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How do you pay corp mates for ops?
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Radelix Cisko
JUMP DRIVE ACTIVE
#1 - 2012-05-09 23:19:52 UTC
My corp has moved into a hole and we have expanded our ranks since moving in. We have various members on at various times due to members being based in either US Pacific time and US Eastern time (3 hour difference and half the people have full time jobs).

When it was my original crew which I work with most of them in RL we would run an op and I would run it out to a trade hub, sell, and split the sale less POS expenses. With the addition of the new members there have been issues of the corp not getting the cut it needs to stay running since corpies are not delivering the cut to the corp wallet.

So I ask how do you handle corp costs and payment to the corp members for ops?

Despite my posting prowess I really am terrible at this game
Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-05-09 23:24:56 UTC
The only way is for your members to be fair to the corporation.

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
Frothgar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-05-09 23:29:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Frothgar
To be honest, if you're going to live in a wormhole in any appreciable scale the corp's wallet will likely be fairly massive fairly quick.

Many corps will often hold the salvage/loot in a secure hanger and immediately cash out the participants at a high rate. Even of their tax is 5% (Anything highter than this would be probably be gouging members due to the high amount of cashflow for any operation of appreciable size)

Even with "only" a 5% corp take, your corp won't have any trouble fueling a corp POS and maintaining a healthy balance to do a cash out. If the corp wallet gets too huge, I'd encourage a T3 battlecruiser freebie program (They're fun to fly, but too large to steal mass quantities of them)

A healthy wallet means you can easily cash out corpmates, but a gluttonous one makes you very vulnerable to theft. If the corp members wallets become and stay bigger than the corp wallet, there is less incentive to steal ;)

Another way of doing it would be to have a fairly wealthy member cash out the others and keep the salvage in a secure hanger.

100% is counter productive due to market tax and lessens the incentive when one person say splits a site 10 ways, and then pays everyone's market tax but takes only a 10% share. They would potentially loose a more significant portion of their share to market tax.

The main way to keep people happy is have good director coverage with people you can trust, and to cash people out immediately and provide corp incentives with extra money.
Radelix Cisko
JUMP DRIVE ACTIVE
#4 - 2012-05-09 23:34:19 UTC
A secure CHA division only accessible to myself and directors was the idea I was going to run with for salvage and expensive goodies.

So to recap:

Take loot
Cash out corpies
Haul loot to trade hub
Profit

Despite my posting prowess I really am terrible at this game
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#5 - 2012-05-10 03:49:28 UTC
1. PVP
2. Ransom
3. Kick Percentage to Corp
4. XXXXXX
5. PROFIT!

Or you could run sites and kicka percentage to corp, or just declare monthly "dues" to the members that live there. I don't know, since I just follow my initial advice ;)

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Frau Leinsmarch
Mimics
#6 - 2012-05-10 03:58:43 UTC
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
1. PVP
2. Ransom
3. Kick Percentage to Corp
4. XXXXXX
5. PROFIT!

Or you could run sites and kicka percentage to corp, or just declare monthly "dues" to the members that live there. I don't know, since I just follow my initial advice ;)



hmmm depends on the targets you hit, TBH you can make more through pve than ransoms.

Although a large aliance or corp may need to do ransoms due to lack of plexing resources.
Dorn Val
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-05-10 06:29:43 UTC
In our corp the loot is held by a director, and he keeps track of who was on the op. Once the loot is sold everyone gets paid a cut, and we have decided to give the corp a cut as well (so if 9 peeps were on an op the split would be 10 ways). We also run occasional ops just for the corp wallet. Our biggest problem with generating corp revenue is that we'd rather PVP, so sometimes we have to force ourselves to carebear for POS fuel :)

Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate...
TomyLobo
U2EZ
#8 - 2012-05-10 06:34:01 UTC
You'll need spreadsheets and directors whose duty is to calculate how much is made and figure out how much each person receives - mostly depending on the number of sites each person runs. As for tax, it's easier to deduct it from the total before making payments.
Sandslinger
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-05-10 06:52:04 UTC
How to physically count it out : Create a igb application that does it for you. Spreadsheets till burn your directors out if you become too large.

As to timing : It's fine wanting to pay everyone out immediatly and such but your directors will burn the f out if you do that every day for every site, especially as you grow.

As to tax rate : someone telling you what percentage to use is a bit silly imo. percentage all depends on what your corp is actually aiming to do. And also how much pve it does.

Fairly obvious that your corp wallet needs to have a buffer to meet the demand of incoming players. you also need to have a spare buffer for times when your unable to get the product out for sale.

Guessing your a pve only unit, this makes it easier i suppose as corp doesn't need to worry bout reimbursements or suchlike.
you will however most likely be kicked out at some point might want to take that into consideration as well.
stup idity
#10 - 2012-05-10 09:13:46 UTC
An easy solution (I never actually tried before):

Each member pays his share to corp-costs at the beginning of the months (or else ...!!!). What they earn and how they share the profit they make remains up to them afterwards.

I am the Herald of all beings that are me.
Mattalious
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-05-10 10:11:02 UTC
We're a tiny corp so we generally don't have this kind of hassle. We just divvy up the loot on the day, and chip in on POS fuel when we need to. Everything else is on an individual basis. There'd be a lot of hassle otherwise when it came to splitting up the income. The only downside being that motivating people to scan can be an issue. It really is the least glorious job in the corp, and it's represented by the sheer amount of podding and poking that sometimes takes place to get people involved.

But then I wouldn't call us an A-typical corp, and more akin to friends who just hang and run sites together. We're about as chilled out as a corp can get, without being catatonic.
Kobodera
Soggy Bottom Balls
#12 - 2012-05-10 11:09:38 UTC
I made a very easy to use web based plexing manager to our corp/alliance. It has seen plenty of use since its introduction :)

Basicly the FC add participants to a fleet (in the manager) and then add plexes as you go along. If someone joins up the FC add them to the fleet, if someone leaves they get removed from the fleet. Each plex is worth a number of points and is devided among the people doing the plex. Guests can be added manually but regulars can also register through the IGB to make it easier for the FC to add them between plexing occations. As the FC you can basicly set the fleet up in a matter of seconds instead of having to write everything down manually.

When its time for payout the person doing the payout enters the value of the sold loot into the manager, set the tax rate and viola. The individual amount of isk going to each pilot based on their participation... and also how much goes to corp as a tax.
7enn
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-05-10 11:22:11 UTC
We use google docs. Put in Date, the guys in the op and the sites run. In the bottom put the rough value of the loot for the op [blue loot + nanos + mag/radar poop]. The google doc calculates the payout and the tax. You sell the loot, the actual payout is calculated and the boys get paid. Add a few fields for tracking where the loot is stored until you move it and who has it. Leave it up for a day or two after you pay it. Rinse repeat. Make multiple instances if need be for different ops.

Keep it SIMPLE and TRANSPARENT. I've suffered under the various points systems. PLEX POINTS SUX. It's easy for directors to skim and they do. The TL points system is a perfect example. I've witnessed how little folks get paid under it. Their payout systems vary from corp to corp and I won't tell you which one skims and which ones don't. Join them and figure it out yourself. [don't get you panties wadded up kobo it's true for one corp and we both know it - afk directors used to make billions]
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-05-10 11:27:07 UTC
Kobodera wrote:
I made a very easy to use web based plexing manager to our corp/alliance. It has seen plenty of use since its introduction :)

Basicly the FC add participants to a fleet (in the manager) and then add plexes as you go along. If someone joins up the FC add them to the fleet, if someone leaves they get removed from the fleet. Each plex is worth a number of points and is devided among the people doing the plex. Guests can be added manually but regulars can also register through the IGB to make it easier for the FC to add them between plexing occations. As the FC you can basicly set the fleet up in a matter of seconds instead of having to write everything down manually.

When its time for payout the person doing the payout enters the value of the sold loot into the manager, set the tax rate and viola. The individual amount of isk going to each pilot based on their participation... and also how much goes to corp as a tax.

i'm reminded of my olden wow days... *dkp nostalgia*

I should buy an Ishtar.
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#15 - 2012-05-10 11:36:07 UTC
For every site that is run there is a fixed amount of tax to pay to the corp. For example, running a c4 anomaly costs 5 million, payable to the corp wallet. How the participating players split the loot and the tax is their business.

This way the only way to cheat the corp is to run sites but not pay the tax. Certainly possible and I'm sure it happens, but unless someone is ratting solo during the night or something, the ratting fleet has to be thieves-only. If only a single member is honest, the others can't cheat.

.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-05-10 12:38:58 UTC
So here is maybe a wrinkle in the mix. When you count the fleet for splits. Do count physical players or toons? Ie if someone is multiboxing 2 accounts do they count as 2 players for splits?

Also if you have a dedicated salvager do they get a full split? I have been places where the noctis didn't count as a full split. IMO however it is just as integral and if the fleet is moving fast enough a salvager can stay just as busy trying to keep up.
Sam Koli
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-05-10 12:50:37 UTC
We normaly split per Player

mostly because of our social mindset

We count the salvager as full, because we clear a site in the Time he salvages.
exept in very small fleets, we cut the split for the salvager.

the only one we never payed really were our scouts, how do you handle this. they don't really have to pay attention, just have to be there and watch a hole.
SojournerRover
Explorer Corps
#18 - 2012-05-10 13:15:32 UTC  |  Edited by: SojournerRover
Take the amount it cost to run the corporation plus a defense fund. Fuel, tower upgrades, any programs the corp has, TS, tracking system, etc.. Divide that by your average amount of members.

Call this a membership dues. Payable at the beginning of the month. This allows you to keep track of who is paying and who is slacking. If they don't pay the dues they get kicked.

Own all of the custom offices in your system and charge a 5% tax. This will be for the extras, roams, ship replacements, prizes etc…. This can add up to decent isk and people like to keep their alts busy.

Do not charge a corporate tax. For one thing there is nothing to tax. I mean really, you live in a WH. (taxing rats in 00 is stupid.) This will make your corporation look good.


As far as loot cans go, Have several trusted members that can run cans to empire. Allow a 3% cut off the top. This will be an incentive to keep the cans rolling. This also allows you to move people up without having to give them director roles. An Attaboy so to speak with a raise.

Everyone gets 1 share. Salvagers, scouts, etc. If you bring an alt you still only get one share, but you do get an attaboy for helping out.

A corporation is only a staging point that needs to be maintained. It does not need to make a profit nor should it.

It is the responsibility of the leadership to create a brand for that corporation and maintain it as a respected part of the WH community. The brand is what is important.

There are several corporations and Alliance's in WH space that have created a brand and when they turn up in your hole you know exactly what that brand stands for.

There are bean counters and there are Brand builders
Which one of these are you?

[b][u]ROVER[/u] (REDRUM)[/b]
7enn
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-05-10 13:49:47 UTC
There are 2 real assets associated with eve. Your subscription fee and the time you put into the game. We pay per player for his time. If anything the noctis should get double. DPS boob locks, hits f1/fire and that target is done. So 2 actions per target. Noctis hero locks, tractors, loots, salvages. That's 2x the 'work' per item processed. DPS can actually go afk and get a drink and come back and no one may ever know - they have the easiest job in pve. Pay the salvagers for more work and the logi and scouts for the real work.
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#20 - 2012-05-10 13:57:52 UTC
7enn wrote:
There are 2 real assets associated with eve. Your subscription fee and the time you put into the game. We pay per player for his time. If anything the noctis should get double. DPS boob locks, hits f1/fire and that target is done. So 2 actions per target. Noctis hero locks, tractors, loots, salvages. That's 2x the 'work' per item processed. DPS can actually go afk and get a drink and come back and no one may ever know - they have the easiest job in pve. Pay the salvagers for more work and the logi and scouts for the real work.


You forgot the risk in your equation, ship price as well as the clone and implant costs. The dps pilots usually risk the most expensive ships. A blown-up noctis can be even bigger ISK-wise, but only a fraction of that belongs to the Noctis pilot.

Also, any newbie can salvage, but not everyone can fly a usable combat ship. As in real life, better qualification should pay better.

This is not even unfair imho because why and for what does a new player need as much ISK as a veteran? He has limited options in terms of ships and stuff to spend his money on. I know of guys who as newbies made billions salvaging in our hole before they were even able to do C1s on their own. I have no problems with that, but I do think it's fairly generous.

.
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