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Incoming titan adjustments

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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#861 - 2012-03-13 22:15:27 UTC
Swearte Widfarend wrote:

Ok, so geometry is hard. But when you orbit your anchor, there are at least two points in your orbit where your transversal is ZERO and you will be hit. And yeah, your current drake doctorine is a perma-MWD drake. Unless it changed this week.

1 thing. If you orbit in a circle that maintains distance from your target that doesn't happen.
Kazanir
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#862 - 2012-03-13 22:15:27 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
2) If you had 200 bombers, and were facing 1200 guys, how do you propose you talk those 1200 guys into being somewhere bombable??


I dunno but it sure seems to happen to your 150 guys pretty ******* often What?
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#863 - 2012-03-13 22:15:32 UTC
i dunno, I've seen PL drop titans on small cruiser/sub-BC fleet fights they were losing (against cascade imminent lol), i'm not sure what grath's old stupid ass is babbling on about titans being used as a 'anti-blob tactic', because that's not what they're used for
Charles Case
State War Academy
Caldari State
#864 - 2012-03-13 22:16:20 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Charles Case wrote:
Hey Grath maybe you didn't read my post back there

THE DISCUSSION IS OVER


Its not over until the patch goes live



Nah man i'm just making fun of you cause that's how you finish your posts

HUrf
.
.
.
.
.
dUrF

End of discussion!
Charles Case
State War Academy
Caldari State
#865 - 2012-03-13 22:16:50 UTC
you're pretty angry you see
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#866 - 2012-03-13 22:16:53 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:

2) If you had 200 bombers, and were facing 1200 guys, how do you propose you talk those 1200 guys into being somewhere bombable??


http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=22778


Thats nice, why would they ever be somewhere to get bubbled?

Theres literally no need to, they come in, sit in staging tower, then cynoing in their own supers to do any heavy lifting in the system.

But hey, at least you had 200 bombers.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Death2all Supercaps
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#867 - 2012-03-13 22:17:16 UTC
Lesson learned guys:

Dont drop titan blob on a roaming LARPing CCP gang


Or they hit you with 'da bat'
Win Sui
State War Academy
Caldari State
#868 - 2012-03-13 22:17:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Win Sui
Shadoo wrote:
I don't think anyone who has flown a titan in combat can argue that the ship is not currently overpowered in combat when used in great numbers, just like no one could seriously argue about AOD DDs when they started to be used in 3+3 scale every 10 minutes

Of course, same goes for every ship in eve -- when used in great numbers, but Supercapitals certainly show this curve more often on the field

So I'm extremely happy that you state that the ship needs a role change - last time we were campaigning for AOD DD change -- this was exactly what a lot of us were asking for

But that was 3 years ago

I am therefore rather dissapointed that what we, the community at large, have been asking for a very long time is rather haphazardly brushed off as something that "will be looked at long term" with a surgical change that SCREAMS of a kneejerk reaction without really providing us with much to go on here to see your vision or have comfort you are going to do something in the long term for the "end game" ship in EVE

And forgive me for saying this -- but you have not always had a great track record of revisiting changes you've made in the past as surgical adjustments. Thus I feel like pressing a bit harder on the high level thoughts that have lead you to make this current fix

What is your intended role for Titan with this change on TQ today?

How will you evaluate if your changes implemented will match up with that role on the TQ combat field in this release? For example -- as far as I can see -- a large group of titans will still obliterate a large group of battleships/drakes -- all you've delayed is the first hit and require more micromanagement in making sure the lock queue is evenly spaced out

Given how large fights today unfold on TQ -- how do you see this ship fulfilling your intended role on heavily TiDi systems with the sig change

What is your future vision, even at high level, for the Titan ship class? Will it remain a combat asset or are you looking and overhauling it for something else (personally btw I've argued for the last 4 years that titans should NOT be a combat ship at all, but rather a massive alliance level asset for logistics/cloning/staging/etc)

What assurances can you offer us this change will not remain a permanent fixture for the long term?

With the combat ability of this ship being "surgically adjusted", would you be even willing to look at for example increasing the jump range of the ship to balance the change

And lastly -- are you going to allow those pilots who wish to wait for your stated longer term role adjustments to GM-dock their ship until such a time that this change is no longer a surgical measure in order to still utilize the account/character for combat in EVE?


Now this is a pretty ******* good post. Not too far from what CFC wanted afaik.
SuperBeastie
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#869 - 2012-03-13 22:18:04 UTC
Shadoo wrote:
I don't think anyone who has flown a titan in combat can argue that the ship is not currently overpowered in combat when used in great numbers, just like no one could seriously argue about AOD DDs when they started to be used in 3+3 scale every 10 minutes

Of course, same goes for every ship in eve -- when used in great numbers, but Supercapitals certainly show this curve more often on the field

So I'm extremely happy that you state that the ship needs a role change - last time we were campaigning for AOD DD change -- this was exactly what a lot of us were asking for

But that was 3 years ago

I am therefore rather dissapointed that what we, the community at large, have been asking for a very long time is rather haphazardly brushed off as something that "will be looked at long term" with a surgical change that SCREAMS of a kneejerk reaction without really providing us with much to go on here to see your vision or have comfort you are going to do something in the long term for the "end game" ship in EVE

And forgive me for saying this -- but you have not always had a great track record of revisiting changes you've made in the past as surgical adjustments. Thus I feel like pressing a bit harder on the high level thoughts that have lead you to make this current fix

What is your intended role for Titan with this change on TQ today?

How will you evaluate if your changes implemented will match up with that role on the TQ combat field in this release? For example -- as far as I can see -- a large group of titans will still obliterate a large group of battleships/drakes -- all you've delayed is the first hit and require more micromanagement in making sure the lock queue is evenly spaced out

Given how large fights today unfold on TQ -- how do you see this ship fulfilling your intended role on heavily TiDi systems with the sig change

What is your future vision, even at high level, for the Titan ship class? Will it remain a combat asset or are you looking and overhauling it for something else (personally btw I've argued for the last 4 years that titans should NOT be a combat ship at all, but rather a massive alliance level asset for logistics/cloning/staging/etc)

What assurances can you offer us this change will not remain a permanent fixture for the long term?

With the combat ability of this ship being "surgically adjusted", would you be even willing to look at for example increasing the jump range of the ship to balance the change

And lastly -- are you going to allow those pilots who wish to wait for your stated longer term role adjustments to GM-dock their ship until such a time that this change is no longer a surgical measure in order to still utilize the account/character for combat in EVE?






This is a great point.

[center]SuperBeastie's Third Party Service My in-game Channel is Supers Third Party[/center]
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#870 - 2012-03-13 22:18:20 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:

2) If you had 200 bombers, and were facing 1200 guys, how do you propose you talk those 1200 guys into being somewhere bombable??


http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=22778


Thats nice, why would they ever be somewhere to get bubbled?

Theres literally no need to, they come in, sit in staging tower, then cynoing in their own supers to do any heavy lifting in the system.

But hey, at least you had 200 bombers.


hmm how do you get a subcap fleet out of a staging POS when they have friendly supers operating in the system

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Machine Delta
State War Academy
Caldari State
#871 - 2012-03-13 22:18:26 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Machine Delta wrote:

You might not be keen on the idea of using more than one ship type in a fleet but there are things called covops, interdictors, and a thing called probing. If you use those with 200 bombers then yeah you could whittle down a 1200 man fleet or marginalize it from its strategic objectives fairly easily. It's painful to see you try so hard here. You should really step away from the keyboard before you admit to wanting to RMT your titan on these forums in addition to the ones you already have cried on.



1) Ive said my titan will be fine and will function the same as it does now, with a slight delay before the damage hits. Can you identify me saying that I'm RMTing MY titan?

2) If you had 200 bombers, and were facing 1200 guys, how do you propose you talk those 1200 guys into being somewhere bombable??


We both know if I link to a post from kugu it will get deleted. You know what you've said and so have most of the people here. It's been really humorous on this side.

If a fleet of 1200 ships are never in a position to be bombed then they aren't a threat to anything. That would have to be 1200 ships either docked or sitting in their own POS. Neither of which is a concern for 200.

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#872 - 2012-03-13 22:18:51 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:

Thats nice, why would they ever be somewhere to get bubbled?

Theres literally no need to, they come in, sit in staging tower, then cynoing in their own supers to do any heavy lifting in the system.

But hey, at least you had 200 bombers.


sometimes people have to fight where there are no towers to hide in meight

also drag bubbles
Machine Delta
State War Academy
Caldari State
#873 - 2012-03-13 22:20:30 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:

2) If you had 200 bombers, and were facing 1200 guys, how do you propose you talk those 1200 guys into being somewhere bombable??


http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=22778


Thats nice, why would they ever be somewhere to get bubbled?

Theres literally no need to, they come in, sit in staging tower, then cynoing in their own supers to do any heavy lifting in the system.

But hey, at least you had 200 bombers.


Hey wait, are you saying that a few hundred subcaps can't do anything against a big group of supercaps? UghUghUgh
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#874 - 2012-03-13 22:23:10 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Its not over until the patch goes live



:shobon:

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Durr Hurrr Durr
Ivan Zhuk Likes Men
#875 - 2012-03-13 22:24:38 UTC
I'm not saying thes nerf is perfict, im not even saying its good. All im saying is

TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLO
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#876 - 2012-03-13 22:27:23 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:

2) If you had 200 bombers, and were facing 1200 guys, how do you propose you talk those 1200 guys into being somewhere bombable??


http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=22778


Thats nice, why would they ever be somewhere to get bubbled?

Theres literally no need to, they come in, sit in staging tower, then cynoing in their own supers to do any heavy lifting in the system.

But hey, at least you had 200 bombers.


so you drop on the supercaps

suddenly, the 1200 guys have to leave the pos and you can then bubble them

i hope this helped you in your quest to become average at eve online

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Doris Dents
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#877 - 2012-03-13 22:28:01 UTC
Thank you for these much needed fixes. I'm interested in EVE again.
Solinuas
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#878 - 2012-03-13 22:29:05 UTC
Confirming this nerf came about because PL dropped titans on the first CCP fleet.

So PL this is YOUR FAULT... get out... just get out

(Sarcastic post, since i have no doubt that some idiots will think i am serious)
Swearte Widfarend
Ever Vigilant Fountain Defenders
#879 - 2012-03-13 22:29:18 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Swearte Widfarend wrote:

Ok, so geometry is hard. But when you orbit your anchor, there are at least two points in your orbit where your transversal is ZERO and you will be hit. And yeah, your current drake doctorine is a perma-MWD drake. Unless it changed this week.

1 thing. If you orbit in a circle that maintains distance from your target that doesn't happen.



Oh, god. Go back to school. Yes, it does. TWICE in every rotation. Draw a line from your target through your anchor. Now draw a circle around your anchor. See the circle bisected by the line. TWICE.

Democracy is only as good as the despot managing the voting booth.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#880 - 2012-03-13 22:30:57 UTC
Not that I don't adore all these tears, but isn't this a little heavy-handed? I would have preferred to see a small tracking nerf (so tracking titans can't blap hictors) and the elimination of combat-refitting rather than a straight up "titans are now as horrible as dreads" hell-nerf.

I mean seriously, dropping in tracking titans and then refitting on the fly to a 50m ehp tank when you get primaried is pretty ********, but so are Titans that can't hit speed-tanking carriers and take fifteen minutes to lock a POS.

I also don't see "minor tracking nerf plus removal of in-fight re-fitting" on your list of "things we considered but opted not to do," so maybe you'd like to consider it now?

Alternatively, since Titans are now just dreads that move around, let them dock so their pilots can do things other than shoot structures on occasion.