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SWToR Just hit the iceberg=Tortanic!

Author
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#1 - 2012-02-09 09:58:37 UTC  |  Edited by: 2bhammered
Attention PLEASE READ DISCLAIMER BEFORE REPLYING TO THREAD IF YOU INTEND TO TROLL OR FLAMEAttention


EA/Bioware Official server status link below.

http://www.swtor.com/server-status


Also read

http://www.swtor.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=255

swtor.com on their forums, wow Lol I am a bit shocked to be honest, I know from my own experience that the game sucks and would fail but when I quit and deleted it my EU server was very heavy and minimum heavy.

EA real figures like they did with warhammer online.

It seem that the 2 million sold copies were to retail and the 1.7 million subs was at end of December and that the only real data provided by EA as to how many play the game is that "Most" people still playPirate


EA, we love you /notP

So, Warhammer failed and now SWToR right? So third time's the charm? Oops

edit; I forgot about the Earth & Beyond, so I guess that is 3 failed MMORPG games by EA?

First one killed Westwood studios, second killed Mythic, Bioware next?

EA, where companies go to die.


TORTANIC the movie!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5F0A2B8fmU&feature=related


I will always remember the Biodrones exemplified in the movie below, they have a special place among fandom Smile


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P2zkzXX3XE&feature=related


Links to XFire server stats and more on second page.

PS: Read my replies on this and second page to answer any questions you might have or just want more data and interesting articles and information about their failure and how and why it failed. I will try to add some more funny videos as well or whatever. I promise deep and insightful comments and discussion on page 2 and beyond, no really Bear

http://investor.ea.com/stockquote.cfm 52 week all time low reached Cool


DISCLAIMER:

It seems that a few people in this thread has taken serious offense to my OP trying to derail the topic, troll and just go crazy. It is sad to see someone so hurt by SWToR having failed, and have someone point that out to them. I was also let down when I quit after having spent the money and time not to mention having to wait for the game over many years, but I also never went to the extremes of denial and hating a person for calling out SWToR for what it is, Tortanic, epic fail in massive possibly biggest ever proportions in video gaming history.

I think I may have to state once more the reasons for this thread to make some people understand. First is the fact that SWToR was touted and believed to be the biggest threat to Blizzard's WoW (king of MMORPG's) and other MMO's such as EvE Online. It is also the world most expensive video game in history. Second reason is because the game is a terrible game, it really is, half the game is broken both in PVP and PVE and the engine, dx9?! and other problems with the game. They also did false advertising, most likely bribed the media and made a PR spin on bad numbers (read further in this thread to my sources and arguments etc.)

Third reason is because of the open warfare Biodrones have declared on EvE Online and the rest of the MMORPG genre. Their forums have countless threads and posts about how EvE Online is dead, SWToR has better PVP and worse lies. When fact is they could not be further from the truth and their game that they laud is a complete failure both as a game but also by its reception, bad sales, bad subscription numbers and all signs show that is has died. Their own forums is on fire, worse than the worst example of a gamefaqs.

Fourth reason I made this thread is because unlike when I quit awhile back, I am now, as of creation of the OP, certain that this game is already a failure, dying and taking the same route as Warhammer Online, which everyone agrees on was and is a failure and considered "dead", with proof to back it up. You may argue with me or try and prove me wrong, but calling everything I have posted to be pure baseless opinion is wrong. I have provided enough data and places for you to go and look for yourself (check my other posts in the thread.) Also several times someone misquote me or take things out of context in order to "beat" me on this thread, I also see some people struggle with basic English and starting arguments because they can't comprehend the meaning or by contradicting everything I say just for the sake of it.

Just remember, I have quoted your posts and answered them so by doing what I described previously, you just make yourself out to look like someone very ignorant or even worse, a Biodrone.

Fifth and final reason is because it is fun, it really is fun me and many of my friends take great pleasure in this. It is EA who published it, their mistakes are so bad you can't help but to joke about it. It is also fun because Biodrones have been going on for years calling it the best game ever made, I was hyped but come on, let's be serious here. Media such as G4 TV named it best game ever made scoring 100/100, it is a circus and their servers and forums reflect more the score of MMORPG.com that gave it 6/10, but that reviewer was fired, review was then deleted and replaced with a top score review. This stuff is video gaming gold, not to mention you have upcoming lawsuits appearing before court soon between EA and Blizzard for espionage and more. How am I and others suppose to sit at the sidelines and not comment on this biggest drama and epic failures etc in the last 10 years of video gaming industry? We can't and shouldn't!

I end this disclaimer by once again pointing out, if this thread bothers you so much, don't read it Arrow

If you survived the DISCLAIMER you deserve this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNDaG7YqaV4 SWToR-A New MEME!
Kattshiro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-02-09 15:41:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Kattshiro
Why do you care so much if a game succeeds or doesnt if you dont play it?

Also aren't you the guy that lauded it before it's release, and people proclaimed that it wasn't anything new or special rather new with a star wars twist, and voice acting? You then fervently disagreed and told us how wrong we were?

Read last week that sales figures put it at 1.5 millionish. Didnt say active subs, but given that many bought the what? 200 dollar uber peuter box set, and regular 60 price tag. I dunno if i'd call that a total failure. (sales figures are reported by retailers).

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/02/01/ea-reveals-swtor-subscription-and-sales-numbers-beats-financial/

Kinda funny that many want to see other games fail... MMO wise or we put so much stock in subscription numbers rise and fall. It's also funny that numbers are relative to the specific game so EVE = 300kish == success. (8years) (I dont disagree) AOC 150ksih a few years == total failure. Rift 500kish started out with 1 millionish == semi failure.

What would be interesting is to see how many total have subbed for eve over it's life time v. the number of subscribers now.
People make such a big deal over initial sales volume v. current subs. I would argue this is very normal as many are just trying it out or move on to other things. Much is the same of single player games or instanced MMO's (FPS) most people dont just stick around with 1 until its end of days.
Many MMO players only seem to play 1 game and one game only (I dont understand this or do this, but whatever) So their belief is because of this a game == failure.

But really what defines failure in an MMO? I'd say if it's still running and earning money even if it has a low player base.
Lyrka Bloodberry
Spybeaver
#3 - 2012-02-09 15:51:25 UTC
Ehm, the European Servers are all at standard population at 5 pm, so before primetime. That is not really bad...
Of course the servers were full in the first month after release, because... well... it was the first month.

I think you are pretty much overinterpreting.

Spybeaver

stoicfaux
#4 - 2012-02-09 16:01:44 UTC
Kattshiro wrote:
But really what defines failure in an MMO? I'd say if it's still running and earning money even if it has a low player base.

Investors have certain expectations and get cranky if the sub counts aren't as high as they expected them to be.

As for the general "we want to see SWTOR fail spectacularly " pessimism, IMO, SWTOR represents the stagnation (in terms of new ideas/features/paradigms) of the MMO industry, which is making people cranky because they're bored with the status quo. OTOH, it could simply mean that MMOs are now accessible to a much broader audience (i.e. grandma) and MMOs are focusing on appealing to a broader market instead of trying to keep the MMO veterans (aka the old guard, HTFU, teethed on EQ/UO, l33t players,) entertained.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-02-09 16:07:25 UTC
2bhammered wrote:
I also read that EA lied about their figures like they did with warhammer online.

It seem that the 2 million sold copies were to retail and the 1.7 million subs was at end of December and that the only real data provided by EA as to how many play the game is that "Most" people still playPirate


I doubt that they lied, not only where those figures externally verified lying in official stockholder finical reports is punished by prosecution. So during the time period those statistics refer to they are completely accurate.
Saul Shardani
People of the Saiya
Silent Company
#6 - 2012-02-09 16:09:54 UTC
I really wish they had handled Warhammer Online better, I used to love that game Sad
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-02-09 16:10:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Destination SkillQueue
Kattshiro wrote:
Why do you care so much if a game succeeds or doesnt if you dont play it?

Also aren't you the guy that lauded it before it's release, and people proclaimed that it wasn't anything new or special rather new with a star wars twist, and voice acting? You then fervently disagreed and told us how wrong we were?

Read last week that sales figures put it at 1.5 millionish. Didnt say active subs, but given that many bought the what? 200 dollar uber peuter box set, and regular 60 price tag. I dunno if i'd call that a total failure. (sales figures are reported by retailers).

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/02/01/ea-reveals-swtor-subscription-and-sales-numbers-beats-financial/

Kinda funny that many want to see other games fail... MMO wise or we put so much stock in subscription numbers rise and fall. It's also funny that numbers are relative to the specific game so EVE = 300kish == success. (8years) (I dont disagree) AOC 150ksih a few years == total failure. Rift 500kish started out with 1 millionish == semi failure.

What would be interesting is to see how many total have subbed for eve over it's life time v. the number of subscribers now.
People make such a big deal over initial sales volume v. current subs. I would argue this is very normal as many are just trying it out or move on to other things. Much is the same of single player games or instanced MMO's (FPS) most people dont just stick around with 1 until its end of days.
Many MMO players only seem to play 1 game and one game only (I dont understand this or do this, but whatever) So their belief is because of this a game == failure.

But really what defines failure in an MMO? I'd say if it's still running and earning money even if it has a low player base.


I do agree that the OP is making too much out of the figures and server stats. The game is still hugely popular and will likely stay that way for some time no matter what happens. EA and BW will make their initial investment back very soon and it's all profit from that point on(I'm basing this on them saying they need 500k subs for 6 months to break even at one point). The game is only a failure in the sense, that it's a disapointment from many MMO veterans point of view and that it won't likely be able to dethrone WoW. It's some people's belief, that they didn't invest hundreds of millions in to the game to finish second to WoW, so if it doesn't keep gaining subs at a steady pace and overtake WoW at some point, it could be viewed as a failure in that sense too.

I think the reason for caring is part schadenfreude and part caring about the trend of MMOs in general. SWTOR isn't anything special outside the single player campaign, it's a huge budget game to intentionally make a clone of the average MMO, give it a some polish and simplify the gameplay and move things more towards single player games in general. I care because that kind of philosophy in making MMOs is horrible IMO and I don't want to see it becoming a trend in the industry.

How popular it will end up being is sort of a mystery at this point though, since unlike most MMOs SWTOR is very leveling focused and had a good amount of initial content. Basicly meaning the initial impression is very positive leading to renewed subscriptions, while the main problem areas with the game only start at the endgame and it will take a long time before the casual mass of players reaches that point let alone gets bored of repeating it. Those problems being, ignoring bugs, that it doesn't offer anything new compared to other MMOs(except hutball) and in many areas it currently does the same content worse than the competition. Since it is star wars and ignoring individual player taste not a horrible game, it will likely retain hundreds of thousands of players even in the worst case scenario, but depending on how bioware develops the game it could even remain as the second most popular MMO in the west after WoW.
Fuee
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-02-09 16:11:02 UTC
SWTOR cost 300+ million to make
Valei Khurelem
#9 - 2012-02-09 16:13:45 UTC
Fuee wrote:
SWTOR cost 300+ million to make


Are you ******* kidding me?

Oh wait, must have been all those stupid cinematic videos they put up to hype everything.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium

Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#10 - 2012-02-09 16:31:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Micheal Dietrich
Great, I left the Rift forums because their off topic section was loaded with these exact same **** threads and now I have to see it here.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/01/us-electronicarts-idUSTRE8102ED20120201

Looks like they are reporting the same. 2 mil copies sold, 1.7 accounts retained. That tells me that <1.7 million people are enjoying the game (taking into account multiple account users), just as around 100k people are enjoying WAR and 70K are playing AOC.

Kattshiro asked a really good question, why do you care so much about this if you don't even play the game? Seriously, it's just a game, one of many. Don't like it, try something else.


Quote:
SWTOR cost 300+ million to make


I like how this number keeps going up each time I see it.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **

Gavin DeVries
JDI Industries
#11 - 2012-02-09 16:54:07 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/01/us-electronicarts-idUSTRE8102ED20120201

Looks like they are reporting the same. 2 mil copies sold, 1.7 accounts retained.


One thing worries me about that accounts retained number: I seem to recall reading that even though purchased copies of the game came with 30 days of play time, you had to sign up for a subscription to be able to USE the full 30 days; they wouldn't let you keep playing past a certain point without the subscription already locked in. Did they change their minds because of outcry? Or is there the possibility that they're quoting numbers that are going to drastically drop as people unsubscribe as soon as the free 30 days are over?

PVP is a question with no single right answer, but a lot of wrong ones.

Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#12 - 2012-02-09 17:11:06 UTC
Gavin DeVries wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/01/us-electronicarts-idUSTRE8102ED20120201

Looks like they are reporting the same. 2 mil copies sold, 1.7 accounts retained.


One thing worries me about that accounts retained number: I seem to recall reading that even though purchased copies of the game came with 30 days of play time, you had to sign up for a subscription to be able to USE the full 30 days; they wouldn't let you keep playing past a certain point without the subscription already locked in. Did they change their minds because of outcry? Or is there the possibility that they're quoting numbers that are going to drastically drop as people unsubscribe as soon as the free 30 days are over?



The 30 days has come and gone my friend. We're coming up on the 3 month mark when we usually see another natural drop in subscriptions. We'll see it again at 6 months.

But to answer your question, DAOC used this same method as well but all you have to do is sub up to start the game time then immediately unsub. No money lost. And no, EA was not hiding the cancel subscription button.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **

Myxx
The Scope
#13 - 2012-02-09 18:14:27 UTC
Lyrka Bloodberry wrote:
Ehm, the European Servers are all at standard population at 5 pm, so before primetime. That is not really bad...
Of course the servers were full in the first month after release, because... well... it was the first month.

I think you are pretty much overinterpreting.

^ haters gonna hate, etc etc. Also, last night, US primetime, the US servers were all at heavy and standard load. not a single light population server. A couple were full.
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#14 - 2012-02-09 22:53:13 UTC
Kattshiro wrote:
Why do you care so much if a game succeeds or doesnt if you dont play it?

Also aren't you the guy that lauded it before it's release, and people proclaimed that it wasn't anything new or special rather new with a star wars twist, and voice acting? You then fervently disagreed and told us how wrong we were?

Read last week that sales figures put it at 1.5 millionish. Didnt say active subs, but given that many bought the what? 200 dollar uber peuter box set, and regular 60 price tag. I dunno if i'd call that a total failure. (sales figures are reported by retailers).

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/02/01/ea-reveals-swtor-subscription-and-sales-numbers-beats-financial/

Kinda funny that many want to see other games fail... MMO wise or we put so much stock in subscription numbers rise and fall. It's also funny that numbers are relative to the specific game so EVE = 300kish == success. (8years) (I dont disagree) AOC 150ksih a few years == total failure. Rift 500kish started out with 1 millionish == semi failure.

What would be interesting is to see how many total have subbed for eve over it's life time v. the number of subscribers now.
People make such a big deal over initial sales volume v. current subs. I would argue this is very normal as many are just trying it out or move on to other things. Much is the same of single player games or instanced MMO's (FPS) most people dont just stick around with 1 until its end of days.
Many MMO players only seem to play 1 game and one game only (I dont understand this or do this, but whatever) So their belief is because of this a game == failure.

But really what defines failure in an MMO? I'd say if it's still running and earning money even if it has a low player base.



Ehm no I am not that guy, I am the guy that bought it without saying anything and then made a thread afterwards about how much I regretted it and expressed a worry about the MMORPG industry.

Also that article is what I addressed in my OP, about how EA spins PR when infact the game has failed.

Also you ask why I want it to fail? Well, I do want it to fail, not when I bought it but after playing and quitting the game, why you ask? Because the game was a a big finger in the face of gamers and and even an insults. Hopefully it will teach the industry that we consumers are not some idiots who deserve to get screwed over by false advertising and lies to sell us crap.

Mind you, this is the second time they do with MMORPG's, not to mention other EA titles and even Bioware now.

EvE is a success because of the simple fact of how much they invested compared to return. EA invested 300 million dollars by some estimates upwards 500 million by the summer.

Anyway, I regretted my purchase and I made a thread about that before already, this thread I made because I find it to be funny, especially because of the Bidrones. The dumbest group of fanboys I have ever come across in life.

Comments by them like "EvE Online is dead now, swtor killed all competition swtor nr1 yeah EA said so!!" is funny Lol
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#15 - 2012-02-09 22:54:26 UTC
Lyrka Bloodberry wrote:
Ehm, the European Servers are all at standard population at 5 pm, so before primetime. That is not really bad...
Of course the servers were full in the first month after release, because... well... it was the first month.

I think you are pretty much overinterpreting.



If you think these server numbers = 1.7 million and growingRoll

Obviously it is the reverse.

Also isn't max server size 3000?
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-02-09 22:55:40 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
Fuee wrote:
SWTOR cost 300+ million to make


Are you ******* kidding me?

Oh wait, must have been all those stupid cinematic videos they put up to hype everything.


MMO's can take 5 years to make and go through basic testing.
assuming they have 300 people working on the project getting 50k a year
300
x 50
x 5
that right there is 75million, i'm sure most people got paid more then that.

i'm sure EA or lucas arts or god knows who wants a cut.

advertising cost a lot

servers.
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#17 - 2012-02-09 22:59:10 UTC
Myxx wrote:
Lyrka Bloodberry wrote:
Ehm, the European Servers are all at standard population at 5 pm, so before primetime. That is not really bad...
Of course the servers were full in the first month after release, because... well... it was the first month.

I think you are pretty much overinterpreting.

^ haters gonna hate, etc etc. Also, last night, US primetime, the US servers were all at heavy and standard load. not a single light population server. A couple were full.



That is simply not true at all, I know since I checked and at 2am eastern they were all light in both US and EU.

By the way, "haters gonna hate" is the most common phrase used by Biodrones on the internet, that and WoW had problems at launch 2004P

Not saying you are one butLol

Feel free to check xFire if you want server stats.
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#18 - 2012-02-09 23:04:21 UTC  |  Edited by: 2bhammered
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Great, I left the Rift forums because their off topic section was loaded with these exact same **** threads and now I have to see it here.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/01/us-electronicarts-idUSTRE8102ED20120201

Looks like they are reporting the same. 2 mil copies sold, 1.7 accounts retained. That tells me that <1.7 million people are enjoying the game (taking into account multiple account users), just as around 100k people are enjoying WAR and 70K are playing AOC.

Kattshiro asked a really good question, why do you care so much about this if you don't even play the game? Seriously, it's just a game, one of many. Don't like it, try something else.


Quote:
SWTOR cost 300+ million to make


I like how this number keeps going up each time I see it.



Those numbers are wrong since you misunderstand them. EA besides Origin is NOT retail, they said that they sold 2 million copies including on Origin and had 1.7 million subs by end of December. Then they said they have currently "MOST" of them still subscribing, or do you think 300,000 copies were bought but those people decided to not use the free month and just throw the game in a bin?

If you don't believe me check previous EA results and how their numbers and most companies sales numbers work, they count sales to RETAIL, that is how the industry works, same for those Nintendo Wii figures etc.

PS: If this thread really bothers you and you don't like it then don't click itBlink

Also regarding numbers, 300 million was the first number, EA said no it isn't, but ehm wont say what it is then fan-boys spread the rumor that is it only maximum 80 million?! OK, then latest reports say it will be in a total of 500 million by the summer. But who knows, it does make sense if you take into account that they used 3 studios one created from scratch just for this game, 7 years of development, service center and Bioware offices in Ireland all voice over, animated trailers and crazy marketing where a person can see an add for SWToR on a bus stop in Norway etc.

Not so crazy after all.
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#19 - 2012-02-09 23:07:19 UTC
Herping yourDerp wrote:
Valei Khurelem wrote:
Fuee wrote:
SWTOR cost 300+ million to make


Are you ******* kidding me?

Oh wait, must have been all those stupid cinematic videos they put up to hype everything.


MMO's can take 5 years to make and go through basic testing.
assuming they have 300 people working on the project getting 50k a year
300
x 50
x 5
that right there is 75million, i'm sure most people got paid more then that.

i'm sure EA or lucas arts or god knows who wants a cut.

advertising cost a lot

servers.



They spent 7 years and created 2 studios (while having original Bioware and Mythic also work on it) and a service center on top of the trailers, marketing, George Lucas license which is 35% on everything for life and voice overs etc. They however forgot to make a working and good game.
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#20 - 2012-02-09 23:15:12 UTC  |  Edited by: 2bhammered
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Gavin DeVries wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/01/us-electronicarts-idUSTRE8102ED20120201

Looks like they are reporting the same. 2 mil copies sold, 1.7 accounts retained.


One thing worries me about that accounts retained number: I seem to recall reading that even though purchased copies of the game came with 30 days of play time, you had to sign up for a subscription to be able to USE the full 30 days; they wouldn't let you keep playing past a certain point without the subscription already locked in. Did they change their minds because of outcry? Or is there the possibility that they're quoting numbers that are going to drastically drop as people unsubscribe as soon as the free 30 days are over?



The 30 days has come and gone my friend. We're coming up on the 3 month mark when we usually see another natural drop in subscriptions. We'll see it again at 6 months.

But to answer your question, DAOC used this same method as well but all you have to do is sub up to start the game time then immediately unsub. No money lost. And no, EA was not hiding the cancel subscription button.



EA did say it includes free month when they mentioned 1.7 since they stated those figures for 31 of December, just read original conference call to investors. Also I am sure they did not hide it intentionally but it did happen and it happened just before month ended and it was kinda funny lol

Some people mistake the 1.7 million subs to mean as of today, what he said was currently "MOST". He used the word "most" and from that people think it means 1.7 million today. Also their retail figures after December is like 10,000 copies a week, to retail. EA also used them same PR spin on numbers for Warhammer Online after 5 weeks, I guess people just assume EA are honest now, I know I made that mistake buying the game, wont happen again.
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