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A Nerf to Datacores....The CCP mistake

Author
Tadeo Musashy
Doomheim
#61 - 2012-05-21 02:06:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tadeo Musashy
beor oranes wrote:

"... in not particular order; stacking penalty, AoE Torps, multiple propulsion mods (4 MWD Raven 4TW), HAM Ranges, Remote AoE DD, AoE DD, Super Cap HP, Siege/Triage timers, ship hull HP boosts, Focused DD (not able to hit subcaps), Titan XL Gun Tracking, Nano Nerf, Nos Nerf, T2 Ammo drawbacks, Hybrid buffs, Web Nerfs, Projectile buff, Rigs sizes, invention (removal of the lottery), Faction Ship Rebalance, Scram change, ECM Nerf (or Falcon Nerf).... Some of these changes are small, some are massive... The rules change all the time, ...

1st - most of those changes you mentioned were actually mods/items nerfs while if we consider exploration and R&D agents we are talking about a WHOLE system nerf...
2nd - still, that doesnt change the obvious fact that altering rules in the midle of the game is unfair... and i still belive it would be fair to have a compensation* offered - a "recover the SPs compensation" see below for details...

beor oranes wrote:
... there is a lot more out there that you are not experiencing. It wasn't a particularly good way to make isk (I can make more doing invention in a week with the same number of chars as you are using than you do in a month and I use the same skills) but it was totally risk free. Yes you had to put time into it and some money but once you have it going its doesn't cost you anything really to keep receiving datacores from.
Until the patch hits and the market settles we wont know how much it will affect the datacore market and until that time just keep collecting your risk free isk...

actually i dont give a rats ^^^ on those "free isk" - i've never touched my RPs and most likely i never will... i AM doing invention & manufacturing and most of the other aspects of eve (except piracy... bahhh)... more: i've never "farmed" for isks in any way - i've never had alts to fund my gameplay... that being said i'll point again: my whole "argument" is just a matter of principle...


beor oranes wrote:
Tadeo Musashy wrote:
changing rules in the midle of the game is wrong... even if, i agree, some changes are absolutelly necesary, for that case some kind of compensation should at least be offered...


How much? 100mil a char? 1bil a char? All your skills back? Additional game time for the time you 'wasted' doing the grinding?


to answer your question (if it was indeed a question): i will quote here something i've allready posted (earlier):
... for the research agent / "passive income" mechanics nerf : i've made my decision folowing the rules in place at that spec moment and "wasted" precious training time in the proccess... i can understamd there may be reasons for CHANGES and sure thing i would adapt any new "system"... but i would also expect at least the courtesy to have the option to reallocate the SPs one could consider "wasted" because of the changes - thats not a whinne but a resonable and documented expectation... and above all it would cost nothing at all, neither for the developer or the community...
...
(as a sidenote: i'm 99.9% sure i wouldnt reallocate those SP even if option would be available - still... i consider it is a matter of fairness from ccp to offer the option)

care about having POLLs available in forum threads? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=115634&find=unread

RonPaul Rox
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2012-05-22 19:27:00 UTC
I bet 99% of the people defending the datacore nerf are T2 BPO holders. Their profit margins are about to get even fatter

http://imgur.com/EGjYLSL

Haulie Berry
#63 - 2012-05-22 19:56:13 UTC
RonPaul Rox wrote:
I bet 99% of the people defending the datacore nerf are T2 BPO holders. Their profit margins are about to get even fatter



I would like to see the math behind this assertion.

I could use a good laugh.
AngelFood
#64 - 2012-05-23 05:21:04 UTC
Just give me my skill points back! Vets have been nerfed like this many many times, more and more i consider scrapping all my old chars and starting again considering all the skills I don't use after changes like this.
Redeem my!
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
#65 - 2012-05-23 06:26:42 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
I could use a good laugh.


I would give "black adder" a go if i you havent seen it, a bit old, but better than the Simpsons.
ReiAnn
Nova-Tek
#66 - 2012-05-24 00:47:09 UTC  |  Edited by: ReiAnn
What I dont get is...

if mining with guns is a BAD idea....

how is researching with guns any better?

You want to make it more interactive awesome.

1. You could have forced players to ACTUALLY run research missions.
2. Put a limit on how long R&D runs like PI.
3. Or both!

But tying it to FW?

You could have altered the RP generation increase and decrease with how well the faction is doing. Thus giving researchers a actual reason to involve themselves with FW.

~Additional thought~

Right now I'm hearing and agreeing with the general statement --------- "You nerfed my ******* game and I still don't give a rats ass about FW."

When I should be hearing and saying ----------- "Wow, I can get better access by helping the FW cause. I think I might help my racial buddies out by getting a noob ship and joining a roam."
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2012-05-24 01:45:45 UTC
I started EvE when in college as a mode of stress reduction. I could mine semi-afk, make some corresponding gains, buy shiny stuff in concert with my in-game income, all while doing homework and staying productive during my education.

I chose to grind R&D rep specifically to get a passive income stream. I trained all those skills and prerequisites as a priority, when I could have been training pew-pew skillz for the active glory.

Now I find, that due to a managerial decision, passiive incomes suck, and all those who played the game intelligently as it was designed, are gonna get hammered in the passive income department.

Now that I have gainful employment after college, I find that I have less time to play, not more, as I envisioned during my college experience.

With even more time devoted to my career, and less time for gaming, this nerf is particularly cutting.

Dare I tell the Devs to go fork themselves? No. I won't. I will only say that there are many people who have adapted to the EvE environment in many ways, and I do not understand why CCP has selected some for enhancement, and others, via our intelligent choices based upon game mechanics, to be marginalized.

This is NOT a sandbox. This is fascism in which the people in control determine the outcome via biased social engineering. And the minute the realization is made that the game is not fair, and actually rigged at the whim of the Devs/CCP Management, is the minute you have to realize that the sandbox is not governed by the players as advertised.

I think I'm insane. All I really wanted to say was: give us back our passive income stream !!!
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#68 - 2012-05-24 19:36:29 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
I started EvE when in college as a mode of stress reduction. I could mine semi-afk, make some corresponding gains, buy shiny stuff in concert with my in-game income, all while doing homework and staying productive during my education.

I chose to grind R&D rep specifically to get a passive income stream. I trained all those skills and prerequisites as a priority, when I could have been training pew-pew skillz for the active glory.

Now I find, that due to a managerial decision, passiive incomes suck, and all those who played the game intelligently as it was designed, are gonna get hammered in the passive income department.

Now that I have gainful employment after college, I find that I have less time to play, not more, as I envisioned during my college experience.

With even more time devoted to my career, and less time for gaming, this nerf is particularly cutting.

Dare I tell the Devs to go fork themselves? No. I won't. I will only say that there are many people who have adapted to the EvE environment in many ways, and I do not understand why CCP has selected some for enhancement, and others, via our intelligent choices based upon game mechanics, to be marginalized.

This is NOT a sandbox. This is fascism in which the people in control determine the outcome via biased social engineering. And the minute the realization is made that the game is not fair, and actually rigged at the whim of the Devs/CCP Management, is the minute you have to realize that the sandbox is not governed by the players as advertised.

I think I'm insane. All I really wanted to say was: give us back our passive income stream !!!


Let's reward people that actually play the game, not AFK players. Their should be ZERO passive income in EvE Online.

The Tears Must Flow

Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#69 - 2012-05-24 19:48:52 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:


This is NOT a sandbox. This is fascism in which the people in control determine the outcome via biased social engineering. And the minute the realization is made that the game is not fair, and actually rigged at the whim of the Devs/CCP Management, is the minute you have to realize that the sandbox is not governed by the players as advertised.

I think I'm insane. All I really wanted to say was: give us back our passive income stream !!!


No you are not insane. Unless I am.

The game, it's mechanics and rules, is utterly changed from a little over 2 years ago when I started. The ISK Guide 3.0 reads like an ancient text now (even the module names in it don't match a THING now).

I'm left sitting in a box with NO SAND in sight. THAT's the better metaphor I feel.

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900

Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#70 - 2012-05-24 19:50:02 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:


Let's reward people that actually play the game, not AFK players. Their should be ZERO passive income in EvE Online.



You go get 'em Big Boy. THAT's the Sandbox Spirit Alive and Well.

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900

Scoto Timta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2012-05-24 20:43:59 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Let's reward people that actually play the game, not AFK players. Their should be ZERO passive income in EvE Online.

Hear, Hear!!
1) Skillpoint accumulation stops while you are offline.
2) PI extractors turn off when you log out.
3) Manufacturing/Invention/Research/Copy/Refining/etc jobs stop unless you are logged in and present in the station or within 100k of the POS array/lab.
4) Moon mining stops when the character that started it goes offline.
5) Your market orders are not visible to others while you are offline.
6) Maybe even your POS goes offline if nobody from corp is logged in.

I'm sure we can come up with some more. After all, every one of those is just like research points and datacores... You have to train skills and/or gather materials and/or set things up and then start the process, then after that they happen "passively", and most of them provide income. So I'm sure that's what you meant, right? Roll

We want EvE to exclusively reward grinding, not intelligent decisions or choices.
Marcus McTavish
Volcel Police
#72 - 2012-05-24 21:22:06 UTC
Scoto Timta wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Let's reward people that actually play the game, not AFK players. Their should be ZERO passive income in EvE Online.

Hear, Hear!!
1) Skillpoint accumulation stops while you are offline.
2) PI extractors turn off when you log out.
3) Manufacturing/Invention/Research/Copy/Refining/etc jobs stop unless you are logged in and present in the station or within 100k of the POS array/lab.
4) Moon mining stops when the character that started it goes offline.
5) Your market orders are not visible to others while you are offline.
6) Maybe even your POS goes offline if nobody from corp is logged in.

I'm sure we can come up with some more. After all, every one of those is just like research points and datacores... You have to train skills and/or gather materials and/or set things up and then start the process, then after that they happen "passively", and most of them provide income. So I'm sure that's what you meant, right? Roll

We want EvE to exclusively reward grinding, not intelligent decisions or choices.


1. Thats not income, idiot!
2. The click fest is the active part, as in most all of EVE.
3. Read Nb 2, and its still not passive.
4. Moon mining is Corporate, if not alliance. But it is the closest thing you have got to passive.
5. Read 2!
6. Read all the above!!!

Moon mining is the only thing that could be considered to be even slightly passive, but Moons must be defended! and there is danger in it.

Datacores are in highsec, in npc stations and cant be touched by anyone but you.

Passive Income = Undeserved Welfare
Active Income = Work

If you still dont see the logic, then consider a lobotomy or try thinking! If still no, never post again.
Tadeo Musashy
Doomheim
#73 - 2012-05-24 22:56:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tadeo Musashy
Marcus McTavish wrote:
Scoto Timta wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Let's reward people that actually play the game, not AFK players. Their should be ZERO passive income in EvE Online.

Hear, Hear!!
1) Skillpoint accumulation stops while you are offline.
2) PI extractors turn off when you log out.
3) Manufacturing/Invention/Research/Copy/Refining/etc jobs stop unless you are logged in and present in the station or within 100k of the POS array/lab.
4) Moon mining stops when the character that started it goes offline.
5) Your market orders are not visible to others while you are offline.
6) Maybe even your POS goes offline if nobody from corp is logged in.

I'm sure we can come up with some more. After all, every one of those is just like research points and datacores... You have to train skills and/or gather materials and/or set things up and then start the process, then after that they happen "passively", and most of them provide income. So I'm sure that's what you meant, right? Roll

We want EvE to exclusively reward grinding, not intelligent decisions or choices.


1. Thats not income, idiot!
2. The click fest is the active part, as in most all of EVE.
3. Read Nb 2, and its still not passive.
4. Moon mining is Corporate, if not alliance. But it is the closest thing you have got to passive.
5. Read 2!
6. Read all the above!!!

Moon mining is the only thing that could be considered to be even slightly passive, but Moons must be defended! and there is danger in it.

Datacores are in highsec, in npc stations and cant be touched by anyone but you.

Passive Income = Undeserved Welfare
Active Income = Work

If you still dont see the logic, then consider a lobotomy or try thinking! If still no, never post again.


1st of all i'd reff the word "idiot" - well, go figure not all of us are polishing out brains to get them flat and shiny as some have...
2nd: here's another "idiot" who dares have a different oppinion... so dont be shy, unleash the dogs ... give us all some of your awesomness ... after all this is the internet: - behind miles of cable, many of us suddently find their vocabulary also includes words like "idiot"... so:

1. If skillpoints are not income i may be interested to buy your char for 2 isks BO... for now i'm only beting 1 isk - i have to see the skillsheet before going further... i'm just an "idiot", remember? therefore i could get overwhelmet by your char develpment plan and being unable to understand your superior "vision" i may not be willing to offer the whole 2 isks...
2. so the click fest only applys for the issues YOU have knoledge of... well... obviously YOU dont have the slightest ideea about the amount of game "clicks" needed to set up a R&D agent... not to mention the brain "clicks" needed to decide it would worth to have an R&D agent...
3-4-5-6... and so on... useless to argue ("argue" like in "argument")

i have the feeling your wow char is uncomfortable lonely latelly, isnt it?

and again i have to point i can fully understand there may be reasons for CHANGES and sure thing most of us would adapt any new "system"... but i would also expect at least the courtesy to have the option to reallocate the SPs one could consider "wasted" because of the changes - thats not a whinne but a resonable and documented expectation... and above all it would cost nothing at all, neither for the developer or the community...

care about having POLLs available in forum threads? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=115634&find=unread

Haulie Berry
#74 - 2012-05-24 23:56:50 UTC
Tadeo Musashy wrote:
Marcus McTavish wrote:
Scoto Timta wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Let's reward people that actually play the game, not AFK players. Their should be ZERO passive income in EvE Online.

Hear, Hear!!
1) Skillpoint accumulation stops while you are offline.
2) PI extractors turn off when you log out.
3) Manufacturing/Invention/Research/Copy/Refining/etc jobs stop unless you are logged in and present in the station or within 100k of the POS array/lab.
4) Moon mining stops when the character that started it goes offline.
5) Your market orders are not visible to others while you are offline.
6) Maybe even your POS goes offline if nobody from corp is logged in.

I'm sure we can come up with some more. After all, every one of those is just like research points and datacores... You have to train skills and/or gather materials and/or set things up and then start the process, then after that they happen "passively", and most of them provide income. So I'm sure that's what you meant, right? Roll

We want EvE to exclusively reward grinding, not intelligent decisions or choices.


1. Thats not income, idiot!
2. The click fest is the active part, as in most all of EVE.
3. Read Nb 2, and its still not passive.
4. Moon mining is Corporate, if not alliance. But it is the closest thing you have got to passive.
5. Read 2!
6. Read all the above!!!

Moon mining is the only thing that could be considered to be even slightly passive, but Moons must be defended! and there is danger in it.

Datacores are in highsec, in npc stations and cant be touched by anyone but you.

Passive Income = Undeserved Welfare
Active Income = Work

If you still dont see the logic, then consider a lobotomy or try thinking! If still no, never post again.


1st of all i'd reff the word "idiot" - well, go figure not all of us are polishing out brains to get them flat and shiny as some have...
2nd: here's another "idiot" who dares have a different oppinion... so dont be shy, unleash the dogs ... give us all some of your awesomness ... after all this is the internet: - behind miles of cable, many of us suddently find their vocabulary also includes words like "idiot"... so:

1. If skillpoints are not income i may be interested to buy your char for 2 isks BO... for now i'm only beting 1 isk - i have to see the skillsheet before going further... i'm just an "idiot", remember? therefore i could get overwhelmet by your char develpment plan and being unable to understand your superior "vision" i may not be willing to offer the whole 2 isks...
2. so the click fest only applys for the issues YOU have knoledge of... well... obviously YOU dont have the slightest ideea about the amount of game "clicks" needed to set up a R&D agent... not to mention the brain "clicks" needed to decide it would worth to have an R&D agent...
3-4-5-6... and so on... useless to argue ("argue" like in "argument")

i have the feeling your wow char is uncomfortable lonely latelly, isnt it?

and again i have to point i can fully understand there may be reasons for CHANGES and sure thing most of us would adapt any new "system"... but i would also expect at least the courtesy to have the option to reallocate the SPs one could consider "wasted" because of the changes - thats not a whinne but a resonable and documented expectation... and above all it would cost nothing at all, neither for the developer or the community...


This is silly. They're not going to start refunding SP every time they have to tweak a skill. The skills are still useful. They're less useful for a particular purpose, but that's a personal problem, not a systemic one.

On the whole, this patch was a pretty big buff to industry, IMO. The change to decryptors is huge and with respect to industry as a whole, far outweighs anything they did to datacores.
Scoto Timta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2012-05-25 06:00:48 UTC
Marcus McTavish wrote:

1. Thats not income, idiot!
2. The click fest is the active part, as in most all of EVE.
3. Read Nb 2, and its still not passive.
4. Moon mining is Corporate, if not alliance. But it is the closest thing you have got to passive.
5. Read 2!
6. Read all the above!!!

Moon mining is the only thing that could be considered to be even slightly passive, but Moons must be defended! and there is danger in it.

Datacores are in highsec, in npc stations and cant be touched by anyone but you.

Passive Income = Undeserved Welfare
Active Income = Work

If you still dont see the logic, then consider a lobotomy or try thinking! If still no, never post again.

LOL. I do see the logic, and I completely agree that R&D agents are probably the *most* passive source of income in the game. However, they are not *completely* passive, which is what a number of people seem to keep saying. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there are many aspects of this game that are passive to one degree or another. The post I was responding to said that there should be zero income for anything passive. I was listing things that reward you, in one way or another, in the same "passive" way that R&D agents do.
I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek, and illustrating my point by a degree of exaggeration. I obviously don't think that any of those things I listed should actually be done. Sorry if that was not obvious.

However...

1) I'll agree with you that SP is not "income" in the strictest sense. But it IS a reward. And the more intelligently you set yourself up (choosing to use attribute implants, strategic remaps, etc) the more SP you earn and the more income you can potentially make due to your improved in-game abilities. (Kinda like choosing good R&D agents, grinding the standings and researching the right datacores.) And note that I said MOST (not ALL) of the things I mentioned were income.

2&3) Click-fest is active. Yep. But you can choose to do PI in a way that minimizes the clicking. How many clicks qualifies something as active versus passive? At least once per day? I don't do clicks every day for my PI colonies due to the cycle time I have chosen. And restarting extractors is now fairly minimal clicking. The majority of the work for PI is the initial setup and hauling the stuff. Kinda sounds similar to R&D agents to me. Same with manufacturing/invention/etc. I click several times to set up the job, then let it crank PASSIVELY while I do other things. Hopefully you can see the parallels between these "activities".

4) I don't see why it matters whether the activity is corporate or individual. People keep saying that there should be no reward for passive activity. You are absolutely correct that defending the station is not passive. Nor is transporting the moon goo. Nor is transporting datacores to market (albeit likely safer than nullsec transport).

5&6) I was intentionally stretching the "passive" definition to the absurd. He said to reward active players only, so I was "implementing" his suggestion.

You say passive income = undeserved welfare. Does that apply to RL, too? For example, bank savings accounts?
Tadeo Musashy
Doomheim
#76 - 2012-05-25 07:07:00 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
Tadeo Musashy wrote:

and again i have to point i can fully understand there may be reasons for CHANGES and sure thing most of us would adapt any new "system"... but i would also expect at least the courtesy to have the option to reallocate the SPs one could consider "wasted" because of the changes - thats not a whinne but a resonable and documented expectation... and above all it would cost nothing at all, neither for the developer or the community...


This is silly. They're not going to start refunding SP every time they have to tweak a skill. The skills are still useful. They're less useful for a particular purpose, but that's a personal problem, not a systemic one.

On the whole, this patch was a pretty big buff to industry, IMO. The change to decryptors is huge and with respect to industry as a whole, far outweighs anything they did to datacores.


cuting down 50% datacores income isnt "tweaking"...
reducing probe scan base time from 480 secs to 12 secs isnt "tweaking"...
thats chopping!!!

What (tf) is so hard to understand?
Assuming ppl really WANT to understand (which i begin to doubt), lets make it easier by moving the issue inta a RL practical example - even if it isnt the most accurate example the basic "ideea" still stands:
lets say you go the the nearby store and buy yourself a nice and shiny new home cinema system to replace your old and dusty VCR ... so, you gather all the info you can get your hands on, study the market, compare the specs, listen to the seller praising the product, see with your own eyes and finally you decide its a good purchase... then you read carefully the user manual, check the guarantee certificate, you pay the price, follow all the handling and working instructions - in one word you check, understand, agree and obey all the infos and rules in place - get the system to your livingroom and enjoy the full benefits on the marvelous product... BUT after some (great) time here comes the manufacturer (or seller) installing a new bios (software) which turns the video system into an ordinary black & white one instead of the great colour, full HD one...
given the circumstancer would you say: "its great, i can still watch movies, or would you scream "refund"!!!??????

care about having POLLs available in forum threads? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=115634&find=unread

Tadeo Musashy
Doomheim
#77 - 2012-05-25 07:27:27 UTC
and by the way:

Marcus McTavish wrote:

Passive Income = Undeserved Welfare
Active Income = Work


as long as the eve monthly subscription has the same price for both the active and the pasive player theres no such thing as "undeserved welfare"
just like IRL: some are happy with being paid 5000 $/month for active (hard)working but others may preffer to passively live doing (almost) nothing with a 2000 $/month rent income... as long as both are paying the taxes (therfore folowing the rules) both are honorable citizens...

care about having POLLs available in forum threads? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=115634&find=unread

Serina Tsukaya
Dropbears Anonymous
Brave Collective
#78 - 2012-05-25 10:14:05 UTC
It makes sense to have datacores being sold in faction spesific stores. I'm assuming that you won't be able to buy cores needed for every races invention from a single faction, and they therefore have made it dependant on what faction you pick. Rewarding excellence in combat with technology isn't exactly something mindblowingly difficult to understand. Knowledge is power after all.

Doing the daily research point missions should also help make this less of a passive and more of a "the more you invest the more you get" kinda deal. Once again: The skills needed to obtain the data cores are also required to make the ships that the inventioned bpc's are for, your skills aren't going to waste as long as you were doing that aswell. Grinding up standings soley for the research agents doesn't mean you weren't rewarded along the way. I'm pretty sure you had bounties/ mission rewards in those missions as you grinded, and it's the same for everyone, whether they want the standing for Research agents or for level 4 missions.

The game needs more isk sinks, so by having to pay in both lp stores and at research agents, you remove money from the game. Inflation is rather bad atm.

They make these changes because they think that it'll make the game better, more balanced, more interactive, and more addictive. They often screw up, but the fact that eve is 9 years old means that they don't screw up too often.



Also, Tadeo, your real life comparison attempt has already happened: Playstation 3
Haulie Berry
#79 - 2012-05-25 14:44:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
Tadeo Musashy wrote:


cuting down 50% datacores income isnt "tweaking"...
reducing probe scan base time from 480 secs to 12 secs isnt "tweaking"...
thats chopping!!!


Lol. "They buffed the **** out of probing, I WANT MY PROBING SKILLPOINTS BACK!"

Holy ****, you have entitlement issues.

Quote:

What (tf) is so hard to understand?
Assuming ppl really WANT to understand (which i begin to doubt), lets make it easier by moving the issue inta a RL practical example - even if it isnt the most accurate example the basic "ideea" still stands:
lets say you go the the nearby store and buy yourself a nice and shiny new home cinema system to replace your old and dusty VCR ... so, you gather all the info you can get your hands on, study the market, compare the specs, listen to the seller praising the product, see with your own eyes and finally you decide its a good purchase... then you read carefully the user manual, check the guarantee certificate, you pay the price, follow all the handling and working instructions - in one word you check, understand, agree and obey all the infos and rules in place - get the system to your livingroom and enjoy the full benefits on the marvelous product... BUT after some (great) time here comes the manufacturer (or seller) installing a new bios (software) which turns the video system into an ordinary black & white one instead of the great colour, full HD one...
given the circumstancer would you say: "its great, i can still watch movies, or would you scream "refund"!!!??????


The basic "idea" doesn't hold because that is a product that you wholly own - it is not a part of an integral system of a virtual universe inhabited by hundreds of thousands of other people. Their concern in making game changes is the welfare of the game as a whole - not the welfare of Tadeo Musashy as an individual.

Should incursion runners have all of their investments into incursion running refunded because incursions were nerfed?
Should anyone who trained for nano have theirs refunded, too?
Should bomber pilots have their SP refunded if they don't like the new bomber model? What about the change from cruise missiles to torps?
Should rifter pilots have all of their minmatar frigate SPs refunded because the Incursus, Merlin, and Punisher are now much better than they were a week ago?

You don't deserve compensation every time a game change adversely affects you. That is never going to happen. I'm sure whining like this was a major concern of theirs when they first introduced the ability to refund SPs. The management overhead alone would make it completely infeasible, and on top of that, the end result would be everyone shifting masses off skillpoints from one flavor of the month to the next every time something was rebalanced. It would pretty clearly be to the detriment of the game as a whole.

All that aside, gutting research agents still leaves the primary function of every skill except research project management entirely intact. Coupled with the decryptor change, it's actually a net benefit. It's like CCP stole a nickel from you and gave you a C-note in return, and you're ceaselessly crying about that nickel instead of pocketing the $99.95.
Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#80 - 2012-05-25 14:54:08 UTC
Since when is RL research and development (outside the military) done with weapons ?

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900