Missions & Complexes

I agree, Darth, Just replying to Simi, This means you lose, This is how us Trolls work, We prey on forums for people like you, We find you cute, We love cuteness.

Reminds me of my days of being a Bronie

Want a cookie? Rainbow Dash has just made some.

Hehe, Herr Ronin, my hero.

But seriously, at a few points in this thread there has been genuine discussion going on. Then Darth comes in and wham, cannot resist troll impulses.

As I said, read through the thread. Most of my comments are constructive and relevant, I am only aggressive with Darth due to the nature of his posts.

Having said that, the thread has pretty much run it's course, all that is occuring now are the same arguments repeated over and over (Primarily because we keep returning to those arguments thanks to Darth's contributions. Every time they are shot down he waits a page and reposts the same garbage.)

The thread should probably just be locked.

to all those that opposed blitzing, do you feel stupid now?

Is it not maybe time to push the big 'Undo Button' and return incursions to what they were previous to escalation? I think by now it is pretty clear what CCP were trying to achieve with the Incursion changes hasn't been met.

From my point of view the community is dieing now and if pilots don't start returning then there will be no one to thouroughly test any future changes of Incursions in order to get the balance right.

Genuine question, is English your first language? Not hating, just curious.

Anyway, this isn't really "what you predicted" at all. You thought people would up and leave over a buff to war mechanics, no one really cares about the war mechanics except for the fact that the merc marketplace doesn't really exist.

The fact that there was a separate and unrelated issue with a slightly laggy and buggy UI doesn't make your unconnected prediction correct.


Maybe if all of you even tried to discuss genuine fixes, such as Serge's points on the incursion system control bar, then CCP may have been pressured in to implementing a few small tweaks.

Instead, you have generated 18 pages of "double payouts for this", "triple payouts for that" and "revert everything to how it was". This is guaranteed to get ignored, in exactly the same way that people demanding the inventory UI be reverted will be ignored.


Of course it hasn't had a sustained 30k a day, even back when I first started playing Eve before Incarna it never had a sustained 30k. It's always been between ~20k and ~40. IIRC pre-incarna reached 50k on the odd occasion, although I'd have to look at the stats to verify that since it was some time ago.

But even ignoring that fact, eve offline's statistics show no drop in the number of player's online. And as you may have noticed with the UI changes, when large numbers of players kick up a fuss and unsubscribe or voice their complaints CCP respond, and they respond quickly.

The very fact that CCP have not responded with any haste to your pleas for a buff to incursions should tell you that the player response has, on the whole, not been particularly negative. Outside of these threads, which are naturally filled with a disproportionately large demographic of incursion runners, most player's are happy that incursions were finally brought down a peg.

So now perhaps you should consider changing tact. Try and focus on suggesting and promoting changes that would make incursions more fun, or less hassle, again like Serge's proposals. Any requests on your part to bring incursions back up in terms of isk/hour will likely be ignored, because if CCP were to implement them the fallout from the rest of Eve's communities would be devastating.

I agree with you that CCP were expecting the community to adapt and perhaps produce new Blitz fleets and so made vanguards delibertaly challeging with this in mind. However I think they maybe set the bar too high, I say this as I have seen a number of folk leave incursions and various channels have had their numbers drop significantly.

My worry is that by the time they have been tweaked and altered to a place where the balance is right most folk will have moved on to other things. i.e. WHs, mission running, plexing etc.

What do you think?

I agree that incursions are at risk of becoming a niche profession, which is not a good thing, although I think the reason is more due to the isk/hour than to the difficulty of sites.

I will say outright that I believe incursions have been killing exploration, wormholes and null sec for some time. This is not simply because they are easy, it's because of the comparable ISK rewards available with the safety and convenience of high sec. As such I don't think making them easier without increasing the isk/hour would increase their popularity very much.


I think it's a good point, and I agree on the issue, but I disagree on the solution. By all means making them easier would be acceptable, in all honesty PvE risk is somewhat dull and doesn't equate to a meaningful level of ship destruction anyway, but I would never accept buffing them in a way that returned them to low sec, wormhole or null sec profitability.

What I would do in CCP's place is accept that their popularity is going to be variable, and as such lessen the reward difference between the various site classes. I would also alter competition and site spawning to make it variable, probably by tying it to the number of NPCs killed in the last 30 minutes (or number of sites completed) and finally I would have a good long look at the incursion bar as per Serge's suggestions.

Lessening the gap in payouts between the various sites (excluding the MOM, that should probably just be buffed) would allow solo players to farm the scouts when a new incursion forms whilst waiting to join fleets, and to prevent them constantly and exclusively farming the scouts I would probably add a new incentive to move up to the larger fleet sites.

This incentive would probably come in the form of decreasing spawn rates over time for the lower end sites, pushing people up in site classes as the incursion progresses. This, coupled with the variable site competition, would mean there would always be identical competition for sites at all times, whether two fleets are running sites or five (I'd probably give it a maximum limit to site spawns though) and there would also still be a reason to move through all the site classes instead of focusing on one type exclusively.

Anyway, my solution probably wouldn't bring people flooding back to incursions, although changing the incursion bar and, as you suggested, making OTA's safer might help. What it would do is make them scalable for a community of variable size, whereas at the moment they seem designed on the assumption that the community will be of a set size both in terms of the incursion bar and site competition.

Hehe, sorry for the tl;dr btw, procrastination makes me extremely detailed in my posts.

Not at all its good to have a conversation on these forums with different ideas and detailed solutions like your post. I really loved flying incursions and met alot of great folk and I'm just a bit sad to see this feature in its current state.

If ISK inflows are still a big issue for the EVE economy, increase the LP payouts instead of the ISK payout. I do agree that the average payout for sites should be returned to pre-Escalation levels. At the moment incursions are only marginally more profitable than L4 missions; there should never be disincentives to participate in group activities in a multiplayer game.

Please consider significantly revising the Nation Consolidation Network assault site. Splitting a fleet up sounds nice in theory, but near as can tell the general concensus is that such sites are just a "pain in the ass" to run, because they require two FCs, split comms, and take much more effort and time to run for no additional reward.

Also, please check the incursion spawn code. It looks like someone did something silly with it, so that new incursions no longer spawn new sites.