Warfare & Tactics

Wow.

You do realize Hans was pro-reset, despite all of us nasty Minmatar telling him it was stupid and against all precedents CCP had set? You do realize Hans doesn't support the full station lock-out? You do realize Hans isn't the puppet-master at CCP HQ? He can only do so much, haha.

Well, he is definitely pro-long flip times. A lot of people are. It makes sense, at least with the hefty penalty of station lockouts. To my understanding, he was trying to get CCP to reconsider the station lockout but they were dead set on it.

I still think (and a lot of people in Minmatar) that the full lockout is going to be super detrimental to the warzone. I'm personally in favor of denial of station services, but hopefully CCP will be able to get a lot of feedback from the Tranq. server and maybe reconsider the full lockout once it goes live.

Personally I am not in favor of anything that prevents the losing side from putting up a fight. Including station services. Gate fire from stations is fine because that doesn't effect fighting in plexes.

Long flip times just favor the side that can get a blob. Shorter flip times would favor hit and run small gangs. The shorter flip times also brought about more pvp in and around plexes.

Anyway I wrote a seperate thread on this issue with a more detailed analysis of the pros and cons.

Wouldn't shorter flip times mean that neither of the factions would base in the warzone? Both sides would be at an immense risk to having their system flipped while they slept. I see this as discouraging any kind of lowsec-living lifestyle. At least with the longer, drawn out battles for a system you'd be getting a) a chance to fight for your system without having to set alarms or not sleep and b) you'd have a lot more fighting happening in plex every day as each side tries to 1up the other on system capturing/defending progress.

@San Severina aka Honor Accelerando: why are you still mad that Hans (and the rest of AUTOZ) kicked (and don't like) Missy Lorelai because he a) stole from us and b) tried to blackmail us?

... You are insane. /discussion

Its the opposite. I would leave several plexing ships in the war zone if I knew I would have some ability to flip the system and unlock them should the system get flipped when I sleep.

If I knew that if the minmatar completely ignored the plexing for and hour I could then flip the system in that time I wouldn't mind so much having ships locked out. More importantly it would be better if the minmatar reacted within the hour but didn't have time to get their blob together so we might have some decent fights as pilots come rolling in.

Shorter flip times means I would know with a carefully planned attack that I could unlock them again despite being outnumbered overall. In other words I would feel I have some control over my own fortunes.

Now I have no control.




I am not some noob that thinks just because I sign in I will be able to turn the tides on my own. I have been in arzad and my being there doesn't matter. If I run a plex they will show up with 3 different ships to counter my ship. And they weren't noobs that I could fight with those odds. Even if I could manage some sort of surprise atttack it would only work for an hour or 2 at best before the minmatar blob would come. Its not going to work for seven hours let alone forty!


When rkk came and fought for the minmatar there was nothing amarr could really do to prevent them from taking systems - if they chose to do that. (luckilly it didn't matter at the time so they didn't take them all) If a null sec alliance decides for whatever reason to start taking systems they will and the other side won't be able to do anything to stop them in this system with long timers. Why? Because this long flip time system favors the side that can keep the biggest blob focused on a grind the longest. It has nothing to do with small scale pvp. This is null sec lite.


You say longer flip times will lead to longer drawn out battles. No they won't. The battlles won't be any longer than if the flip time was shorter. The button orbitting will be longer and more drawn out. But there will be much less battling per plex.


You assume everyone is going to sign in within 24 hours or something. I may not sign in to protect my space in a 3 or 4 days. Given my family life that is not likely to change. So the idea that I can have "an opportunity to fight for my space" is just foolish and assumes everyone can sign in every 24 hours.

I may not be able to sign in often but it would be nice if I felt I could accomplish something in that time. But now I know I can't whatever side has the bigger blob will just undue whatever I can accomplish.

So why not make sure my side has the bigger blob? Well I am a casual player of this game. I play the game to be a combat pilot not to be in the airforce with an office job as a recruiter.

Maybe those in the big blob mentality will say "I don't want some small group to come and be able to flip a system unless I have several hours to get my big ass fleet ready and drive them off."

I can just say well since the flip times are short for me, they are short for you too. It won't take so long for you to flip it back with your blob so its no big deal. In the mean time people will be having allot more fights when there some sense of urgency. Having a system where one side does not even need to react in the slightest way for 40 hours creates no urgency. Hence no one will come into that system to try to slow down the plexing before they show up with their overwelming force.

Seriously I just want people to think about this issue. Rather than having these posts spread out all over the forums I would prefer that the reasons people give for longer or shorter flip times be posted in the thread I made for that purpose. I realize many people don't think this is a big deal but I really think it is.

Nah, I think insane is about right. There's nothing any CSM member can do to force CCP to do or not do if they set their mind on it.

After the winners and losers shake out a bit ccp is asking people this question: Do you want more money or less money?

Am I suppose to be excited to find out how players will answer this question?

The only thing that needs to play out is which side is going to be the winning side or whether some large alliance, will show how great they are, and decide to grind a losing faction to a winning one so they can profit. The mechanics are very well suited for a large null sec alliance to come and do just that. They can easilly quell any opposition just like in sov null sec.

But for each individual player entering faction war the question will be do you want more money or less.

Fearmongering at its best. Reminds me of all the fearmongering people did when CCP introduced Alliances and said that various nullsec alliances would come and ruin the FW sandbox. Puhleeez....

I am not afraid of this happening at all. I like faction war and low sec to remain in a sandbox, and generally I am against things like not allowing supercaps in low sec.

I am just pointing out the proposed mechanics make it easier for a null sec alliance to win this war. I still don't think the benefits are great enough for a null sec alliance to really focus in and do that for any reason other than to just "show how great they are and make some profits." But some alliances will do things, like burn jita, that aren't economic in the short term for publicity reasons that may pay off in the longer term.

Do you think if a large alliance decided to put all their effort into winning an inferno style faction war they wouldn't succeed? Do you think their methods would be much different than the current method of having blobs go grinding one system after another?

What would your strategies be? I can tell you if the flip times were much shorter and I was allowed to dock in the faction war zone I would love to have some large alliance come to fight. Now I wouldn't win, but I would keep fighting and have a great time. So would allot of small gang pvpers. But with the long flip times and no docking rules inferno brings, resistance would be futile.