EVE General Discussion

unlike many other MMOs, in EVE, not all good income types are dependent on isk faucets. for example - expensive deadspace modules and wormhole salvage are sold to players; manufactured goods are sold to players, plus you need to sink some isk to produce them; pure trading is also only sinking isk in the form of sell taxes.

all those things can be quite profitable if done right, and they don't inject any additional ISK into economy.

I actually went through various goods prices on Jita last night. Nearly everything has seen a vast increase in price. Drakes to 42 million from about 28-35. Trit at 4.6 ISk per unti from about 3.2. Plex up to 520 million from 450 a little while back. Pyer nearly doubling, etc, etc. (I fit a Drake at 4-4 last night that has always cost in the range of 63-67 Million for 2 years, it now works out at 76 Million).

Nearly everything on market that links into basic mineral prices (Bottom 3 of Trit, Pyer and that other one) has seen vast increases. I would even suggest that this sort of inflation is concerning, because whereas most of the 'richer' players can adapt it impacts heavily at lower and lower levels which could cause serious knock effects.

See here* for the Drake hike. Don't worry we are working on it.

There are wars raging on. Production is lacking behind consumption. The constant anti miner lobbying (I am guilty myself) led to a situation we didn't have 3 years ago. There are not enough players that can switch from shooting NPCs to shooting roids to take advantage of rising mineral prices.

The agent quality boost has quite an effect as well. You need 3 mining chars now to compete with 1 mission running char. Incursions have an effect too but there are actually not that many players that run them on a regular basis to make a big difference.

At some point the wars will calm down and prices will drop. You should be careful with the term "vast increase", 10% ain't no vast. And inflation does not mean that some prices grow. To talk about inflation you have to take prices for services and income into the bag. For most players income and fees have not changed.

*) http://www.evenews24.com/2012/02/11/attention-industrialists-is-time-to-stock-up-on-drakes/

(That BBCode bug is still not fixed? Well Hilmar, you might have fired the wrong folk.)

The miners, and everyone who thinks that mining should be the primary means of generating minerals to give them a purpose and role in the game.

Roles can be competitive.

Just look at the Falcon and the Arazu. Each can compete with the other for dominance in the same "role."

If miners can't outproduce drone poo and their profitability is down, perhaps they need to adapt a new model?

I think it's a fool's errand to imply that the role of miners is broken for the following two reasons:

1. Miners in general are incredibly stubborn and won't move from highsec due to a nearly vertical curve of risk aversion. This prevents them from fanning out and truly exploiting New Eden's resources in a truly profitable way. Instead they blob up like five year olds playing soccer in high sec mining systems and dumbly await their fates.


2. Miners seem to want to interact less with the game for more reward. This is contrary to the design principle of the game. Their competition in Drone Space (excluding the obvious botters, which exist on both sides of the playing field), meanwhile, have to remain active and attentive and therefore are entitled to the better payouts they get.

No, the role of miners isn't broken. The methodology they continue to try to utilize, however, sure as hell is.

The trouble with markets is they eb and flow over a year or more.

There is inflation but alot of it is just seasonal market flux.

About minerals specific case it's less than that, SC's changes aren't very old, Titans demand isn't very old, however stockholders are hangars empty of those very soon.

That must be awesome to buy a titan pilot and have it in your account to pew with once per month (o +) and just serve as mobile jump bridge/logistics for your corp/alliance.
I gess it's time for mining character to hit the same price, what do you guys think? -not the boters obviously since those don't even see the difference if they pay 1, 10b or 100b for a char)

I'm not all together convinced Titan and Super Carrier Productions are driving up mineral costs. I'm guessing here but I'd say it might be tied to a decision to upgrade stations.

Then those not mining just don't mine and leave alone those liking/doing if afk with second acount whatever?
As long as number of players grow, and as long as mining means loosing every time, and this is exactly what it is thx to game mechanics, the offer will be lower than demand witch means:

-the older players already crowling on billions and rating/mining boting since a few years will "only" have to buy more mining toons, make more billions, continue to play lotteries, selling toons/isk/ships for cash and post whatever so you don't touch their tralala

Drone alloys are crap for the game and yes they should be completely removed, as you shouldn't be able to use reprocess installations unless you have the related skills +you should only have a decent return of your reprocess as it is today with at least Scrap Metal 4

-don't worry I'll re start mining afk with my alt as soon as I can get enough isk return vs the loss of my hulk/mackinaw.
Also hoping CCP will grow a pair to REALLY do something about mining/rating/market bots: ban defenitively and all accounts related to the same user, ban IP/MAC/Payment method/name/DNA or whatever but do it. NAO



AND who cares if the market gets crazy?
-who cares if tritanium hits the 50isk unit?
-the market? - absolutely not, the trader will still be doing profits no matter the buy price he'll get the moment he gets at least 20% benefit he doesn't give a dam of all the rest. Check Plex prices and then change it for tritanium you'll see the ones that will beg, yes beg, for veldspar
Let me try to explain it for you who WILL cry some delicious tears: "those building stuff for several billions of isk" and also "those having hundreds/dozens of billions isk to fit those ships" and also "those destroying ships just for the sake of doing it"
And I did it in English, hell I'm getting good at being a jerk.



Wait wait wait right there, what do YOU consider as "normal prices" are the ones that make miners not mine at all, are the ones that you get because of all those boters and drone poo destroying one part of the game for the joy of so many unbrained pawns that only pewpew "because I can" (bots CCP, bots !! c'mon you can do some crap about it).

Let me say it again: plex should hit the billion per unit, tritanium should hit that 50 to 100isk per unit and all minerals after this hit the same % increase, once this is done and the market is completely crushed because of silly peoples acts maybe we can start playing the game all together.

My opinion is that mining should be a worth-while profession and quite literally the backbone in the EVE industry. My opinion is also that it should be able to cripple this backbone to engage in economic warfare against… anyone, really. If mining becomes important, it becomes important enough to care about and protect, and miners might actually want to learn some basic safety behaviour.

Well, here's the thing. EVE has a massive untapped overproduction capacity that is being held back by poor returns. If drone minerals are removed, the price will spike, people will un-mothball their mining ships and mine like crazy, and the prices will go back down. The new equilibrium will perhaps be a bit higher, but that's a healthy sign, if anything, and would if nothing else provide everyone with a bit more incentive to lobby for a more engaging mining mechanic.

Not really, no. It's no less limited and “weak” than any other skill tree — its the intrusion of a completely unrelated set of skills and ships that causes the problem, and that's where the fix needs to be applied: stop the dual-use of guns — they are not mining implements.

The fact that they're miners and like mining, not ratters who want to train combat ships. The skill path that is supposed to be the main source of minerals is now the least important one — that's “marginalised” pretty much per definition.

Yeah, see, that's the problem: they shouldn't be “free” (as much of a fallacy as that is) — they should be bloody expensive and critically important components of the economy, held under the full control of those who are willing to invest the significant time required to collect them. If mining as a specialisation is an evolutionary dead end, then the sandbox has failed, just like if combat skills were suddenly rendered irrelevant because they are so marginally useful for hurting anything or anyone. A choice that is not worth making is not a choice at all.

This kind of failure is not a result of a “selective sandbox” — it's the result of poor design that thoughtlessly adds elements that obsoletes existing content.