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Eve Online, Why it's so good, yet so bad

Author
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#21 - 2012-02-16 01:09:17 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:

Low sec doesn't have restrictions to consensual PVP, bubbles, bombs, or to a certain extent supercaps. Low sec is the bomb.

-Liang


Null sec doesn't have gate guns, sec loss (a restriction to consensual PvP), or many ******** players. Null sec is the bomb. Blink
Johanne D'Arc
Rhine and Courtesan
#22 - 2012-02-16 01:10:28 UTC
OP can't even fit a Rifter, what a joke.
Paragon Renegade
Sebiestor Tribe
#23 - 2012-02-16 01:11:16 UTC
imo, Null is better :D

I would very much prefer if the majority of the game was Nullsec; more freedom and more fun.

Until the blob finds you

^Cool

The pie is a tautology

Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#24 - 2012-02-16 01:11:45 UTC
Johanne D'Arc wrote:
http://bit.ly/y7Yqkf


linking KBs is a pretty pointless endeavor.

not only do many people have alts, but a lot of people also don't use them.
Paragon Renegade
Sebiestor Tribe
#25 - 2012-02-16 01:14:34 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Johanne D'Arc wrote:
http://bit.ly/y7Yqkf


linking KBs is a pretty pointless endeavor.

not only do many people have alts, but a lot of people also don't use them.


Virtually all my losses on this account have been the result of:

A) Accidents

B) Suicide ganks that I didn't adequately prepare for

C) Horrendously-outnumbered fights in poorly-fit ships

Then again, what my stats are has no bearing on whether I'm correct

The pie is a tautology

Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
#26 - 2012-02-16 01:23:46 UTC
Shorter OP: everything is so good in Eve except for everything in Eve.
n1

                      "LIVE FAST DIE." - traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#27 - 2012-02-16 01:26:45 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:

Low sec doesn't have restrictions to consensual PVP, bubbles, bombs, or to a certain extent supercaps. Low sec is the bomb.

-Liang


Null sec doesn't have gate guns, sec loss (a restriction to consensual PvP), or many ******** players. Null sec is the bomb. Blink


I'm not going to defend sec loss (although it doesn't represent a restriction to consensual PVP at all... not sure what you're trying to say there), but gate guns are probably a good thing. Also, Null sec has what the **** blobs.

Null sec sucks.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Paragon Renegade
Sebiestor Tribe
#28 - 2012-02-16 01:28:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Paragon Renegade
It's fun but flawed, what's so bad about that statement?

Halo Reach is a miserable failure in some ways, but incredibly fun in others.

Avatar has very shallow characters, but the movie itself is amazing.

The United States has poverty and crime, but the country on the whole is a great country.

Starbucks is freaking expensive, but the coffee is amazing.

?

v That is an interesting hypothesis, care to explain?

The pie is a tautology

Liam Mirren
#29 - 2012-02-16 01:31:56 UTC
I don't think the OP understands EVE all too well.


Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.

Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#30 - 2012-02-16 01:50:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Liang Nuren wrote:

I'm not going to defend sec loss (although it doesn't represent a restriction to consensual PVP at all... not sure what you're trying to say there), but gate guns are probably a good thing. Also, Null sec has what the **** blobs.

Null sec sucks.

-Liang


Sec loss makes PvP a hobby you have to pay for, and not what it is in nullsec - the spice that makes everything else amazing.

Gate guns mean if someone wants to travel through a nullsec system, there honestly isn't a whole lot you can do about it. The ships that can tank them aren't going to catch the ships that people travel in, at least the competent people. Null has entirely open systems, where it can just be you, your opponent, your probes, and your safespots in an eternal game of cat and mouse, where you play both cat and mouse. Nothing outside interfering unless someone decides to spoil the fun.

Blobs are the easiest thing in the universe to avoid when you fly alone or with a small gang. Not to mention, the mentality of most lowseccers differs heavily from nullseccers. In low, its a rarity to find a lone pilot - everyone wants to win every fight they get into, so they bring friends. In null, that really isn't the case. And when someone does decide to spring a trap, it is hardly a difficult thing to avoid it entirely.
Serene Repose
#31 - 2012-02-16 01:58:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
Johanne D'Arc wrote:
Based on your other stupid threads I'm going to assume this is a bunch of worthless rambling from a clueless troll.
And...I bet you're going to feel REAL clever when you do so!

As far as the OP. There's two things one can say to one's wife.

a.) Your beauty is timeless.

b.) Your face could stop a clock.

People who just accept what you point out (so ably), and the plethora of other lazily handled, or duct taped together features of the game, probably have a minimum amount of cockroaches they're willing to share their kitchens with.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Berke Negri
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-02-16 02:13:14 UTC
Paragon Renegade wrote:

4) That's another excuse. It's claimed space because CCP said so. Doesn't make it right.

low sec is just a social construct man
Paragon Renegade
Sebiestor Tribe
#33 - 2012-02-16 02:15:12 UTC
Berke Negri wrote:
Paragon Renegade wrote:

4) That's another excuse. It's claimed space because CCP said so. Doesn't make it right.

low sec is just a social construct man


I suddenly got the urge to watch The Big Labowski lol

The pie is a tautology

Joe Skellington
Sarz'na Khumatari
#34 - 2012-02-16 02:24:42 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
I think I'd get slapped if I told my wife all of her flaws and then said "BUT YOU'RE STILL AWESOME DESPITE ALL THIS!". Anyway, all games have their problems... some worse than others. Meh.

-Liang


I was going to say the same thing albeit about my girl friend.

Please note that ASCII art is not permitted in the forum signatures. Spitfire

Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-02-16 03:07:44 UTC
Quote:
My Little Pony Online


That's nullsec in a nutshell.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.

Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#36 - 2012-02-16 03:24:39 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
Quote:
My Little Pony Online


That's nullsec in a nutshell.


You should see my bio.
Dbars Grinding
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-02-16 03:34:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Dbars Grinding
I started playing EVE thinking i would be able to solo PVP. Sadly it is impossible and now i just train skills hoping i can find a decent corp someday. I also cant stand scanning and fighting for explorations sites. Go to low sec? no thanks i dont feel like being in a complex and some kid warps in waving their pee pee trying to kill me while i happily kill rats.

I have more space likes than you. 

Alara IonStorm
#38 - 2012-02-16 03:40:10 UTC
Dbars Grinding wrote:
I started playing EVE thinking i would be able to solo PVP. Sadly it is impossible and now i just train skills hoping i can find a decent corp someday. I also cant stand scanning and fighting for explorations sites. Go to low sec? no thanks i dont feel like being in a complex and some kid warps in waving their pee pee trying to kill me while i happily kill rats.

Honestly you should give RvB a try. Their is a lot of misconceptions about it but plain out it is a blast. I usually grab 20 T1 Cruisers and Frigates, 5-10 Battlecruisers, 2-3 Battleships and dive in.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#39 - 2012-02-16 03:40:29 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Paragon Renegade wrote:
1) Horrendous separation of playstyles and professions;
Mining and ratting for minerals, Missions/Incursions vs everything else for isk, and just in general the game has very poorly defined boundaries for PvP and PvE activities . May be seen as a good thing, but this is prevalent throughout the entire game universe, which makes it a chore and a bore when you play by yourself.


The "boundaries" between different professions is "poorly defined" on purpose as [almost] everything is interrelated in some fashion.

Miners gather ore... miners and industrialists process ore into minerals... industrialists use minerals to make ships and mods... traders and shippers moves ships and mods to buyers and/or friendlies... and then you come full circle with players using those ships and mods to gather more ore, move stuff, and attack/defend those gathering, building, and shipping stuff.

Completely separating miners and industrialists from the risk of "combat" means that your enemy can set up a supply line that you cannot attack/counter except by doing that particular activity and "crowding them out" yourself.

Also bear in mind that whatever advantage/gameplay you give to a solo player will be used in spades by players who band/organize together.

Paragon Renegade wrote:
2) Many tasks are stupid, boring and repetitive;


I'll give you this one.

Paragon Renegade wrote:
3) Too many faucets, not enough sinks;
... (snip)... There should be a fixed amount of ISK in the game, with it changing hands between PLAYERS ONLY.


This only works if there is finite amount of resources to harvest/use. And to implement "scarcity" you'd have to make asteroid belts and moons (the two main sources of production in the game) non-respawnable/non-regenerating and make it so that ships are not completely "destroyed" when blown up (so their minerals can be harvested... otherwise there will eventually be nothing left to build stuff with).

Paragon Renegade wrote:
4) The security status regions make no sense;
There are the three different security areas in the game, which makes no sense at the outset. Why are lowsec and Nullsec different? 1-0.1 should be Hisec, 0-(-1.0) should be Nullsec, Christ's sake. Why should people in lowsec be punished for murdering each other? That only serves to make parts of the game inaccessible to players with a certain playstyle (barring alt accounts) which is just as stupid as making miners incapable of entering Nullsec, wtf. As if that already stupid distinction wasn't dumb enough already, they made the security status static, which makes huge swathes of the Hisec world deserted wasteland and massive patches of Nullsec overpopulated and over-exploited. MAKE IT DYNAMIC


"Low-sec" (0.4 to 0.1 systems) is your average "back alley" that the police don't like going into because they might get shanked. Pirate
No, really... low-sec was "intended" on being the PvP-lite area of EVE. Where only "the scum" hang out in, smaller groups/organizations of PvP players can shift around vying for the significantly higher ISK potential that lies in it... groups of players who are not quite at the level of "uber-organization" that 0.0 alliances are at.

Quite basically... low-sec is where "the law" is supposed to "break down" before going out into the "badlands" (null-sec). [/lolrp]

Okay... serious explanation. High-sec as you know it now is actually the "aberration" in EVE as the rules of aggression and the NPCs that enforce it were merely "tacked on" as the years went by. Low-sec is what empire space actually USED to be.

Paragon Renegade wrote:
5) The game is top-heavy;
... (snip)... older players have a massive advantage over other, newer players right from the get-go. ...(snip)... The lack of controls that allow newbs to fight newbs and otherwise match up against others of similar skill levels makes the whole shebang a ****** experience and is annoying to say the least.


You obviously don't understand the skill system (hint; the devil is in the details).

Only a certain amount of skills apply to any one ship and/or mod at any given time. And all skills cap out at level 5.
By focusing your training in one area of expertise you can be just as good as anyone who has played the game for YEARS (as the older player cannot get any "better").
Not only that... the difference between having level 4 and level 5 is a pittling 2 to 5%... and that's nothing that a well placed mod and/or tactic can't get around.
Not only that... skills that related to frigates and cruisers are of a lower "tier" and thus have lower training times than larger ships and/or specialty equipment
NOT ONLY THAT... ships are balanced against each other as well.**

** a common counter against the usual "pros" of the skill system is, "well... even if I am better against a vet in a smaller ship, the vet can still go and get a "bigger, better" ship to come after me.
Indeed, the vet CAN get into another ship that has the potential to mulch your frigate... but you'd be very dumb to wait around for the vet to do so. And the vet in his "bigger" ship will not be as fast or mobile as you are in your frigate (he'll even have trouble locking you up quickly).
So... if you have just won against a vet in a small frigate (kudos if you have)... and you see the vet coming back in... say... an Ishtar... you can gtfo and he/she will not be able to catch you due to your frigate's inherently better agility, speed, and warp speed (unless you WANT him/her to).
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#40 - 2012-02-16 03:40:56 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Paragon Renegade wrote:
6) ****** sovereignty mechanics;


I'll let someone do this one as my understanding of SOV is fairly shallow.


Paragon Renegade wrote:
7) Horrible ship balance;
... (snip)... Most of the T1 frigates, cruisers and many "Specialized" T2 ships are neigh-useless outside a small niche, which makes the more general-purpose ships infinitely-better. ... (snip)... really super capital ships are disgustingly-bad and ruin the game for those who don't have them or aren't affiliated with them . Everyone else who opposes them without having their own are doomed no matter what they do if the enemies have any intelligence whatsoever.


The general ideas behind ship balance in EVE are:
- bigger is not always "better"
- no one ship should be able to "everything"
-- in addition, if you want to a particular thing well, you have to sacrifice "something" (T2 ships take this to the extreme by being "very good" within a specialty at the expense of other functions, which produces some interesting tactics/results when combined with other T2 specialties)
- no one ship should be able to "curbstomp" a whole slew of ships no matter how organized they are

Titans, supercapitals, and (to a lesser degree) dreadnoughts all violated the above ideas and were nerfed to limit their ability to counter ships much smaller than themselves**. Now dreds and scarriers NEED a support fleet lest they pecked apart by a superior sub-capital force.


**Titans may get another nerf in the near future due to complains about them fitting tracking mods and insta-popping smaller ships.

Paragon Renegade wrote:
8) Ships are flying submarines and space acts unrealistically[/quote
... (snip)... in most cases when the devs didn't want to program/write an explanation. ...(snip)...


The common explanation is that our ships' warp engines produce a "drag effect" on the surrounding space. Happy?

Oh yeah... push comes to shove... gameplay/playability trumps realism.


tl;dr: Looking through your OP... I get the distinct impression that you are looking at things strictly from a "single player mentality." I must remind you that this is a MMORPG... a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. While having some things that can be solo'ed is generally a must in this genre of games, balance and rewards for players that interact and organize with others (for better or worse) should take precedence.
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