Science & Industry

I trained scanning skills before the change too, and, you know what?

The scanning change was probably one of the single biggest gameplay improvements to date. They took a system that was an obnoxious novelty and turned it into a real profession.

well... it was a good one indeed... not quite the biggest but it was actually an essential improvement to exploring mechanics... and i've never said otherwise... my point is they need to tweak results more carefully not just nerfing old system... my anger was against a nerf puting me after many months of training to run side by side with every 2 months old chars who decided that spawning probes is "fun"... and before you react i will quote from another post i had above:

"...older AND MORE SKILLED players should always have A SMALL advantage... for example a young (2 months old explorer with skills at lvl 4) should be able to find 1/10s. 2/10s and 3/10s plexes in highsec space but should need to have skills at lvl 5 in order to find the 4/10s... if we'd consider datacores aquisition: having the science skills at lvl 4 isnt that hard to aquire - max 2 weeks - and it would grant you a nice +250 RP/day from an R&D agent VS my 300 RP/day... it doesnt sound that bad considering i've wasted at least 3-4 months training time for those extra 50 RP/day... "

They didn't nerf it (exploration), though. They buffed it. They buffed the **** out of it, in fact. And, there is still an advantage to having high scanning skills. Go try to scan down the weakest sigs with **** scanning skills in an unspecialized ship. You can also scan down sites in less time and with fewer scans.

This marginal advantage is COMPLETELY consistent with almost every other system in the game. My combat pilot has near-perfect skills for almost every subcap in the game. Any idiot can get in a raven in a month or two and run the same missions that I can. They won't run them as quickly, but they will be able to do it.

My manufacturer has near-perfect invention skills. Anyone can start doing invention, and, with level 4s in the encryption and datacore skills - which is about 17.7% of the skillpoints I've sunk into it for 5s - they will enjoy ~95% (and this is an actual, calculated value, not a number pulled from nothing) of my base success rate.

The trouble for you seems to be that, in buffing exploration, they ruined its exclusivity. Still a buff to exploration, just a nerf to your ego. That's a personal problem, not a game design problem.


If nothing else, I would appreciate it if you guys would stop referring to this as an "industry" nerf, because it ******* isn't. It's a research agent nerf, which is a pretty small portion of industry as a whole.

I'm an industrialist. This will have absolutely ZERO negative impact on me. It will be neutral, at worst. I might even see a small benefit. Despite having all of the requisite skills trained to five (except for research project management), I have never bothered with research agents. The value was too minimal to justify the effort. So, for me, this change will mean the following:

1. Datacore prices will change. They will probably fluctuate a bit at first, but I'm reasonably certain that, long term, they're going to settle in at a lower price than they were a month ago (before the speculation began). This doesn't really matter to me. If the price goes up, that additional cost will be passed onto consumers. No skin off my back. If the price comes down, that additional savings will be passed onto consumers. Again, I come out unscathed.

2. More inventors will have to buy datacores. This is actually pretty sweet for me. I already buy all of mine, so no change there for me. Having to buy datacores, though, will force other inventors to understand that they have an independent value (and cost) and ameliorate inappropriately low margins due to the datacores-I-harvest-myself-are-free effect. I don't expect this to be a huge change, but it can't hurt.

3. While it's really only tangentially related, hopefully the FW changes will yield increased pewpew. Explosions are always good for my bottom line.

4. At least a few sadsack industry bears are obviously going to ragequit, if not the game, then at least industry, because, like, ohmigosh ceeceepee is, like, sooooo unfair and hates industry! Fewer producers = lower demand for datacores and, also, lower supply of finished goods. This is good for me.

So, on the whole, I would not call this a nerf to industry. It's a nerf to a small portion of industry, with fringe benefits that far outweigh it.

I still don't like the concept of tying FW to invention because it makes poor IC sense, but this is certainly not going to harm me financially.

This, I fully agree with. Killing the passive income is all well and good, but the association with faction war is bizarre and forced.

The FW mechanics changes and LP schedule changes alone would have done that.

I still have a pretty easy time finding "worthy" sigs, and it probably takes me less time than it did under the old initiate scan -> go do taxes, read War & Peace in original Russian, learn to juggle chainsaws, come back, rinse, repeat system. If you know how to use DSPs it's a breeze.

Re: missions - AE is a particularly lengthy mission. When you average it out over all of the missions, including the easily blitzable ones, that "2x efficiency" drops substantially.

I'm sorry you feel you "wasted" your training time because you don't know how to find good sigs now. The scanning skills are still objectively immensely useful for both PvE and PvP so, again: Personal problem.

As for the research skills, same story, really. Do invention. Those skills have a purpose beyond what you're using them for. A much better purpose, at that.

Datacore farming is very easy. People just dont like training up to that point.

I used to run level 4 missions, i got high standings, and decided to train RPM, now i have 5 Datacore agents! I dont invent anymore, but that doesnt make it easy.

Datacores were Moons on a personal level, and they cant be attacked! Thats why they are being changed!!!

So CCP have never changed ships or mods? Lets see what I can remember (in not particular order); stacking penalty, AoE Torps, multiple propulsion mods (4 MWD Raven 4TW), HAM Ranges, Remote AoE DD, AoE DD, Super Cap HP, Siege/Triage timers, ship hull HP boosts, Focused DD (not able to hit subcaps), Titan XL Gun Tracking, Nano Nerf, Nos Nerf, T2 Ammo drawbacks, Hybrid buffs, Web Nerfs, Projectile buff, Rigs sizes, invention (removal of the lottery), Faction Ship Rebalance, Scram change, ECM Nerf (or Falcon Nerf). The list could go on and this isn't counting things like Sov Changes (which have happened a few times). Some of these changes are small, some are massive, but all have changed the rules and some in a very significant way. The rules change all the time, if they hadn't changed the rules Eve would have most likely have died for just been an extremely niche game with only a few thousand players.

What they are doing is changing something that affects YOUR game play in a significant way, there are many out there that this change will not alter their game play at all, in fact there are probably some that will not even know that the change has happened.

Honestly, if this is the only reason you play Eve then you are missing out on one of the best MMO's that has been made as there is a lot more out there that you are not experiencing. It wasn't a particularly good way to make isk (I can make more doing invention in a week with the same number of chars as you are using than you do in a month and I use the same skills) but it was totally risk free. Yes you had to put time into it and some money but once you have it going its doesn't cost you anything really to keep receiving datacores from.

Until the patch hits and the market settles we wont know how much it will affect the datacore market and until that time just keep collecting your risk free isk...

Sigh.

Datacores, Datacores, FW, Datacores, Loot drops, Drone regions nerf, New Mods, New Inventory UI, upending of the Mercenary 'Ally' System....and more Datacores and FW. AAARRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!


All I have to say is that after taking a look at the new Inventory UI on Day One on Sisi and bashing my head (along with hundreds of others) against the Brick Wall of Devs until now,.......and it is STILL going to slap the sillies into the 85%, who do not go to Sisi or read the Forums, this Tuesday Morning.

Personally, I just don't think CCP has any idea of what they are really wanting to do anymore. It all just smacks of randomness, with employees and devs doing busywork instead of developing MIND-BLOWING THINGS like Wormholes.

It's sad we are REDUCED to nit-picking about F'ing Datacores. God help us all.

And I pay 15 a month for that ? No thanks. It's not even worth a Dime.

well in real life tech has always leapt forward during wartime... look at medical advances in regards to when the countries who made them were in warso it does make some sense that a navy would begin to dish out tech that they have been working on