EVE General Discussion

I've lived in wormholes for a long time. Low class wormholes have always seemed like a great way to get newer players out of highsec, and into a more fun environment. Wormholes provide a good balance of pvp and pve, risk and reward.

I am by no means opposed to new content, however I have heard from many, friend and foe alike, who used to live in lower class wormholes (like a C2 with static C3), who are choosing to leave that environment for the safety and higher income of highsec incursions.

Players leaving more dangerous areas of the game because they can make more isk in highsec is a pretty unfortunate outcome of the way incursions are currently set up. Before incursions many complained about the income of L4 missions (and they were/are right). Incursions are now completely off the wall, and it's directly harming other areas of the game.

Highsec should be a training area, where you can safely learn basic skills. If you want to make real isk you should have to take a proportionate risk. The incursion concept has a lot of promise, and there are many good ideas out there for fixing and expanding on them.

everyone knows that incursions pay way too much, and its likely theyll get balanced sooner or later. did we really need another thread for that?

Another whining post on CCP please nerf the Incursions so I can have the best income again.

If your goal i the game is to just get more isk, then you should be doing reactions in your C1. If you want more pvp, move to a better WH.

Oh... man.. you must have bad leaders....
not able to get greater income than highsec incursions

Too bad you can't provide any verifiable data for this. I've heard from lots of people that they were getting ready to move into wormholes... But I can't prove that either...


As per CCP (Diagoras, I believe) missions completed/day is going down (along with bounties from missions), while incursion
bounties are going up - there is some cross-pollination going on - so at least as far as *some* of the isk income is concerned, it's a wash.

Like to see what data you have that "incursions are completely off the wall" and "directly harming other areas of the game". Constant repetition =/= true.

So... We needed another thread why?

I can believe that *some* people are / have moved out of wormholes (for a variety of reasons) but I have no reason to suspect that people haven't also been moving into wormholes as well...

Apocryphal evidence =/= good evidence.

No, it's guys like me who were heavy L4 mission runners with 3-4 accounts and now are stopping L4s, dropping 2 accounts (= CCP financial damage) and jump on the incursions bandwagon.

Why grind standings for L4 on 4 accounts, why upkeeping and paying for 4 accounts when you can do the same with 2?

I will just preface this by saying that I think high-sec incursions are like an infection that needs to be treated by antibiotics and that the more people who lose ships in high-sec incursions the better.

The Brick "no rep" fleets are an example of the best responses to this. No special mechanics, but all player-driven content to ensure that the daft and smug get their earned reward. Fleets of blackbirds jamming logis also make me smile and any creative idea that makes high-sec incursions more dangerous than farting gasoline over an open fire will continue to make me chuckle.

As for wormholes... meh. Most of my alts live in a C4. C3 connections make it possible to solo roam in low-sec on a regular basis and having C3 exits every day make it possible to find ratting T3's to play with. Those things are *highly* amusing even if they don't result in isk. I probably only make 3-odd billion isk on my WH activities per month, which is less than an incursion pilot will make in a week, but I'm having 10,000x as much fun doing it.

Isk isn't everything. Incursions are still "grinding" for isk. 'nuff said.

T-

As an explorer with a long history in low-class wormholes and a lot of contacts made during that time, I can tell you that there has been a notable spike of empty/abandoned C1s and C2s in the past 3 months. I keep hoping it's a statistical glitch that will even out, and that I'll run into a long string of occupied systems soon, but to be honest at this point the odds are against it. My own well-documented observations show a trend of reduced occupation of the lower classes.

This hurts me because there was a time that "good" C2s sold for a reasonable amount of isk. These days it's hard to find people looking for them, and they're so much easier to find that most small corps are able to do it themselves.

Before Incursion, it worked like this: corps would move into low-class wormholes to learn the routine and make isk. They'd add to their numbers, make money, and once they knew what they were doing they'd move up to (usually) a C4 and abandon the C1/2. Those who couldn't manage surviving in the hole eventually left or were forced out. What I think is happening now is the usual process of people moving up/out, but there are fewer people moving in. That's why it's becoming more and more apparent now; the effect takes some time to really manifest.

I hope I'm wrong. As with all things exploration, I understand that this could be just a streak and not a pattern. But the more I explore, the more I document, the less likely it is that we're wrong about this.

I am starting to wonder if the mineral market is also getting impacted by all of this isk as prices are flying up at a rate I have never seen before. I can easily see trit hitting 5 isk per unit within the next two months