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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Mining- Why it needs to be saved, and how to do it

First post First post
Author
Blade N'Mare
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#181 - 2012-02-14 21:33:11 UTC
Change the refining system

Hisec ores only refine to the first 4 or 5 minerals
Lowsec ores only refine to the next 4
Nullsec ores refine to the last 4
Mission loot / salvage / droids and anything built etc only return salvage that cannot be refined to base minerals

Change manufacturing

Meta 0 modules/ships/whatever can be made wholly from hisec minerals
Meta 1 modules from mainly hisec minerals, with some salvage
Meta 2 modules from some hisec and more salvage
Meta 3 modules from some hisec, some salvage and some lowsec
Meta 4 as above, but more of the lowsec minerals
Meta 5+ needs a bit of everything, but the higher the Meta, the higher the proportion of nullsec minerals

If your toon wants to chill out in hisec with little stress, or you dont have the skills or support to survive lowsec or nullsec, no problem. Stay in hisec, but dont expect to make billions of Isk. If you want the big isk, or the nice shiny toys, be prepared to enter lowsec and nullsec, or pay a premium to those that will. This also keeps mission running as an important resourse gathering tool. More people will enter low and null chasing the isk, so PVPers will have more targets to pew pew.

As far as bots go, if anyone is doing repetitive task for more than 3 or so hours, the server can start a convo with them and ask a simple random question. "What ship are you running? What is your name? How many hi slots do you have?" It doesnt matter what it is, as long as it is based on the toon and ship they are in. Put a time limit of one hour to answer the question. This allows for afk miners. If the question is answered incorrectly, or isnt answered at all, send another one straight away. Any toon failing 3 in a month, suspend the account until they can demonstrate to CCP they are not bots.

"Light a candle for the Sinners.  Set the World on Fire."

Ohanka
#182 - 2012-02-14 22:22:49 UTC
Trainwreck McGee wrote:
Make mining only at grav sites

make grav sites a gradient of okay to awesome in terms of oar composition and amount

This will increase exploration and make mining more satisfying

Then make mining more like gambling by making a small chance of getting big time minerals.

THIS is how you fix mining

o and botting will be tougher.





stupid, alot of people don't know how, or can't be arsed to learn how to scan.

North Korea is Best Korea

Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#183 - 2012-03-08 14:39:50 UTC
I've been thinking about this idea recently, and I'm not sure it's such a great solution after all.

I like the idea itself, but will it encourage miners to make use of lowsec and nullsec? Pretty much no, as it won't change the fact that miners are hideously vulnerable in these systems.

Any good mining idea needs to make lowsec and nullsec mining a realistic option.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#184 - 2012-03-08 15:01:59 UTC
Mining can only be saved by thrashers and catalysts.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Dbars Grinding
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#185 - 2012-03-08 15:14:51 UTC
Miss Whippy wrote:
I've been thinking about this idea recently, and I'm not sure it's such a great solution after all.

I like the idea itself, but will it encourage miners to make use of lowsec and nullsec? Pretty much no, as it won't change the fact that miners are hideously vulnerable in these systems.

Any good mining idea needs to make lowsec and nullsec mining a realistic option.



Sure it would involve a few new ships though. A new mining ship that is able to generate a bubble around the ship kinda like a warp disruption bubble. This will protect it from groups of 5 people. Groups of people higher than 5 will be able to burn down the bubble. (considering BC class dps) This could be a capital class mining ship or what ever since it is in low/null.

You can make up all kinds of ideas but CCP will never do them. Too many people will ***** etc.

I have more space likes than you. 

Nfp007
Nfp007 Corp
#186 - 2012-03-08 16:38:59 UTC
when i saw this thread it remind me one interesting idea regarding the CAPTCHA against bot and add more fun in the game. Once I was playing a MMO Pirate game. You could do a lot of stuff there, but everything was connected with some kind of logic minigame. As example. You needed to load cannons in your ship. So you had to play a minigame of loading balls into the canon. When you reached next level the minigame changed and was harder. Another level and Harder again. You could be more effective on higher levels, but if you failed on high level, you failed bad.
Some kind of minigame could be integrated in eve, putting bots out of the way for god :-) It would be like recognizing which asteroid spinning and aiming mining laser somewhere.. or optimizing mining laser circuits... or any other minigame or activity which does make a sense and is enterataining. And it should also include logical aspect so that bots wold fail hard. It would be also good to loose level when failing higher level a lot so you would then stick more on the level you like most as you are able to complete it.

this kind of minigames could be also incorporated in other things in eve, like cloak. After and hour of running cloak a minigame would popup. You have to complete the task in one hour or your cloak would be switched off. It will be switched off also when you would fail the minigame :-))

and this should be incorporated in any game activity which is abused by AFK or BOT. So after while there would be only real people playing the game and not BOTs or AFKers.

Regards

NFP
TheBlueMonkey
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#187 - 2012-03-08 17:00:30 UTC
Nfp007 wrote:
when i saw this thread it remind me one interesting idea regarding the CAPTCHA against bot and add more fun in the game. Once I was playing a MMO Pirate game. You could do a lot of stuff there, but everything was connected with some kind of logic minigame. As example. You needed to load cannons in your ship. So you had to play a minigame of loading balls into the canon. When you reached next level the minigame changed and was harder. Another level and Harder again. You could be more effective on higher levels, but if you failed on high level, you failed bad.
Some kind of minigame could be integrated in eve, putting bots out of the way for god :-) It would be like recognizing which asteroid spinning and aiming mining laser somewhere.. or optimizing mining laser circuits... or any other minigame or activity which does make a sense and is enterataining. And it should also include logical aspect so that bots wold fail hard. It would be also good to loose level when failing higher level a lot so you would then stick more on the level you like most as you are able to complete it.

this kind of minigames could be also incorporated in other things in eve, like cloak. After and hour of running cloak a minigame would popup. You have to complete the task in one hour or your cloak would be switched off. It will be switched off also when you would fail the minigame :-))

and this should be incorporated in any game activity which is abused by AFK or BOT. So after while there would be only real people playing the game and not BOTs or AFKers.

Regards

NFP


I love your optimism but you know all thise things you can do.... someone with sufficient programming knowledge could make a bot do that.
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#188 - 2012-03-08 17:08:24 UTC
Moved from General Discussion.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#189 - 2012-03-08 17:46:24 UTC
For reference with this posting: The Mining Buff Fallacy

As to simply asking CCP to provide a monopoly on gaming features and completley remove any semblance of a free and competative market that should remain directly influenced by "player choices", one of the greatest strengths and appeals with EvE gameplay I might stress. I would say you are prescribing a viewed transition for how the game is supposed to be played as a result rather then the current view that players to some extent have some free reign in sculpting and influencing how New Eden operates. This whilst already having a game that deliniates resources opportunities already in favour of the null environment, but isn't being fully utilised. (See linked thread for redistribution of minerals, drone poo and other points associated.)
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#190 - 2012-03-08 18:17:03 UTC
The best part of the OP: replace item drops with BP drops.

If the game depends more heavily on mining, you can bet that more people will mine.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Tsijha Zirud
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#191 - 2012-03-08 21:55:30 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
The best part of the OP: replace item drops with BP drops.

If the game depends more heavily on mining, you can bet that more people will mine.


Or mineral prices will rise high enough for more people gruntingly agree to mine more, time to stock up on large smart bombs then.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#192 - 2012-03-08 22:00:30 UTC
Sounds like a great idea. Bots will always find a way, but anything that makes mining more interesting is great in my book.

now all we need is a better null sec miner and we are all set.

I would love to see a capital mining laser that can be equipped on a Dread.

Same yield as a Strip miners but a Dread can equip 4.

instant solo null sec miner. Massive tank, slightly better yield than a HULK and not available in high sec.

Except for maybe the Veldnaught.
tomato1
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#193 - 2012-03-09 05:42:42 UTC
How do we do this? The EPIC WIN, I say. What if, while mining some basic ore, you have a chance, however small, of mining some exceedingly valuable alloy or mineral (or whatever)? What if it was valuable simply because it had attributes that were completely unattainable via any other means? Like mineral compression for instance? What if while mining Trit you happen to see some "super-ultra-mega-compressed-hyper-density-quantum-tritanium" (I just made that up by the way) pop up in your cargo hold? What if this stuff converted to 10 MILLION Trit per unit, and you just got 10 units of it in your cargo bay? And guess what the best part is? Each unit only takes up 10m3.


i dont think it should be rarity of rich deposits that make it intresting i think in sence should be a regular thing in sence that as many have said that it needs to be interactive i would like the hulk changed some thing like perhaps astroids are bigger and your ship attaches to the rock you have to scope out the vains of ore and then you have to scan it place the lazor drill and that one cycle would give you enough isk to make you happy and perhaps you have things like crystals breaking if you dont do it quite right im not sure but takes skill..."human skill"..... point being like everyone has said afk mining at least this way you feel like you did something
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#194 - 2012-03-09 13:46:56 UTC
Tsijha Zirud wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
The best part of the OP: replace item drops with BP drops.

If the game depends more heavily on mining, you can bet that more people will mine.


Or mineral prices will rise high enough for more people gruntingly agree to mine more, time to stock up on large smart bombs then.

There are enough people who actually enjoy mining (even in the current implementation) that people who don't want to mine won't have to.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Tsijha Zirud
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#195 - 2012-03-09 16:01:15 UTC
Idea Then perhaps mining doesn't need to be saved, instead current being accomplished by a in system space environment that in it's behaviour towards the ship resembles the behaviour of a river, lake, sea or ocean towards a human body with a complex and dynamic rogue drone environmet is a better idea.

It might even be possible to introduce space whales ... as titanic mother drones.

Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#196 - 2012-03-09 16:09:57 UTC
Even people who enjoy mining will be put off from it if the payout is too low.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#197 - 2012-03-09 18:28:20 UTC
Rubber asteroids.

If you want to catch bots, just use decoy asteroids. It doesn't matter if they hit it first or last, but the mining lasers will only move one unit of ore per cycle. This should result in it taking until downtime on a single rock.

Part two of the trick, make it a pit trap. Once mining the rock starts, have it spawn copies of itself.

Make the real asteroids visually identifiable, with the fake ones being obvious. Tweak so bots have a very hard time telling the difference.
Bridget Banks
Duckzer Mining Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
#198 - 2012-03-10 17:12:15 UTC
+1
Danny Husk
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2012-03-10 18:41:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Danny Husk
The slag idea has some merit. Fields could become much larger, with a lot more rocks, but have about the same amount of "live" ore in them which you can find only with a survey scanner. Something like 80-90% dead rocks would be plenty to make blind botting a waste of time.

It seems possible to create some sort of captcha-like display of rock "quality" to defeat bots; so have the server send back a package of heavily randomized data that resolves to a small image showing the "density" of ore in a rock, which is easy to visually interpret, but which due to the randomization would be hard or impossible to memory pick or screen scrape. If it used a "heat map" with a random color palette or randomly formed intersecting lines and shapes, then "density" could be quick and simple for a human eye to read from it, but it would be harder (at least as hard as the usual captcha anyway) to read programatically.

The density reading should show up as a small graphical column in the survey scanner results, but should not be "sortable" in any way, or maybe should sort randomly, to defeat bots that try to macro a sort and then just pick the top X rocks to mine.
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#200 - 2012-03-10 18:48:36 UTC
Dbars Grinding wrote:
Miss Whippy wrote:
I've been thinking about this idea recently, and I'm not sure it's such a great solution after all.

I like the idea itself, but will it encourage miners to make use of lowsec and nullsec? Pretty much no, as it won't change the fact that miners are hideously vulnerable in these systems.

Any good mining idea needs to make lowsec and nullsec mining a realistic option.



Sure it would involve a few new ships though. A new mining ship that is able to generate a bubble around the ship kinda like a warp disruption bubble. This will protect it from groups of 5 people. Groups of people higher than 5 will be able to burn down the bubble. (considering BC class dps) This could be a capital class mining ship or what ever since it is in low/null.

You can make up all kinds of ideas but CCP will never do them. Too many people will ***** etc.


You're right, any idea to fix mining does need to be simple. As soon as you have to start implementing other ideas to make this idea work though, we're already getting onto dodgy grounds.

I'm starting to wonder if we simply need to make mining ships a LOT stronger in terms of defence? I mean, would that really be so terrible?

I stopped mining with my alt as I couldn't turn my back for two seconds without some cheeky so-and-so's ganking me in high-sec. Hey I do the same thing, so I'm hardly one to complain.

I really can't see any particular justification on why mining ships can't have good defenses and room for warp stabs. It wouldn't stop them from being ganked, they just wouldn't be easy targets any more. Maybe I've missed something, but I don't see what really.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]