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CCP - Did you miss the fanfest round table for FW?

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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#81 - 2011-09-19 12:01:05 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Another nice post Hirana....

Why so surprised? We may be at odds at to how human affects our respective solutions to common problems, but I am not a dogma high-horse riding nay-sayer (well, not most of the time at least) Big smile
Cearain wrote:
As for the super caps I'm not sure if that would give the party defending sov too much of an advantage...Big smile

Screw null and their infantile games of whack-the-mole. Think about what the idea really means ..
- Powerblocs can still form, but allies from from across the vast blue sea will have to put their toys at risk when defending their buddies space.
- Attacking would no longer merely be a question of who has the most super-heavies and/or the amount of HICs/Dics a defender can put in space.
- Most importantly for us (yes, you and me): They would be suicide to jump into low-sec/FW areas more or less alone as has been the practise up until now .. LS sovereignty is assigned to the Empire's. Sure the lone super can be bumped for 5-10 minutes until a HIC can be brought to bear but with more than one that becomes impractical.

And the obligatory: "This is not a bump!"
Amun Khonsu
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#82 - 2011-09-19 16:32:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Amun Khonsu
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Another nice post Hirana....

Sure the lone super can be bumped for 5-10 minutes until a HIC can be brought to bear but with more than one that becomes impractical.

And the obligatory: "This is not a bump!"




Even then they just log off and disappear after 10-15 minutes, which happened in one of our fleets when we had an Aeon under our guns. wtf

Fight them until turmoil is no more and strike terror into their hearts. www.ross-fw.net
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#83 - 2011-09-20 01:55:49 UTC
CCP Spitfire wrote:
Har Harrison wrote:
CCP Spitfire wrote:
Har Harrison wrote:


Well, I will be the first to acknowledge the responses, but I will also say that I hope the FW will continue to make their feelings known and make noise as we do want the attention given to FW that it deserves.

Bring on the results of the planning sessions so we know if we should be justly upset or happy...


A fair and very valid point. All I would personally ask is to keep the feedback in a civil and constructive vein.

Would it be too much to ask that FW can have input in the same way that Soundwave has asked for input into 0.0???


No, not too much. I will ask Soundwave if we can organize something along those lines, but I personally think it would be good to have a solid basis for discussion first (similar to the "0.0 design goals" blogs that started the discussion), and that would take time.



I do think that determining what the goal for FW is the most important part. What can FW add to new eden that doesn't already exist?

People who want to shoot npcs have many varieties of missions. People who want to shoot sleeper ai npcs have incursions and wormholes. People who want to form large fleets that take allot of time to organize and form etc have null sec.

The thing that EVE is missing is a mechanism for “frequent quality pvp.” By "frequent" I mean that if you have ships fit you can get in about 6 quality pvp fights in an hour. By "quality" I mean something other than just blobbing pilots who are doing nothing but trying to get away.

IMO “Frequent quality pvp” should be the goal of Faction warfare. Every idea that promotes that goal should be considered, and every idea that would take us further from that goal should be rejected.

The plexing mechanic is 90% there.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2011-09-20 03:32:04 UTC
I've been flying with some plexing fleets recently - good fun with frigs and cruisers etc... If we could get some more people into the fleets, it would be great...

Shame the spawnign mechaincs make it harder for the late night guys....
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#85 - 2011-09-20 07:00:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Hirana Yoshida
Amun Khonsu wrote:
Even then they just log off and disappear after 10-15 minutes, which happened in one of our fleets when we had an Aeon under our guns. wtf

Yeah, logoffski is a nuisance. We can only hope that CCP listens and adds some time to the clock for the super-heavies. They are considering that option to kill offf the undock/redock "feature" I believe so there is hope.

Post downtime plexing fleets are awesome, done in combat capable ships and both sides generally willing to engage unless there is a large number discrepancy (or small depending on FC Smile).

This is pretty much where my antagonist Mr.Cearain and I differ, he believes that removing NPCs makes plexes into PvP havens whereas I believe the spawning of said plexing will have much greater effect.
I would love for meaningful (ie. not in ass-end of cluster) plexes throughout the day and thus the combat gangs rather than just in the hours after DT with the rest of the day filled with run-away frigates closing plexes in the hopes of moving them to an 'targeted' system.

Bottomline: The plexes, with their size restrictions, are what fosters the memorable fights .. there are good fights elsewhere but they tend to be generic blob slug-outs where the individual is just a cog in a machine (read: boring!).

PS: Still refusing to bump this thread!
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#86 - 2011-09-20 07:26:24 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:

Post downtime plexing fleets are awesome, done in combat capable ships and both sides generally willing to engage unless there is a large number discrepancy (or small depending on FC Smile).




And there lies one of the problems with FW.

Because the plex spawning mechanic is so badly thought out, if you're not on just after DT you're left asking yourself "what's the point?"

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Bengal Bob
Slymsloot Enterprises
#87 - 2011-09-20 08:23:36 UTC
I still think we need some sort of T1 minor plex for our new pilots to allow them to experience plexing without having a dram or faction frig land on them. Minor plexes were originally great pvp, but thrashers started to take over, and then with the easy mission isk they are now full of expensive ships.

Maybe a scale

T1 frig plexes (additional restrictions so high ranks can't enter i.e sasa etc who will **** any newer players)
T1 Dessies down
Minor plexes - as current
And then the same for med plexes.

Maybe restrict majors to bc up so it takes a group effort rather than speed tanking.

Some sort of effort needs to be made to give the newer fw players a slightly more level playing field, as they just quit after losing ship after ship.

I wouldn't say LP for plexing, it is too exploitable. Maybe a medal for a system capture? Dunno really, I don't RP so the plexes are just pvp opportunites for me.

Also, spawning mechanics? Surely this is a quick fix? And if any devs want a laugh, please change it for a few weeks so when sasawong logs on all plexes disappear.
Niko Takahashi
Yoshitomi Group
#88 - 2011-09-20 09:20:59 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
He was supposed to make a reply when he got home from Russia several months ago. One can only assume that he has been arrested for espionage and/or lewd behaviour and therefore stuck in Russia indefinitely .. because the alternative is that CCP are lying through their teeth, making empty promises left and right in the hopes of making us go away - and that cannot be :ccpawesome:


Perhaps we could club together and hire a lawyer to get him released?


Nahh In Russia you need bribe money not lawyersLol
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#89 - 2011-09-20 09:23:03 UTC
Bengal Bob wrote:
...Also, spawning mechanics? Surely this is a quick fix? And if any devs want a laugh, please change it for a few weeks so when sasawong logs on all plexes disappear.

Wish that it was so, but when we started complaining about it at the start of the war CCP said (extreme paraphrasing ahoy!) that due to the lazy coding involved in stripping bits and pieces from mission mechanics, exploration mechanics and Goddess knows what else .. the DT shuffle system was the least malignant solution with the worst being major database renovations at regular intervals.

I could definitely support a minimum requirement for plexes to go with the maximum allowed. Combined with classifying pirate hulls as T2 (or one size up) for the purpose, that might just make plexing more of a team effort .. if nothing else it could serve as a band-aid until a proper revamp can be implemented.
Not sure about limiting based on rank is a good idea as a majority of the "on paper" leet FW'ers have never set foot outside their mission bombers so they won't be able to start dabbling in pew even though they are newbs. Perhaps a large'ish increase in the multiplier of LP gained by killing high ranks is a better way ..

PS: What's up with the loss of love for the great General Sasa? His fanaticism finally taking its toll? Big smile
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2011-09-20 09:28:01 UTC
Bengal Bob wrote:
Also, spawning mechanics? Surely this is a quick fix? And if any devs want a laugh, please change it for a few weeks so when sasawong logs on all plexes disappear.

Supported...
Flynn Fetladral
Tempered Aggression
Seker Matar
#91 - 2011-09-20 09:33:13 UTC
Fixing the spawn mechanic is a no-brainer, how hard it is to do on CCP's part is a total unknown. But it should be fixed! I'd also love to see a T1 Frigate only mini-plex, no destroyers, no pirate faction, navy faction should be allowed considering it's Faction Warfare, but that's just IMO.

Oh and we used a little officer mods. KIDDING! We used a lot of officers mods, A LOT! Because we don’t :censored: around in low-sec.

@flynnfetladral on #tweetfleet
Bengal Bob
Slymsloot Enterprises
#92 - 2011-09-20 10:06:44 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:

PS: What's up with the loss of love for the great General Sasa? His fanaticism finally taking its toll? Big smile



I just think the poor guy needs a break. Can you imagine the relief (panic as well) if he logs on to no plexes Lol

He will finally be released to pvp.
Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#93 - 2011-09-20 12:33:47 UTC
Next fanfest! FW panel in the main hall with all the devs! Hell make FW the theme of the fanfest with different corners and missions and plexes (bars) for every faction. YEAH BEER!

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
CCP Spitfire
C C P
C C P Alliance
#94 - 2011-09-20 12:35:50 UTC
Ciar Meara wrote:
Next fanfest! FW panel in the main hall with all the devs! Hell make FW the theme of the fanfest with different corners and missions and plexes (bars) for every faction. YEAH BEER!


I can't promise a wholly FW-themed Fanfest, but it would be reasonable to assume the presence of beer, yes. Pirate

CCP Spitfire | Marketing & Sales Team @ccp_spitfire
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#95 - 2011-09-20 13:13:19 UTC
Inbefore orbiting icelandic girls
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#96 - 2011-09-20 13:35:13 UTC
Har Harrison wrote:
I've been flying with some plexing fleets recently - good fun with frigs and cruisers etc... If we could get some more people into the fleets, it would be great...

Shame the spawnign mechaincs make it harder for the late night guys....



IMO plex fights are the best thing in eve. But there is a reason why no one plexes. Under the current mechanics plexing is most efficiently done in a pve ship. You plex and if a pvp enemy comes you warp to a different system and continue plexxing.

Basically its hide and seek. The obvious way to stop that from being the case is 1) let the players know as soon as plexes are entered (that way there will be no hope of hiding) and 2) remove the npcs so people don't have to fit thier ships for pve and can actually stay and fight.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#97 - 2011-09-20 13:50:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Bengal Bob wrote:
I still think we need some sort of T1 minor plex for our new pilots to allow them to experience plexing without having a dram or faction frig land on them. Minor plexes were originally great pvp, but thrashers started to take over, and then with the easy mission isk they are now full of expensive ships.

Maybe a scale

T1 frig plexes (additional restrictions so high ranks can't enter i.e sasa etc who will **** any newer players)
T1 Dessies down
Minor plexes - as current
And then the same for med plexes. .


I agree this could be looked at. I would just recommend 1)add a new plex called “rookie plex” or something and only allow vanilla t1 frigates. 2) keep minors the same except also allow t2 frigates. There are several ways to change this around but this in itself won’t be enough.

Bengal Bob wrote:

Maybe restrict majors to bc up so it takes a group effort rather than speed tanking.


If the new mechanics still involve fighting rats while the other militia is not even aware where you are nothing will change. Plexing will remain broken.

Let the militias know when a plex is entered. If the militia knows a vigil enters a major plex and can’t be bothered to send a single ship out within *20 minutes* to chase him out and cap the plex for themselves, then they deserve to lose it.

Major plexes have longer timers so if the opposing militia knows your there (problem is now they don’t even know your there) and wants to fight for occupancy capping it will usually involve more fights. Plus if you try to cap one in a frigate you have a better chance of having your time wasted since a bc or cruiser could show up right before you cap it.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#98 - 2011-09-20 14:21:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
This is pretty much where my antagonist Mr.Cearain and I differ, he believes that removing NPCs makes plexes into PvP havens whereas I believe the spawning of said plexing will have much greater effect.
I would love for meaningful (ie. not in ass-end of cluster) plexes throughout the day and thus the combat gangs rather than just in the hours after DT with the rest of the day filled with run-away frigates closing plexes in the hopes of moving them to an 'targeted' system.

Bottomline: The plexes, with their size restrictions, are what fosters the memorable fights .. there are good fights elsewhere but they tend to be generic blob slug-outs where the individual is just a cog in a machine (read: boring!)....





I believe that removing npcs *and* immediately notifying the militias when a plex is entered will make plexes pvp havens.

Of course, I *also* think CCP should not have more plexes spawn right after downtime. It is not "either or." CCP should do both.

The rest I, not surprisingly, agree with you.

Why the attachment to npcs? Let the miltias know when plexes are entered and decide for themselves if they want to fight for occupancy. If they don't want to send pvp ships to fight for it they will lose it. It’s that simple.


In the meantime I think you will find huge numbers of players who will love being told where other solo or small gangs are sitting waiting for some pew pew. There will finally be a mechanic for pvp that doesn't amount to forming the biggest blob.

Since the notifications of plexes being entered will made to everyone in the militias you never know how many people will show up. (you would know of the size restrictions of the plex though) It would be mayhem like eve never saw.

Trying to balance the npcs and all that, is a waste of time for the devs. NPCs on the whole discourage pvp.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Bengal Bob
Slymsloot Enterprises
#99 - 2011-09-20 17:36:06 UTC
Cearain wrote:
I believe that removing npcs *and* immediately notifying the militias when a plex is entered will make plexes pvp havens.

Of course, I *also* think CCP should not have more plexes spawn right after downtime. It is not "either or." CCP should do both.

The rest I, not surprisingly, agree with you.

Why the attachment to npcs? Let the miltias know when plexes are entered and decide for themselves if they want to fight for occupancy. If they don't want to send pvp ships to fight for it they will lose it. It’s that simple.


In the meantime I think you will find huge numbers of players who will love being told where other solo or small gangs are sitting waiting for some pew pew. There will finally be a mechanic for pvp that doesn't amount to forming the biggest blob.

Since the notifications of plexes being entered will made to everyone in the militias you never know how many people will show up. (you would know of the size restrictions of the plex though) It would be mayhem like eve never saw.

Trying to balance the npcs and all that, is a waste of time for the devs. NPCs on the whole discourage pvp.


Hmm, I have never been hugely discouraged by the Amarr NPCs. Maybe a matter of balancing them so one faction doesn't have overpowered NPC assistance.

I don't like the idea of notifying the militia when a plex has opened. My immediate thoughts are that people will form gank squads to burn to any open plexes and this will make solo pvp/plex hunting even harder.

I think it is much better to make people hunt plexers - pvp should be the reward for active players, not people that wait in station for an alert. It would get more people out and travelling and allow others that don't plex to chase or be chased.

Plexes used to be havens for pvp, but were killed off for two reasons really.

People realized there were no reasons to do them
Those that continue to do them are all flying expensive faction ships which make it difficult for people to compete.

If people want a big plex fight, they will get it, you can't conceal the build up of people into the area
Amun Khonsu
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#100 - 2011-09-20 18:26:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Amun Khonsu
I started FW plexing. I stopped because the reward wasnt worth it. The minute amount of LP and faction standing you get isnt worth going to cap a plex and I can get PvP against the opposing factions without doing it.

Occupancy (gaining or holding) means next to nothing.

Turning systems is a joke since you get absolutely nothing after risking your assets shooting a bunker for an hour+. Well I suppose you can pat yourself on the back but I dont need to turn a system to do that.

CCP should revamp the reward system (or increase rewards) for capping plexes and give reward for turning systems.

Furthermore, there should be something to be had for occupying systems. We are not holding SOV as in 0.0 per se but our faction is SOV and when we hold occupancy there should be an ongoing militia wide benefit that affects every militia member as an incentive to stay involved in holding systems. What that may be, Im unsure at the moment, but the DEVS that created such a great game as EVE can certainly figure out something.

I dont know, how about whoever holds occupancy, the other faction cannot dock at the occupying races stations and all stations are forced open to the occupying force. Bad idea? Maybe, but it is incentive to plex, turn systems and hold occupancy. It is war and the occupier has more control than the occupied.

Handing out LP or ISK reward doesnt have to be the only answer to incentivise people.

Fight them until turmoil is no more and strike terror into their hearts. www.ross-fw.net