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Warfare & Tactics

 
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More FW changes on SiSi

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mental maverick
Percussive Diplomacy
Sedition.
#541 - 2012-05-09 23:14:14 UTC
Cearain wrote:
"First, the offer requirements in the respective faction LP store will decrease. As such, at the lowest tier, LP store offers will be 4x times more expensive as they are now, while at the highest tier, they will be 4 times as cheap. This only applies to ISK and LP requirements for offers, not tags or items. It also only counts for the 4 Factional Warfare militia LP stores; no other corporation will be affected."


I think I must have this wrong.

A navy micro auxillary power core now cost 1500 lp.

If I am fighting for a losing faction and therefore have the lowest tier it will be 4xs more expensive or 6000 lp.

If I am fighting for the winning faction and therefore have the highest tier it be "4xs as cheap" or 375 lp.

If that is correct then for the majority of items in the lp store the winning side effectively gets 16xs the lp for a pvp kill.

The losing side would get effectively 1/16 the lp for a pvp kill with respect to the shared items.
This is actually going to be quite interesting to see how it develops since LP doesn't work quite like a straight isk payout. Supply and demand plays a big part in the LP to isk conversion rate. For the winning side LP will get devalued as you can get more items for less LP and at the same time tag prices will increase as the demand for those increases. As more items can be gotten for less LP the supply to market for those items will increase thus increasing competition and lowering prices of said items. This will probably negate some of that seemingly huge isk making opportunity for the winning side.

For shared items any swings in which side is winning will probably have little to no impact but for the faction specific items that can only be gotten through FW LP stores, like the datacores that got introduced in the FW LP stores, these swings might be considerable making LP to isk conversion for the losing side on those items higher and atleast negate some of the effects of the worse LP offers.

I'm not sure how many items in the FW LP stores are actually FW specific since I haven't run a FW mission ever, but as a trader doing mostly mid/long term speculation I would love to see more Faction specific items that can only be gotten through the FW LP stores and I think it would benefit all of the militias aswell by creating a niche for FW LP.

PS. It's rather late so I'm not sure I got my point across but basicly, I don't think it will be as bad as it looks.
Dirk Smacker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#542 - 2012-05-09 23:16:42 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:

The losing side would get effectively 1/16 the lp for a pvp kill with respect to the shared items.

I'm glad I'm on the winning side. We will gladly accept your surrender and will take you into our militia if you agree to put down your arms and farm in peace.

You want my api for the FW hugboard?


I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one.
SigmaPi
Ambivalent Inc
Coney Island Ski Club
#543 - 2012-05-09 23:26:02 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:


It should not go live until people have tested it thoroughly on sisi sigma. But they are steamrolling this crap out without much testing.

Once something is implemented its hard to take it back. Thats the problem.

Also I went to FW cause of the fact i can just log in gets some fights and then take a break. I dont want it to be like null sec or have to work at doing things like null sec. Thats not why i joined FW.

IF i wanted nullsec gameplay i would be in nullsec.


I wish people would stop saying this is like nullsec. From any point in FW lowsec you're never more than maybe 5 or 6 jumps from a station that wont be effected by this change. People are so spoiled about never having to move and just sitting on gates hoping some idiot jumps into you that it's really spoiling how much fun this could be. Granted, no one wants to have the possibility of things being locked forever (i.e what null can do) but in reality, that's never gonna happen. The absolute worst thing that can happen is some inconvenience to you, and you're getting the enjoyment of one of the only challenging aspects of nullsec (the logistics of an invasion).

I beg all of you naysayers to at least give this a try before freaking out and shouting about the sky falling.

Hell, I'd be 100% open to a temporary "don't plex the other guy's systems" until this comes out so that no one gets butthurt - we're all in this game for the fun, after all. I don't want to "win" the war - that ruins everything for everyone.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#544 - 2012-05-10 00:28:23 UTC
mental maverick wrote:
For the winning side LP will get devalued as you can get more items for less LP and at the same time tag prices will increase as the demand for those increases. As more items can be gotten for less LP the supply to market for those items will increase thus increasing competition and lowering prices of said items. This will probably negate some of that seemingly huge isk making opportunity for the winning side.


On the flip side though, having significantly cheaper faction ships might increase demand, and ISK per LP might even increase (more likely with non-gallente boats unfortunately, but maybe one day CCP will fix gallente > frigs).
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#545 - 2012-05-10 00:43:00 UTC
chatgris wrote:
On the flip side though, having significantly cheaper faction ships might increase demand, and ISK per LP might even increase (more likely with non-gallente boats unfortunately, but maybe one day CCP will fix gallente > frigs).

Someday soon chatgris will put the 2300 m/s, 800 dps ENI in the "Gallente boats that are cool" category.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#546 - 2012-05-10 01:02:21 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
chatgris wrote:
On the flip side though, having significantly cheaper faction ships might increase demand, and ISK per LP might even increase (more likely with non-gallente boats unfortunately, but maybe one day CCP will fix gallente > frigs).

Someday soon chatgris will put the 2300 m/s, 800 dps ENI in the "Gallente boats that are cool" category.


No. Chatgris has the mental disease of drakebrain. He cannot help himself.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#547 - 2012-05-10 01:06:12 UTC
Oh, and can someone please explain to me WTF a datacore is, and why they are important? It appears I should be buying some soon.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
SigmaPi
Ambivalent Inc
Coney Island Ski Club
#548 - 2012-05-10 01:09:45 UTC
Hrett wrote:
Oh, and can someone please explain to me WTF a datacore is, and why they are important? It appears I should be buying some soon.


they are used for invention - it's a minor cost in the grand scheme of the invention process and the only reason people are flipping out is because their passive iskfarm is getting a nerfbat to the face.

Even if the price of DCs doubles or tripples, you wont see more than a hiccup in price change on t2 items.
Yogsoloth
Fliet Pizza Delivery
Of Essence
#549 - 2012-05-10 01:28:54 UTC
Quote:
In the reward ladder, helping your faction in territorial warfare should reward the most, followed by PvP, and then finally PvE with missions.


Does this mean Mission LP payout is getting nerfed ??? Can we get confirmation one way or the other.


Quote:

Minor sites: 10,000 LPs
Standard sites: 17,500 LPs
Major sites: 25,000 LPs
Major Stronghold or Major Compound sites: 30,000 LPs
Infrastructure Hub: 40,000 LPs


Because this doesn't look like it will be the top payout on the proposed ladder system

Quote:

Destroying an Abaddon fitted with tech 2 mods: gained LP = ( 196m ISK – 161m ISK + 46m ISK + 0 ) / 10000 = 8100 LP (previous system would have paid 500 LP)
Destroying a Machariel fitted with tech 2 mods: gained LP = (1.170m ISK – 95m ISK + 40m ISK + 0 ) / 10000 = 111500 LP (previous system would have paid 750 LP)
Destroying a Providence with 1 b full of cargo: gained LP = (1115m ISK – 839m ISK + 0 + 1000m ISK ) / 10000 = 127600 LP (previous system would have paid 2000 LP)
Destroying a Punisher with tech 1 fitting: gained LP = (450k ISK – 312k ISK + 100k ISK + 0) / 10000 = around 24 LP (previous system would have paid 25 LP)
Destroying a Punisher with tech 2 fitting: gained LP = (450k ISK – 312k ISK + 7.8m ISK +) / 10000 = around 794 LP (previous system would have paid 25 LP)


And the paltry LP offered for pvp won't beat the current mission payouts. I mean I don't see alot of BS fleets being fielded these days in FW. Dessies, AF's and T1 Cruisers all day but not many BS fleets.

Quote:
But don't take our word for it: save some cheap PvP fitted ships, and when Inferno hits, give it a shot. Go in there, shoot stuff, get killed and experiment with tactics - that is the point.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#550 - 2012-05-10 04:15:27 UTC
SigmaPi wrote:
..Hell, I'd be 100% open to a temporary "don't plex the other guy's systems" until this comes out so that no one gets butthurt - we're all in this game for the fun, after all. I don't want to "win" the war - that ruins everything for everyone.

How magnanimous of you considering that you Shakorites need just the one person per plex whereas we, the Righteous Emancipators, need an entire damn gang Big smile

How did datacores help balance it again? When one side collapses and starves the market of a certain type of core, the price will go so high that the R&D cores becomes even more profitable than now .. invention costs might increase a tad (cores are not that big of an expense), but the inability for a collapsed side to sell their cores at anything but a loss acts as a kick in the balls on a person already on the ground .. awesome design.

There is absolutely nothing in the blog entry that acts as prevention against the snowball, quite the contrary.

The more warzone control, the better off in literally all aspects .. and the crap about plexing (contributing to warzone control) supposed to be the best income source .. even if all systems were reset you'd still be able to take in 25k+ LP in a few minutes compared the twenty minutes of a major which usually take more than one person.
Now add complete control of all space .. plus the umpteen percent LP gain across the board .. FarmVille™ here we go.

On the upside: LP for the two "winning" militia's will be so plentiful that the faction hulls/mods will blot out the suns and we might see some more of the very rare T2 ships (pretty much all T2 Matar cruiser hulls) as inventors essentially get their cores for free.

Allow me to reiterate my previous suggestion to Mr. Jagerblitzen: Convince CCP that they are well served by hiring and/or collaborating with a sociologist, psychologist or antrhopologist .. they clearly have no clue when it comes to human nature, even in a world of their making and under their complete control.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#551 - 2012-05-10 04:19:37 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
There is absolutely nothing in the blog entry that acts as prevention against the snowball, quite the contrary.
QCATS is recruiting. Feel free to pay us a "small" monthly fee to rent Gallente FW standings and farm our missions once yours become worthless. Space is limited.

I'm looking at you Super Chair. We want you back. Big smile
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#552 - 2012-05-10 04:29:36 UTC
Well so far the new changes look good spent some time running plexes and poking around with the new FW frount page. Still need to look at the LP store and then try out some pvp and system fliping.
So any one want to help me try and figure out how fast you can flip systems on sisi?

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#553 - 2012-05-10 04:47:02 UTC
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
Well so far the new changes look good spent some time running plexes and poking around with the new FW frount page. Still need to look at the LP store and then try out some pvp and system fliping.
So any one want to help me try and figure out how fast you can flip systems on sisi?

If it is x5 VP needed, then you are looking 150 plexes or there about .. ideal system is one with a DT-shuffle stack of 20, leaving 130 .. divide that with 6 (3 plex every 30 mins) to get hours it will take.
Yuri Intaki
Nasranite Watch
#554 - 2012-05-10 06:41:23 UTC
SigmaPi wrote:
Hell, I'd be 100% open to a temporary "don't plex the other guy's systems" until this comes out so that no one gets butthurt - we're all in this game for the fun, after all. I don't want to "win" the war - that ruins everything for everyone.


Sadly (if what you say is true, which I doubt) you are in the minority. People will snowball to winning side because they dont want to lose ships and make shitton of isk without feeling threathened. Nobody in Eve is in it for the good fights. Not me, not you. People want to make as unfair gank as possible, without losing a ship and then go to forums to boast about it and feel smug.

Bit like Chatgris boasting elsewhere "I went to fight eve-uni because they fight, dont blob and dont smack in local like Caldari". Then looking at his combat history it's full of "t3 alt boosted nano drake kills t1 fitted frigates" fights. So I quess that says enough about human nature.
Silence iKillYouu
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#555 - 2012-05-10 07:39:59 UTC
Guys.
Sigma once FC'd from his car while he was driving.
It was loltastic

EVE Mail me i dont check forums often.
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#556 - 2012-05-10 07:52:24 UTC
Silence iKillYouu wrote:
Guys.
Sigma once FC'd from his car while he was driving.
It was loltastic


One time, Sigma FC'd from twitter. #primary @ShaleeLianne

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#557 - 2012-05-10 08:37:12 UTC
Silence iKillYouu wrote:
Guys.
Sigma once FC'd from his car while he was driving.
It was loltastic


EVE is real. I was there! Pirate

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#558 - 2012-05-10 08:38:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
X Gallentius wrote:
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
There is absolutely nothing in the blog entry that acts as prevention against the snowball, quite the contrary.
QCATS is recruiting. Feel free to pay us a "small" monthly fee to rent Gallente FW standings and farm our missions once yours become worthless. Space is limited.

I'm looking at you Super Chair. We want you back. Big smile


You just made some developer very happy Blink Working as intended.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Silence iKillYouu
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#559 - 2012-05-10 08:54:10 UTC
Dear Amarr.
U will soon require a Permit to be able to dock in lowsec.
U can buy them from any Minmatar pilot.
Cost is 100Mill a week to rent the station u live in.

EVE Mail me i dont check forums often.
Yuri Intaki
Nasranite Watch
#560 - 2012-05-10 09:04:55 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
You just made some developer very happy Blink Working as intended.


So you admit that you never wanted to stop station lock-out after all and were always biased for your own side?