Jita Park Speakers Corner

Do you think it's time for an industry expansion/iteration as a real priority ?

So much is broken, it's hard to even begin to come up with ideas to fix it without breaking the game entirely.

Basically, when it comes to how I would like to see CCP use their resources in the near future, the top three things I would like to see happen are:

1.) Fix / finish null sec sov

2.) Improve Factional Warfare and life in low-sec

3.) A full blown industrial expansion

My reasons for that order are that I very much want to see CCP iterate on and complete the first two systems that have been lingering in apathy for years now. More importantly, I don't want CCP touching #3 until they can literally put a full expansion's worth of resources into it. It is, as you say, not an easy task. Everything in EVE springs from the way we mine, build and trade.

If you read the post I made here, you'll see that this is something I've spoken of before. Specifically:

"I've always felt that a heavily Industry-themed expansion is LONG overdue. I'd like to see what would happen if the fuzzy bears at CCP were allowed to just go wild for a full release cycle. Every good PVPer in EVE understands the basics of industry and market PVP."

I want to see everyone happily blowing each other up and then I would like to see an industry expansion that allows us to invent / build new and fun ways to keep the violence going strong. I'm a builder at heart. When I play strategy games like Total Annihilation or the old Master of Orion stuff, even Shogun2, I tend to work toward building things as big and 'upgraded' as possible before sending my armies out into the world and conquering it. I like making something out of nothing, big things out of small things, etc... In EVE, I have probably spent just as much time building everything from cruise missiles to Titans over the years just so I could say I'd done it.

I'll bullet point a few obvious things and they should be familiar as everyone has been screaming about them for years:

• New, dead regions of space waiting to be built-up / exploited


• Region-specific resources


• Dynamic resource allocation


• Improved mining / Comet mining / planetary ring mining, etc...
(as a caveat to this, I'd like to see mining become something that requires player interaction to some extent so bots are taken out of the equation as much as possible)


• New probing / scanning mechanics


• Finite resources of rare resources (moon goo)


• Massive scale construction (stargates, etc...)

This is stuff just off the top of my head so don't treat it as anything even remotely resembling the beginning or end of what I'd want to see. One of the things I enjoyed most about being at CCP and working on Apocrypha was creating Wormholes. The sense of wonder and danger had been missing from EVE for so long; for the first time since the beginning of the game, we managed to re-capture some of that feeling, while also adding new stuff (T3) that made the risk worthwhile. I would challenge CCP to do that on an even larger scale.

Fix the fighting and then give us new and improved things to fight over!

One of the major obstacles to mining corporations moving into 0.0 is the culture.

Can you imagine an alliance like PL for instance or an alliance with a culture LIKE Noir (they obviously don't own space, but I'm using the PVP culture as an example), bringing on board a medium sized mining corporation?

Of course not. There's nothing in it for them, no reason to do so. It would be a blemish on the killboard every month, and a sub-culture in their alliance that would never quite fit in.

The problem is that mining corps specifically don't have anything to bring to the table.

Another problem we have and are currently trying to deal with is the moon goo issue.

I've seen in the CSM minutes the references to it and many others have spoken out about it.

I wonder if t2 moon goo couldn't replace the current AWFUL (noone wants to mine spodzilla for days on end) grav sites?

This would bring a much needed change to the moon mining industry and perception of miners sitting around mining all day. And finally create some use for grav sites that just aren't worth it right now.

This IS just an idea, but I wonder if it isn't worth looking into further.

Obviously botting and other issues still need to be worked out, but this could also make available the current t2 hull market which is just not worth getting into industry-wise for many people that don't own BPO's or Tech moons.

Any help appreciated. If you can help on some of these issues you'll get my vote(s).

See this is what I mean about CSM candidates.

There is a general forumula for saying they wish to be heard on particular subjects, but little in the way of actual details they wish to bring to the table - in case someone can at the last minute bring forth a pee shooter and fill their details with holes.

To be honest with you I see little value in mining comets or planetary rings at present.

We need the mining that is currently in the game rebuilt or iterated upon to bring about better incomes and more fun than is presently available. Simply adding new mechanics is just another project CCP will inevitably get wrong or get "not quite right" and then not iterate upon. - leaving us possibly right back where we are now.

I'd really like an answer as to how adding new mechanics will effect PVP cultures of alliances and welcome the industrial core into 0.0 rather than resenting their presence (as is the usual 0.0 culture currently).

Are you putting forward a plan to move t2 moon goo to these planetary rings? Or will that just be another asteroid belt ?

Presently figures are said to be something like 70% of minerals coming out of drone regions, do you consider a cut of 70% minerals will just "fix the problem" for miners in the long run as Mittani seems to continue repeating?

Mining of course is only one factor of industry that requires iteration, but surely you have some thoughts?

No worries, thanks for any time.

Personally, I'd just like to know the light at the end of the tunnel isn't just ANOTHER oncoming train.

Thanks for the replies. I'm definitely considering voting your way.

As to the below stuff:



What I'm getting at here is - consider for instance SRP - I just came from BDEAL where SRP was a joke to be honest. The fact for them is however that they just cant afford a reasonable SRP. Then if you go on the other hand and check out goons SRP. They cover all manner of things far beyond what most alliances can, do or ever will. As an example if you're a Lachesis pilot with a faction point, the goons SRP will actually get you a PROFIT on the loss of your ship.

If upon moving t2 moon goo from moons to say comets or belts, those funds dry up, SRP would have to be covered by having that industrial arm. Presently also t2 ship production is beyond most people without technetium or t2 BPO's. This also might change allowing industrialists who traditionally are kept in empire inventing modules ONLY to expand operations to 0.0 and include ship hulls.

This would change that "PVPers only" culture imo, as people would start to see the value of the industrial side of their alliance.

I also noticed in the minutes a small line suggesting giving invention bonuses to inventors in 0.0, this would also fit within the model - allowing smaller alliances that can't project power to have an SRP and even make a profit - god forbid - in line with the number of PVP pilots they have and be better able to defend themselves without NECESSARILY requiring the napfest that is currently used to do so.

I really don't see a downside apart from the fears of the few who currently hold these moons. And properly implemented with the CCP beancounters' help I can't imagine too many saying no.

Frankly I'd like to see this kind of thing (barring any unforeseen holes in the logic) implemented as fast as humanly possible - things in industry need to change, and now.

Maybe you can do something about forums eating posts because AAAAARGH I just lost what I thought was an excellent post (all my posts are excellent). So I'm just going to shorten it up.

Is there a good reason why outposts cannot be factories and refineries? Not just a few manufacturing slots or a 10-30% refinery, but the full blown deal, or multiple outposts in the same system just like you'd find in empire. I am a small scale nullsec producer and the logistical problems of getting minerals to factories to produce anything bigger than a frigate are outrageously out of proportion to the reward, especially when hulls can just be imported by jump freighter. This, in my opinion, is the greatest obstacle to nullsec industry really taking root. To me, it looks like CCP deliberately made nullsec production much, much more difficult than empire production, to the point of completely hobbling it.

In my opinion, if you just let good factories and good refineries exist in the same system (or even better, the same station), that will be enough to really ignite nullsec industry. This is really the best that could be done for it, and it doesn't take a full blown industrial expansion. As it is, industrial producers combined with jump freighter importers have a huge advantage over local industry in nullsec. If that's the intention of CCP then it's been executed really well, but I have to wonder why.

Just a quick interjection here: even those who do hold tech moons think they're ridiculous and are advocating a nerf/rebalance/rework of some kind. Specifically including goons .

The tinfoil is strong in this one

Confirming the true MC stood for Mining Coalition .