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If you build it, will the Goons come

Author
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#21 - 2012-02-20 15:57:51 UTC
Tippia, I do understand it's just an aversion but I just left that out the equation for clarity.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]

Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#22 - 2012-02-20 16:00:06 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:
See your problem here is attitude to sec status.

The only feasible way under current game mechanics to attack any random desired target is to gank them, this can have negative effects on charecters who wish to continue operations in high sec. Obviously a concern of little consideration to a null seccer .

I don't really understand aggro/kill right mechnics (why should I I'm a carebear) but even if you could get rights to pop them, it wouldn't mean squat. This is a suicide gank right, the tactic is to die, what odds if concord or some carebear kills them, they get there lulz and hopefully pop a mack or a cocky carebear.

My theory on how to deal with the part of the sandbox that appears to have become a cesspit is to just ignored it, when they crawl into high sec and poop on someones sandcastle, well unfortunatly it falls on the builder to pay the clean up costs, such is life , this is how we 'insure' ourelves, as a collective high sec is easly rich enough to afford this. Other than a few care bear tears and a couple of points on 1 in a million market products nothing happens, it's all hype, ignore it.

TLDR

It's all hype, best to ignore it , carry on caring bears Lol


Yes your own "couple of points" on the market is best demonstrated as hype by looking at mining ship prices, orcas and freighters and see how recent prices have changed accordingly due to the potential advent of Hulkageddon. It is having a significant impact on capabilities. If you think swings like this and losses dont effect the economy and should be simply ignored well more the idiot. As as much as industrialists will be capatalising on this the increases in demand will shift production in this area reducing it to others.

If the undervalued industrialist continues to be used as a pinata or neglected then the encouragement for them to do other things will simply increase demand due to their own non-industrial activities and obviously reduce supply of various goods.

Crucible modifications favoured the ganker, with cheaper alpha stike BCs rather than BS and improvements to dessies, making the loss ratio's more in favour for the ganker. So not only is the "hit" on the industrialist more as it takes effectively less assests to destory the same now, the equaivalant purchase on the market has reduced with cheaper or more effective ganking ships, lowering potential incomes as a result from that source. So it is a double blow to the industrialist.

Large losses through hauling take significantly more time to recover from from the industrialist base then the opportunist ganker, who profits from the exercise. But this also takes supply from the market with destroyed assests. Thus any increases in PvP will make supply issues potential worse whilst increasing demand.

Then there is the scope in current development from CSM details to make null sec T2 production more favourable, and emphaises use in null, thus making an inequality in what should be a free market. Thus making less profit opportunities for industrialists elsewhere with T2. And who is calling for these, the very same people who have a war stratergy on the high sec industry base with their "Farms and fields" initiative and a view to making themselves completley independant from the High sec market.

Or the call in the recent CSM minutes for WH space to have the opportunites for cap ships to enter to aifd in the removal of production bases therein. Likley having an impact to prodution for T3 and other regular production as a result.

Or the interdictions on ice effecting POS use.

PI tax changes has also reduced profit opportunites in High sec for industrialists, whilst potentially affording another income in low and null with custom office control. This makes any PI industry less competative aswell.

If you think all of these issues don't have an effect on supply and pricing well you are in denial.

But please continue with the propoganda that other areas of the game are most effecting the economy, watch prices continue to slowly get out of control due to neglect and a continual enthused position to gank soft industrial targets.

Industrialists willing to stick it out will adapt to the most profiteering opportunites as a result, but then you can't really blame them for price hiking either if its to feed demand or replace losses either. But it will effect supply and prices, either as a result of refocussing on what is made and sold or loss of activity due to ganking activities or if people refocus on other things otehr than industry.

Best thing you can do is wake up to the war stratergy being fed to you from certain null sec alliances and realise that there is a good reason why they want you to "**** in your own back yard". Also if you think Goons don't mine well your even more niave and lost to the hype.

So ignore it if you like, but don't feed the crap hype to us and expect us to swallow it.



Or don't follow my advice, don't ignore it and spew a great TLDR wall of text on the intrweebs raving about it, why should I care Roll

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]

Az'Kagoth
War Crime Syndicate
#23 - 2012-02-20 16:23:23 UTC
I'm pretty sure most of the CFC dream of a large coalition of highsec pubbies trying to fight back... Oh how wonderful the slaughter would be! Then we'd go back to shooting IRC.
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2012-02-20 17:26:24 UTC
Az'Kagoth wrote:
I'm pretty sure most of the CFC dream of a large coalition of highsec pubbies trying to fight back... Oh how wonderful the slaughter would be! Then we'd go back to shooting IRC.


Sounds better then taking Delve (again.)
Zangorus
Make-EVE-Great-Again
NO NEED LOOSE FACE
#25 - 2012-02-20 17:31:18 UTC
Valentyn3 wrote:
Why you are even allowed to enter Empire space with a ridiculous sec score is beyond me.

Forget NPC's and turrets, the gate itself shouldn't let you pass through.

Ive had a troubled youth! ITS NOT MY FAULT!

Like my comment and recieve 1 million isk ingame!

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-02-20 18:40:35 UTC
Az'Kagoth wrote:
I'm pretty sure most of the CFC dream of a large coalition of highsec pubbies trying to fight back... Oh how wonderful the slaughter would be! Then we'd go back to shooting IRC.


they will form glorious fleets to invade our capital of EC-P8R

and get their mixed-range, mixed-tank fleets murdered by a welpfleet led by some first-time FC

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#27 - 2012-02-20 19:14:44 UTC
all Goons are really proving is that they can bully high-sec at no recourse. The Goon operations are really only affecting a small percentage of players. Those who are dumb enough to mine in high traffic and well known ice fields/roid belts. It's easy enough to stay off their radar, just gotta find some backwoods system with low population.

Imajitaaltofanalt ofanalt
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-02-20 22:17:31 UTC
The psychologist in me wants to set down and do a study with Goonswarm members to investigate the socioeconomic and social psychological states of each member. Though I know social desire-ability would skew any survey results heavily. Although I ponder if they would allow a researcher to observe the organization from the inside.
Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-02-20 23:47:08 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
That's because all the miscreants already abandoned highsec for the glories of lowsec and null.


Fixed that for you.

For the record, I just shake my head at those who think they are some sort of sociopath because they gank and live life in Nulsec (which ironically sees less action as a whole than Hi or Losec). I really don't think you have any idea of what it's like to be a sociopath. You're just playing at it at best.

That being said, I have to give some of you more credit than your (human) targets, at least you guys adapt and evolve. I have to tip my hat at that. As many options as are available to put a wrench in a ganker's plans, the targets never seem to be inclined to ever truly utilize any of them.
"If."
Thomas Abernathy
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Fraternity.
#30 - 2012-02-20 23:53:09 UTC
I'm not sure what the issue is here?

Current mechanics allow you to kill the agressor as soon as he turns red. I Spent 2 months having all kinds of fun popping Goons and wannabee Goons during the Ice interdiction, to the point they had pretty much given up "Interdicting" Ardallabier.
They occasionally came in and killed a few noobs that refused, or were incapable of fitting a tank, but they would pretty much fail on anything with a tank.

With sufficient firepower and a properly tanked miner, you can fail these ganks all day long, you just have to be willing to spend the time and resources....

"Fighting CCD since 2139"

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#31 - 2012-02-21 00:01:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Imajitaaltofanalt ofanalt wrote:
Although I ponder if they would allow a researcher to observe the organization from the inside.

We have tons of SPAIs, PM me for details on our many programs for embedded SPAIs.

P.S. Some actually non-idiotic reporting on our wars would be nice, PM me if you're a journalist too.

EDIT: Once you get a goon corp on your history, no one will listen to you ever. You might also get addicted to reimbursements for being blown up as well as POS bashing.
Andski wrote:
they will form glorious fleets to invade our capital of EC-P8R

and get their mixed-range, mixed-tank fleets murdered by a welpfleet led by some first-time FC

I think they can kill at least one welpfleet, I mean it's all of highsec fuelled by their mining bots, er I mean ops.

But after the fourth drakefleet I think they'd give up.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#32 - 2012-02-21 00:06:43 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:
It would be much easier if CCP modify game mechanics:
1. Aggression causes a drop in standing to sov holding faction in Empire as it does to currently does to Concord.
2. Players who agress in Empire are flagged for 24 hours to the sov holding factions militia
3. Being an empire policeman is suddenly a fun occupation.

Oh so you mean I get loss of faction standing instead of sec status? Awesome, my -9.19 to Amarr would finally reach -10.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#33 - 2012-02-21 00:07:57 UTC
Stig O'Tracy wrote:
So the simple question is, can the goons and their mouth-breathing accomplices be stopped using the existing game mechanics, or are they spread out amongst too many corporations and alliances?

You need to remove or allow wardecs on NPC corps.

It's all for your security, carebears. Twisted

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Jita Alt666
#34 - 2012-02-21 00:12:09 UTC
Mashie Saldana wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:
It would be much easier if CCP modify game mechanics:
1. Aggression causes a drop in standing to sov holding faction in Empire as it does to currently does to Concord.
2. Players who agress in Empire are flagged for 24 hours to the sov holding factions militia
3. Being an empire policeman is suddenly a fun occupation.

Oh so you mean I get loss of faction standing instead of sec status? Awesome, my -9.19 to Amarr would finally reach -10.


No you get a standing hit to the faction and you get flagged for 24 hours as an enemy of the faction allowing any FW pilots of that faction to engage you anywhere without any consequence.
Brock Nelson
#35 - 2012-02-21 01:16:58 UTC
Oh hey look guys! Another thread on how to combat gankers...

Signature removed, CCP Phantom

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-02-21 01:19:29 UTC
Thomas Abernathy wrote:
I'm not sure what the issue is here?

Current mechanics allow you to kill the agressor as soon as he turns red. I Spent 2 months having all kinds of fun popping Goons and wannabee Goons during the Ice interdiction, to the point they had pretty much given up "Interdicting" Ardallabier.
They occasionally came in and killed a few noobs that refused, or were incapable of fitting a tank, but they would pretty much fail on anything with a tank.

With sufficient firepower and a properly tanked miner, you can fail these ganks all day long, you just have to be willing to spend the time and resources....


https://killboard.goonfleet.com/system/Ardallabier

so much for that

grats on joining an irrelevant and poor alliance 8-)

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Jita Alt666
#37 - 2012-02-21 01:30:09 UTC
That killboard is both fantastic and ugly as sin.
Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
#38 - 2012-02-21 01:34:36 UTC
In the sandbox, everything is an opportunity. Adapt or die. With that being said, high sec in itself is already the game's largest coalition of sorts. Everyone is blue, the markets are flooded with commodities and trade can be done freely anywhere. Due the the weakness of war decs in their current form and the tiny impact of suicide ganking, very little can be done to influence the economic workings of high sec other than a few microscopic dents here and there.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#39 - 2012-02-21 01:39:39 UTC
3-4 alpha thrashers per gank tornado will do the job nicely to end a suicide gankers day. You can even do it at a profit if theyre T2 fitted if you loot and salvage all the wrecks right away. So can they fight back yup they can. They just have to use the same tactics as the gankers against them.


What I DO like is the idea about faction standings losses and the timer. Also allow low faction standings targets to be shot by all militia members regardless of FW involvement. Anytime they get a warning entering a system they can get shot by a militia member of that faction in that system. So now it wouldnt just be the faction police to worry about but players as well.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

Hainnz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-02-21 01:43:23 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
stuff


I don't worry about EVE or anything about it, and it's not apathy or ignorance. No one is forced to play EVE. If CCP screws up, they will know it. It's in their interest after all to make EVE the best game they possibly can.
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