EVE General Discussion

Oh dear. I must have been confused by its ambiguous title.

http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336



So where in that makes the possibility of formal wardecs against individuals (which by definition would be a form of 'standard conflict') a "bannable offense", like you claim?

Why don't you make an example of EVE's definition of griefing, which you evidently never even read, and quote the statement that makes wardecs against individuals a bannable offense, which you spent several posts claiming and thus why NPC corps have to say.

Also it's against the laws of space and time to have a 2-year wardec against a 1 day old rookie. (which is a worthless example anyway because CCP makes exceptions (eg: canflipping) to rookies)

Which have truly ruined the game for all new players forever and ever. Oh wait.

So to sum up your arguments for the preservation of NPC Corps

- Players need invulnerability for years and years to flood the economy and conduct risk-free nullsec logistics because rookies need access to a chat window on chargen
- NPC corps pay a tax rate of 15%
- Individual wardecs are a bannable offense according to EVE's definition of griefing, but not in any way that can be proven or alluded to.
- Trial players will be exclusively targeted by griefers, in a way that is totally different from the canbaiters and suicide gankers 1 jump from rookie systems already present which inexplicably have not destroyed EVE.

That also sit in the safety of NPC corps.. it isn't just newbs, miners, mission runners, haulers, trading alts.. there are also baiters/gankers/pirates/bot miners sitting in NPC corps that are comfortably in a safety net from people like me that rather hunt them over any 'PvE' minded player. Knowing the game mechanics and being setup to make nearly every situation work in their favor because they are in the safety net of an NPC corp and not dec'able.

Works both ways.

The funny thing is that you still seem to think CONCORD invulnerability is vital to protecting newbies when, as you've spent the last couple post going into detail about, it doesn't. People just alpha their rookie ships in one hit with the cheapest ships available anyway, like you just said. And as Umeega pointed out, NPC corps mechanics can be twisted to help the gankers stomp newbies on top of that. What's being defended is a system where the logistics pilot with EHP in 6 digits enjoys a far greater benefit then the rookie eating alpha volleys from his 'corpmates' that the construct is intended to benefit.

The real benefit of NPC corps for newbies according to your posts, and I actually agree with this, is the access to more experienced players in a communal chat. Which can run just as well with individual wardecs.

Is that some sort of valid arguement? Those people are also likely to setup scenarios for newbs to take a hit, either pop'd ship or Isk wise.. all for a laugh or money. 'Yeah, you're good.. you can shoot yellow people'

Are you implying that people wouldn't get helpful information in a player run corporation? I know I'm much more inclined to help propel someone in my corp to greater heights, that wears my banner.. than anyone else. I'm sure the majority of EVE leadership is much the same.. minus ball bustin and practical jokes which is more healthy and moral boosting than harmful.

NPC chat channels is a lame arguement. There are plenty of public channels to open up and listen/speak in. Also if the thousands of active NPC players are moved into player run corps/alliances.. more conversation be had in those channels. More friendship possiblities while flying under a common banner with a common goal.. the same really can not be said for NPC corps to extent and strength a player run corp can.

They're not friends they have a leash on me.

Wait, people still play in high-sec? I'd better let The Mittani know about this.

How many are going to know about heavy assault cruisers and that they are called HACs?

You're really struggling to hold up your opinion that NPC corps are of strong value to EVE.

They can easily be found by people that explore their UI and get used to all it can do. They will find it on their own.. and if not, they'll hear about it from others.. much like they will hear about HACs from other people. And are much more likely to get reliable, trustworthy info from people in the same player run corp they are in rather than the care less they'll encounter in NPC.

Sure there are helpful people in NPC corps. But not to the degree of a player run corp. Ontop of being more likely to run into people in an NPC corp that are going to try and **** you around for one reason or another.

This will only help strengthen all corps, from high to low to wh to null. The influx of players actually working with other players towards common goals. Doesn't mean you can't be out on your own, run your own corp solo.

I'm completely on the side of their being a re-vamped wardec mechanic, and a time table to which players can spend (or reasonably want to spend - like a growing tax as time ticks, as well as taxing ore somehow, and increasing traders tax) in an NPC corp.

More fighting is going to help everyone.. not just the combat orientated. Mission runners meta items they loot worth more, their salvage worth more, their LP worth more.. obvious gains to minerals/miners/manufacturers more boomboom creates. The growing strength of varies high/low/null/wh entities. New upstarts, that in time if they are good enough with strong quality leadership.. will raise to new heights.

I dare say that majority of nullsec alliances completely welcome the idea of a stronger highsec. Not in the sense of 'material/isk' power.. but the quality and strength of the pilots it produces. The knowledge they can aquire in a deeper, 'richer' highsec and bring to varies nullsec groups.. creating more high quality fights and warfare.

And it is a pretty glass half-empty approach to believe everyone is just going to be bloodthirsty animals. There are quite a good number of trustworthy quality merc groups.. and I forsee more corps that simply provoke the notion of fighting simply for 'justice' against the 'evil-folk' to help protect those that can't figure out how, or unable to do it themselves.

The whole idea really can create a much richer and deeper experince for everyone.

There doesn't have to be a set norm that remains forever.. EVE in itself has already proven that, in the game's history and how it performs vs other rl games. Time to take it to the next step. If such were implemented.. there would be a new norm mental state in time that people will grow up in, and grow into.. a Better one.

As a new player, I'm interested in hearing how you propose NPC corps be disbanded, and what system would take their place? I havnt played too long so far myself (just over a month), so I have no long term experience, but I have already been part of one hi-sec corp that was wardecced and so I left. Why did I leave? Because, at just 2 weeks old, I was not interested in PVP and did not want it forced on me while I was happy doing my own thing in hi-sec. If I was told that now that I am in a war, there was no way to leave it unless the corp leaders made an agreement, then I would have left EVE straight off as I would then be forced in to an activity I did not want to do (last I checked, EVE is marketted as a sandbox, if i'm not mistaken? Not a PVP only MMO).

Not saying I am against PVP, I have actually moved in to Null now (albiet Providence) and am looking at moving myself in to PVP slowly, at own pace. And likewise, I also know if I tire of PVP and/or war, then there is always the possibility of moving back to Hi-sec in a NPC corp. From a lore/RP perspective, I dont see the whole deal about declaring war in Hi-sec. Is Hi-sec not empire territory (and so, lore wise, protected enough), and null-sec alliance and war territory, with low being a mid point between the two? Again, I'm new myself, but I dont get the obession that I'm seeing on the forums of 'PVPers' being determined to kill people in hi-sec.