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Incoming titan adjustments

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Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#841 - 2012-03-13 22:08:35 UTC
Win Sui wrote:


Dunno. Or make some friends and stop being such an elitist prick. That might work too.


Man, its like you all want to say it without saying it.


Just admit that you think numbers should win no matter what.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Machine Delta
State War Academy
Caldari State
#842 - 2012-03-13 22:08:36 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Machine Delta wrote:


Hey, we said bombers. Keep moving the goalposts bro.


Right, so say the average alliance can field 200 guys, how are those 200 guys supposed to keep the 1200 man fleet on the field long enough to let the bombers make a single run, and how much is left of that 200 man alliance after they engage the 1200 man fleet.


Scale that if you want to 400, or even 600 guys.


The counter only works if you can get them to stay in one place long enough for each bombing run, and if you were to say, whittle numbers while they formed, well, if you kill enough to matter, the 1200 man fleet won't see the field (thats morale winning, not a fleet comp beating 1200 guys) and if you don't then you're stuck in the same situation.


So tell me again how an average alliance that could normally field a 200 man fleet is to counter 1200 dudes with bombers.


Tell me how a small coalition that could scrape up 600 dudes is going to compete with 1200 guys.


The scaling mechanic is so out of whack that its simply not possible. Over 150 maels and carriers start getting vollied, once you reach the full alpha fleet, backed by 400 drakes, 100 collected scimmies, a small bomber group, and however many rifters you are left with a thing that is literally only currently countered by one thing in game: Titans.

The answer to what beats 1200 dudes is your own 1200 dudes, as there isn't much else thats going to matter.




You might not be keen on the idea of using more than one ship type in a fleet but there are things called covops, interdictors, and a thing called probing. If you use those with 200 bombers then yeah you could whittle down a 1200 man fleet or marginalize it from its strategic objectives fairly easily. It's painful to see you try so hard here. You should really step away from the keyboard before you admit to wanting to RMT your titan on these forums in addition to the ones you already have cried on.

Meltmind2
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#843 - 2012-03-13 22:08:56 UTC
Shadoo wrote:
I don't think anyone who has flown a titan in combat can argue that the ship is not currently overpowered in combat when used in great numbers, just like no one could seriously argue about AOD DDs when they started to be used in 3+3 scale every 10 minutes

Of course, same goes for every ship in eve -- when used in great numbers, but Supercapitals certainly show this curve more often on the field

So I'm extremely happy that you state that the ship needs a role change - last time we were campaigning for AOD DD change -- this was exactly what a lot of us were asking for

But that was 3 years ago

I am therefore rather dissapointed that what we, the community at large, have been asking for a very long time is rather haphazardly brushed off as something that "will be looked at long term" with a surgical change that SCREAMS of a kneejerk reaction without really providing us with much to go on here to see your vision or have comfort you are going to do something in the long term for the "end game" ship in EVE

And forgive me for saying this -- but you have not always had a great track record of revisiting changes you've made in the past as surgical adjustments. Thus I feel like pressing a bit harder on the high level thoughts that have lead you to make this current fix

What is your intended role for Titan with this change on TQ today?

How will you evaluate if your changes implemented will match up with that role on the TQ combat field in this release? For example -- as far as I can see -- a large group of titans will still obliterate a large group of battleships/drakes -- all you've delayed is the first hit and require more micromanagement in making sure the lock queue is evenly spaced out

Given how large fights today unfold on TQ -- how do you see this ship fulfilling your intended role on heavily TiDi systems with the sig change

What is your future vision, even at high level, for the Titan ship class? Will it remain a combat asset or are you looking and overhauling it for something else (personally btw I've argued for the last 4 years that titans should NOT be a combat ship at all, but rather a massive alliance level asset for logistics/cloning/staging/etc)

What assurances can you offer us this change will not remain a permanent fixture for the long term?

With the combat ability of this ship being "surgically adjusted", would you be even willing to look at for example increasing the jump range of the ship to balance the change

And lastly -- are you going to allow those pilots who wish to wait for your stated longer term role adjustments to GM-dock their ship until such a time that this change is no longer a surgical measure in order to still utilize the account/character for combat in EVE?

This is literally the best post in this thread.
960ApofiS069
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#844 - 2012-03-13 22:09:04 UTC  |  Edited by: 960ApofiS069
+1

My opion is titans shoulndt be able to lock subcaps at all, its not too hacky and restrictive if u (ccp) find something what could be added to titans, maybe add to em a cyno, which will not affect their speed or anything (like invuly and not like normal cynofield gen which lock yo ship to point, and if u ccp are worried about moving cyno-speed of titan or bumped titan then make it like tit will create that shining effect which will remain in space for some short time like covps cyno 30s and in that space will be ships able to lock/jump), a new button for titans pilots, add some nice effect to titans that everyone could see that tittans lighted cyno maybe that cyno could be lighted also in cynojamed system (like a bonus titans are also much more bigger than cyno jamers so why not?), and cyno would go down as titan pilot push warp button/jump/under pos ff. Its the easiest way how to solve this, u take and u give, no need for res nerf or guns tracking.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#845 - 2012-03-13 22:09:46 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Weaselior, demonstrating his latent homosexual tendencies for the world to see.

latent?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_homosexuality

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#846 - 2012-03-13 22:09:53 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
evil goonies metagame meight meight meight
Swearte Widfarend
Ever Vigilant Fountain Defenders
#847 - 2012-03-13 22:10:14 UTC
Andski wrote:
Swearte Widfarend wrote:
Charles Case wrote:
Swearte Widfarend wrote:
Charles Case wrote:
TELL ME HOW YOU CAN BEAT A 2000 BLOB END OF DISCUSSION


Turn off the servers and go home.

If you would stop and think (I know, sometimes it's hard when you are in madposting mode), you would realize that half of this Titan nerf is beyond stupid. If Titans are supposed to shoot capitals, great. But after the update with the scan resolution change, Titans won't even be able to do that unless you spend an additional 30-40 BILLION ISK to fit stupid Officer Sensor Boosters. And in doing so, it won't change their ability to shoot MWD Drakes or MWD Maelstroms.

So what does this achieve, other than having the Titan pilots not log in at all?

Because I didn't think CCPs goals was fewer folks on the cluster.


That's some pretty dumb reasoning there ok


Math is hard.

An MWD Drake (or MWD Maelstrom) has the signature of a Carrier. Ergo, the MWD Maelstrom or MWD Drake can be hit by a turret Titan. The proposed Titan changes don't change that fact.


yeah we tend to run our MWDs for fun and just sit still


Ok, so geometry is hard. But when you orbit your anchor, there are at least two points in your orbit where your transversal is ZERO and you will be hit. And yeah, your current drake doctorine is a perma-MWD drake. Unless it changed this week.

Democracy is only as good as the despot managing the voting booth.
Machine Delta
State War Academy
Caldari State
#848 - 2012-03-13 22:10:53 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Win Sui wrote:


Dunno. Or make some friends and stop being such an elitist prick. That might work too.


Man, its like you all want to say it without saying it.


Just admit that you think numbers should win no matter what.



You're the one saying that. Shadoo has so articulately and clearly demonstrated how best to address the issue your white noise posts are really no longer necessary. Maybe you should try out things under Raiden. leadership?
Durr Hurrr Durr
Ivan Zhuk Likes Men
#849 - 2012-03-13 22:11:11 UTC
There sure is a lot of pl tears in a titan nerf thread. Who'd a thunk it huh........
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#850 - 2012-03-13 22:11:30 UTC
Why do supercaps still have their built-in, penalty-free WCS? They're not haulers or miners like the Mastodon or Skiff.

There is no place for WCS on combat ships. Although I can see why their pilots appreciate the elite nature of stabbed PVP. Big smile
Kerensky White
K-EDEN
Winger Aerospace
#851 - 2012-03-13 22:11:39 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Win Sui wrote:


Dunno. Or make some friends and stop being such an elitist prick. That might work too.


Man, its like you all want to say it without saying it.


Just admit that you think numbers should win no matter what.


All I'm hearing is 'I am a lone wolf who is better than you all and I should be able to Rambo your entire alliance on a whim if I so choose'
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#852 - 2012-03-13 22:11:48 UTC
Machine Delta wrote:

You might not be keen on the idea of using more than one ship type in a fleet but there are things called covops, interdictors, and a thing called probing. If you use those with 200 bombers then yeah you could whittle down a 1200 man fleet or marginalize it from its strategic objectives fairly easily. It's painful to see you try so hard here. You should really step away from the keyboard before you admit to wanting to RMT your titan on these forums in addition to the ones you already have cried on.



1) Ive said my titan will be fine and will function the same as it does now, with a slight delay before the damage hits. Can you identify me saying that I'm RMTing MY titan?

2) If you had 200 bombers, and were facing 1200 guys, how do you propose you talk those 1200 guys into being somewhere bombable??

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#853 - 2012-03-13 22:12:36 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Weaselior, demonstrating his latent homosexual tendencies for the world to see.

latent?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_homosexuality


glad it's mutual

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#854 - 2012-03-13 22:12:53 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Weaselior, demonstrating his latent homosexual tendencies for the world to see.

latent?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_homosexuality

man you badpost even about being gay

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Charles Case
State War Academy
Caldari State
#855 - 2012-03-13 22:13:42 UTC
Hey Grath maybe you didn't read my post back there

THE DISCUSSION IS OVER
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#856 - 2012-03-13 22:13:49 UTC
Machine Delta wrote:
Shadoo has so articulately and clearly demonstrated how best to address the issue


Really im pretty sure our posts have said nearly the same thing, I can even go back 4 pages and quote nearly word for word identical posting points if you'd like, but please feel free to call my posts white noise in a sea of 2000 goon posts.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Rommel Rottweil
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#857 - 2012-03-13 22:13:51 UTC
I think that the reduction of Tracking is ok, but a bit harsh on the target & res nerf.

Btw, while you guys are at it, can you boost Capital Turret and Bay DPS a bit.

I suggest giving maybe 20-25% boost for Capital Weapons or a small boost to Siege Damage multiplier Smile
Mik kyo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#858 - 2012-03-13 22:14:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Mik kyo
Win Sui wrote:
Dunno. Or make some friends and stop being such an elitist prick. That might work too.


The only thing worse than a titan nerf, is having to play this game with the retar ded masses.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#859 - 2012-03-13 22:14:40 UTC
Charles Case wrote:
Hey Grath maybe you didn't read my post back there

THE DISCUSSION IS OVER


Its not over until the patch goes live

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#860 - 2012-03-13 22:14:46 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:

2) If you had 200 bombers, and were facing 1200 guys, how do you propose you talk those 1200 guys into being somewhere bombable??


http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=22778