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About 6-12 days (bc 3 or bc 4) per race.

The hope is that after ship rebalancing, people won't have to cross-train any more. That is, every race will have a perfectly viable ship for any role in the game. Which should include solo, gang, fleet, blob, etc.

At least that's what I'm hoping for. I always found it a little bit silly how almost everyone is forced to learn to fly almost everything (within reason), simply because some race's ships vastly outperform other races' ships for a specific task. After the ship rebalance, if it is done well, there should no longer be a need for it. A true min/maxer will still do it, but for majority of players one race's lineup should be sufficient. Though, again, that's just what I'm hoping will happen. For me personally it's somewhat immersion-breaking to see faction militia members flying enemy ships.

Full support to your ideas here and for what you are trying to do and i hope you implement them fast and well.

Also make UI / ART department add those tech tress in game please visual representation in game ftw !

Yes, it is when the core system is of a poor design.

The design for Destroyers and BCs is better than the core system and the core system should become more like them.

That is a gross over simplification and I realize that I did the same but I intend to clarify. I am speaking strictly of T1 ships as it has been stated else where that T2 and T3 are totally different classifications and different situations

So minmatar have speed over the other races and do damage into huge falloff's. So in a one on one brute force battle the minmatar ships can typically choose engagement distance and eat up their competition. But minmatar ships also typically have the absolute worst tank to even things out.

Caldari have ECM and awesome tanks and are very useful in PvP as is shown by their dominance in the Alliance tournaments in recent years. I'm not saying that Minmatar should be the only race that can PvP. I'm saying that it is well known that if you want to learn to PvP you go out and get a bunch of rifters and look for 1 v 1's

On a similar note, Again T1 ships only, Caldari have the drake and Raven which are both excellent mission boats especially for new players that have not learned about transversal velocity. Good tank decent damage no need to worry about distance things like that. Minmatar though you either fly a typhoon where your damage mods only affect half your highslots or you fly a Tempest or Maelstrom and are stuck choosing between Artillery which can hit nothing either close or small or autocannons which can't hit most of the mission BSs that orbit at 35 km or more. The apoc with it's optimal bonuse and scortch do not have that issue. Galenete have drones. So yes Minmatar damage wise are idealized for PvP and penalized for PvE. I'm not saying you can't mission as a Minmatar pilot and I'm not saying you can't PvP as any of the other races. I'm just saying the the Minmatar weapon system is idealized for PvP and the worst choice for PvE.

The versatility of the Galenete ships make them wonderful choices see the neut domi for examples of this. Amarr ships as well have their place in PvP. As things are now you can do all things with every race it's just that some races do specific things better than other races. That is difference and that is flavor. I'm saying we should keep that.

What I've seen recently is changes to hybrids to make them faster thereby removing the speed benefit of Minmatar ships in PvP . Well speed is all the minmatar ships had. They had the worst tanks and did the worst damage already the falloff and ability to keep people in their falloff was the only benefit they had. Now you will see they have to do something to compensate for their compensation. This will be a perpetual nerfy/buff cycle like you see in WoW in an attempt to make things " equal and balanced"

the only thing why u guys are "balancing" the skills to get a ship is becose u want more ******* noobs who play this game whitout getting frustrated......

This is the kind of thing that wow did when they gave paladins to the horde and shammans to the alliance. It make the game boring as hell. If this is implemented, it will remove yet another thing special about Eve. I can understand wanting more subscribers, but this will only pull in those people who just left a game looking for something different. In trying to pull in those transient gamers, we should remember that Eve stands apart for a reason. Keeping people playing is not about doing what the other games are doing. Other games are losing people specifically because of changes like what you are suggesting.

That being said, there are ships that don't get to see as much use as others. Changes should not be made for the sake of change, but for an improvement (or extension) of what has made Eve so wildly successful. The last thing I want to see is a dumb down of game mechanics to appease a crowd of people that never had the intention of staying for the long haul anyway.

Look at the following scenario. Person 1 is an EVE vet, person 2 is considering starting EVE.

1: So what do you want to do in EVE?
2: I mainly want to PvP.
1: Ok, thats cool, PvP is really fun. You have to train Minmatar then.
2: But I think Gallente looks awesome.
1: Well, Minmatar is superior in most aspects of PvP, so that is what you want to train.
2: But...
1: No. Minmatar. Now.

So here we are, a game that has one option if you want to do one thing, and CCP wants to give us the same possibilities with all the races. How the hell is that a boring, dumbed down, WoW, SWToR game?

Yeah, you're right. Now that I think about it, I know a TON of Drake and Tengu pilots who could have used this advice like a year ago. And all those idiots flying around in Abaddons who definitely did not get the memo. And all those Guardian and Basilisk pilots . . . and who the hell keeps bringing these Blasterthrons to small gang fights? Those guys just don't get it. And those Nyx pilots . . . man, don't even get me started on the Nyx pilots.

And don't you even THINK about training a Taranis. If I EVER see you flying a Taranis, I will pod you myself.

You should maybe write a blog or something though, cause people need your help.

^^^this^^

My primary problem with the proposed changes have to do with the additional SP requirements that will be placed on characters after the change as opposed to before.

One can argue as Tippia has tried that 6mil sp is relatively trivial when it comes to the difference between a fully cross trained and a specialized character when it comes to BC's because of weapon and other support skills but this ignores that what we're actually talking about is an additional 20+ days added to the process of adding a different races BC at the level it takes today

Consider today you fly exclusively Gallente (hypothetical) up to BC and because you are a BC specialist you have BC trained to 5 . you have T2 hybrids, good armor and Drone skills, Now you decide that you want to fly a Drake

Under the current system you have to train Caldari Frig to 4 and Caldari Cruiser to 3 at which point you can actually "fly" a Drake with max bonuses, to properly use it you then have to train missile, and shield skills.

Under the proposed system you'd have to train everything above plus Caldari Destroyer and Caldari Cruiser to 4, and then be facing a Rank6 train to level 5 to achieve the exact same results.

So no matter how you try to twist it or spin it this means that players who don't meet what ever qualifications are set to get handed all 8 racial skills at 5 on patch day will be facing somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 additional months of training compared to those who did meet said qualifications.

To me that's a permanent 3 month advantage being granted to players who qualify. and you know what this character qualifies no matter what criteria they set up since I already have all 4 racial cruisers to 5 as well as BC and Dessy to 5

Oh and screw the argument about easing access to command ships. Most people don't train BC5 in order to get access to command ships they train BC5 to maximize the performance of their T1 Battle Cruisers

The only way I can see splitting those two skills into 4 racial specific skills and while not screwing over new players would be to lower their rank to the point where training all 4 would add up to roughly the same amount of skill time as under the current system as Aphoxema G suggests above. This would be fair, no one would "lose" and it would give the developers the ability to split the skills as they desire.

Another thing that needs to be considered in this proposed change, what do you do about people who fly BS and above but haven't trained Destroyers or Battle-cruisers to 4? The character I'm training to be my main capital pilot is currently training BS5 but since I never really used him in smaller hulls (he started as a miner then I moved him to a Domi and now he's going capital) I only trained Dessies on hi to 1 and BC to 2. Now I'm not too worried about him losing access BC's since he's pretty much going to live in a Capital or a BLOPS but this means he technically wouldn't be qualified to fly the ships I'm training him specifically for. Does he suddenly get Gal Dessy and Gal BS to 4

Oh and all the people crying about the BS5 requirement being removed from CAPs being the end of the world, obviously haven't actually trained a capital pilot. Believe me that 26 days is pretty trivial in the larger scheme of stuff you have to train to use a Cap ship properly. For a proper Carrier for instance you need Jump drive operation to 5 so you can train jump drive calibration so you can actually jump a decent range. Drone interfacing to 5 for fighters Logistics to 5 to use a triage module. Then there are all the engineering and tanking skills plus level 5 in all the repping/transfer prereqs. No the biggest affect of lowering the BS req on Cap ships will shortening the cross train to another races capitals by that ~26 days. Of course I won't care that much s

TL:DR if you are going to insist on splitting the Dessy and BC skills into racial types then the only fair way to do it would be to lower their ranks to the point where training all 4 to a given level would take approximately the same amount of time that training the unified skill does under the current system