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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9941 - 2017-08-02 17:12:14 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
I can't believe you dont understand how theres nothing wrong with being afk.

Why should they be at their keyboard?



Not a thing wrong with being AFK.

The issue is a situation where being AFK is the optimal choice for your chosen task, unlike anything else where you can afk but it comes at the price of more danger, lost income, etc.


It is not the optimal choice. It is the optimal choice given the mechanics. The mechanics act as a constraint and change what would be the optimal choice.

Being AFK in a station does not come with more danger nor does it necessarily come with a loss of income. In fact, AFK cloaking does come with a loss of income as you well know.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9942 - 2017-08-02 17:15:52 UTC
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
Kato Szafarchek wrote:
Holy cow, I'd need a fleet of orcas to mine the salt from Teckos.

Where to begin on my perspective? I've turned to the life of J-space months ago and dealing with and engaging in cloaky activities is just a way of life. You never know who's truly in system because local doesn't exist so you go about your business assuming your every move is being watched. D-scan is a religious practice, and cloaked scout ships are incredibly important to finding content, whether it be pve or pvp.

What makes nullsec players so uppity about an afk player sitting cloaked in system is more of just the fact that they are just there, as a neutral or hostile. They know he's there but there's nothing they can do, and it's that helplessness that frustrates the living daylights out of them. I can relate from my short few months spent in nullsec.

Let me tell you a story. There was a pilot who sat in this single system near low-sec that would be afk for weeks on end before he tries to jump a vulnerable ship. Not the brightest pilot too. He successfully jumped and bubbled my Nereus but then he contracted the infamous Squirrel Syndrome as he shot at the Hobgoblin I spam (doing almost no DPS against him) instead of shooting at the industrial that had a tech 1 shield fit (that he could've killed if he focused on it). He was eventually forced to flee back to the abyss when the relief fleet arrived, and as far as I know he' still there to this day, waiting like the troll under the bridge for his next victim. After living in the wormholes where bait ships and ambushes are an everyday fact of life, I know how I could've fitted that nereus to tackle the little bugger and hold him until backup arrives.

Some people have been mentioning local chat. Local acts as a Godsend and a crutch for Nullsec players. It's a Godsend to very easily see threats inbound (without spamming V) and scram before the threat lands on grid. At the same time they've grown so dependent on it that it stifles their creativity when it comes to baiting a cloaky pirate into a fight.


Afk cloaking adds absolutely nothing interesting to the game. Nobody cares enough to form up all day trying to bait some little **** who just wants to grief. There are enough reds I have to deal with where I'm based anyway because we have every alliance in the game roaming through the space. So while your little theories are great that we can bait him out and kill him with a fleet on standby 24 hours a day, the reality is nobody gives a **** if it's not in the system they live in so it's impossible to stop someone afk cloaking, and that's the problem. NO ******* COUNTERPLAY.


You don't form up all day to bait someone. You form up, get in a fleet with PvP fit ships, if you have some alts maybe bring some logi. Go run anomalies. Make ISK. If they drop on you, then you kill them. If you really have a fleet standing by...you are doing it wrong. Chances are they are AFK. So by being in a fleet with PvP fits you get to make ISK, keep up your indexes, and if they drop on you then you get even more fun, and if not you have successfully countered them if they are hopping to catch you unawares of wear down your index levels.

You can also look at killboards and dotlan. You can get an idea of when people are active relative to your time zone. You can also look at the map and see if any systems within BLOPs range are occupied, if they are send a scout.


Easy for you to say as a member of goonswarm carebears but try doing anything in providence with all the activity. Quiet time doesn't exist in provi. We have hotdroppers that have dropped titans on us before and I know where they are staged, it's not helpful information. You're just talking rubbish pal.


If you know all this why are you not using it against them? Wait for them to log in, have an alt with a hictor and try to catch the titan. One thing people will log in for is to kill a titan. Hell you can batphone lots of people in that case.

Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9943 - 2017-08-02 17:20:01 UTC
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
AFK cloaking needs to **** off.

There is no other reason for doing it than to just annoy players. Anybody who says it's for any other reason is talking ****.

There is no counter play. Can't bait them out if they are AFK, can't have everyone sitting around ready to fight all day just in case he does get baited, and that's assuming you can even deal with what they decide to hotdrop.

AFK cloaking doesn't create any content at all, nobody ******* likes this mechanic apart from sad losers who get off on griefing other players. It's totally unbalanced in favour of the cloaker, they decide when to engage, if they even want to engage so it's basically impossible to bait successfully unless they are braindead.

Solution: Make cloak modules deactivate after 10 minutes if not reactivated after 30 seconds then your ship decloaks. If you wanna be that sad loser that wants to cloak in a system all day, then you should be made to ******* sit there and enjoy staring at your cloaked ship all day.


There has been plenty of suggestions given for how to deal with an AFK cloaker. Instead you come in here and act like a petulant jerk.

Yes, a cloaked ship decides when to engage. Working as intended. You don't have to bait them, in fact if they are indeed truly AFK then baiting is a waste of time, get in fleet and go out and do something like mine, rat, etc. In a fleet there is greater safety. Yes, you won't make as much ISK, but you are actually making ISK and doing something.

Why should people who are ATK have their game nerfed for you? Please try to justify this with something other than unadulterated nonsense and Bravo Sierra.



Not the sharpest knife in the drawer are you. What's the point even risking it? I just move next door. You might ask what is the problem, well answer me what is the ******* point in this mechanic other than to grief? It achieves nothing else.

Also if you actually bothered to read my post in an attempt to understand it, you would see my solution doesn't nerf being at the keyboard. If you are at the keyboard you can stop yourself de-cloaking, nothing unfair about that what-so-ever.

AFK cloaking isn't a playstyle. BEING AFK IS NOT A PLAYSTYLE.


Psychological warfare is a valid part of the game. It is not anyone's fault but yours if it actual works against you. And if they catch you unawares well again, that is on you.

And if I am at my keyboard I should not have to do anything to keep from decloaking. I am not the problem therefore I should have to do nothing....literally nothing.

But don't worry oh ignorant one, CCP has indicated they'll change local, most likely to delayed chat, and give us the Observatory Array. So no more local, and you can probe down cloaked ships. Both sides get something, both sides lose something.

See, that is how things should work. Not this, "CCPlease make it easier for me and harder for others who are not even the problem."

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9944 - 2017-08-02 17:21:41 UTC
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:


It's totally irrelevant to my point and the suggestion I made doesn't nerf cloaking, it's nerfs being afk and still having the exact same affect on other players as if you were playing. YOU SHOULD BE AT THE KEYBOARD!. It's the dumbest mechanic ever and I can't believe you people don't understand why.


Why? I can affect the game while not even being logged in.


Not in the way that you can by afk cloaking, so don't pretend you can, not discussing with you either because its clear you just want to drag this into stupid exceptions just to try and be right.


No I can affect it far, far more by not being logged in. P

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9945 - 2017-08-02 17:24:10 UTC
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
It's totally irrelevant to my point and the suggestion I made doesn't nerf cloaking, it's nerfs being afk and still having the exact same affect on other players as if you were playing. YOU SHOULD BE AT THE KEYBOARD!. It's the dumbest mechanic ever and I can't believe you people don't understand why.


How do you have any affect on players when you're AFK? How can an empty chair in front of a keyboard hurt you?

Unless you don't do PvE unless your system is 100% blue, in which case the real problem is that null is entirely too safe.


I can't treat him as afk even if he is ffs. HOW HARD IS THIS TO UNDERSTAND?!

Why the **** would i PVE when reds are in system with the hotdropping mechanic? That's the quickest way to lose ISK, my alliance doesn't have the capabilities to defend against what the hotdroppers around here can drop so get that into your skull and stop talking rubbish.

Seriously, what is the problem with me wanting to PVE for a bit to chill? Why shouldn't it be relatively safe in sov space? ISN'T THAT THE POINT IN HAVING ALLIANCES AND SOVEREIGNTY?

Anyway besides the point, afk cloaking adds nothing to the game, it's a just a **** mechanic for shitters to abuse, IT DOESN'T CREATE ANY CONTENT.


If you have very good reason to think he is AFK why can't you treat him as AFK? Is the problem that you are extremely risk averse, maybe even loss averse? I have utilized this strategy before and it worked just fine.

Oh, I see....

Quote:
....my alliance doesn't have the capabilities to defend against what the hotdroppers around here can drop so get that into your skull and stop talking rubbish.


In this case, HS is that ways ==>

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Caitlynn Askyra
Unity Venture
#9946 - 2017-08-02 17:43:51 UTC
Your logic is absolutely terrible Teckos.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9947 - 2017-08-02 17:47:25 UTC
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
Your logic is absolutely terrible Teckos.


Only because you don't like it, which is not a valid argument.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Caitlynn Askyra
Unity Venture
#9948 - 2017-08-02 19:13:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlynn Askyra
Teckos Pech wrote:
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
Your logic is absolutely terrible Teckos.


Only because you don't like it, which is not a valid argument.


NOBODY sits in a system for 5 days to catch a procurer or VNI off guard because of the local chat mechanic. That's the most stupid justification for AFK cloaking I've ever heard. Any hunter with a brain would go to wormhole space.

The mechanic doesn't add anything to the game, there is no psychological warfare or any of that crap, we just move to the system next door if we want to do anything. The cloaker gets nothing out of sitting there, I just have to spend 20 mins moving stuff into the next system for no reason at all. What's the ******* point.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9949 - 2017-08-02 23:48:56 UTC
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
Your logic is absolutely terrible Teckos.


Only because you don't like it, which is not a valid argument.


NOBODY sits in a system for 5 days to catch a procurer or VNI off guard because of the local chat mechanic. That's the most stupid justification for AFK cloaking I've ever heard. Any hunter with a brain would go to wormhole space.

The mechanic doesn't add anything to the game, there is no psychological warfare or any of that crap, we just move to the system next door if we want to do anything. The cloaker gets nothing out of sitting there, I just have to spend 20 mins moving stuff into the next system for no reason at all. What's the ******* point.


Not everyone wants to go to j-space. I know I don't. Yes, it clearly adds a psychological warfare element to the game. If there were no psychological impact why did you move?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#9950 - 2017-08-02 23:53:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Sonya Corvinus
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
I can't treat him as afk even if he is ffs. HOW HARD IS THIS TO UNDERSTAND?!

Why the **** would i PVE when reds are in system with the hotdropping mechanic? That's the quickest way to lose ISK, my alliance doesn't have the capabilities to defend against what the hotdroppers around here can drop so get that into your skull and stop talking rubbish.

Seriously, what is the problem with me wanting to PVE for a bit to chill? Why shouldn't it be relatively safe in sov space? ISN'T THAT THE POINT IN HAVING ALLIANCES AND SOVEREIGNTY?

Anyway besides the point, afk cloaking adds nothing to the game, it's a just a **** mechanic for shitters to abuse, IT DOESN'T CREATE ANY CONTENT.


Why on earth would you ever undock in nullsec without a standing defense fleet and a plan to respond to an attack any time? You're living in one of the most dangerous parts of space, be prepared for it.

If you want PvP to be a bit chill, go back to HS. You have no place in null. Null means at the first sight of a hostile, you forget about PvE completely and reship to PvP. You all ready are stupidly safe in sov null. Watch local, watch intel channels and you will literally never die. Name one other area in game as safe for PvE-ers as sov null.

If you have a camper in system, PvE in a PvP fit ship in a group of a dozen people fitted similarly. How often have you done that? Give me a ballpark number.

And also, making certain WORDS ALL CAPITALIZED doesn't make anyone take you any more serious.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#9951 - 2017-08-03 10:20:21 UTC
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
Your logic is absolutely terrible Teckos.


Only because you don't like it, which is not a valid argument.


NOBODY sits in a system for 5 days to catch a procurer or VNI off guard because of the local chat mechanic. That's the most stupid justification for AFK cloaking I've ever heard. Any hunter with a brain would go to wormhole space.

The mechanic doesn't add anything to the game, there is no psychological warfare or any of that crap, we just move to the system next door if we want to do anything. The cloaker gets nothing out of sitting there, I just have to spend 20 mins moving stuff into the next system for no reason at all. What's the ******* point.


That's precisely why they do it. To hunt you. To hurt your income. To hurt your alliance income. You don't like it, but it's a valid strategy. And hunting you is content.

You can always goto hisec (where you clearly belong anyways).

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#9952 - 2017-08-03 10:26:24 UTC
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
The point in the mechanic is they are hunting you. But if it wasn't for local they wouldn't even need to pretend to be afk.

No local, no afk cloaking.


Whatever dude, they aren't hunting anything.

Remove hotdropping then you can remove local. If you tried to remove local and not hotdropping then you would lose half the players in the game because there would be zero point in trying to mine or rat.

You can hunt just fine with local anyway, I can do it, it's not hard. Maybe you are just bad. Maybe that's why you have to hunt miners instead of players that want to PVP.


You don't really think before you post do you...You realise less than half the players in the game are even in a position to be hot dropped right?Roll

And the irony of you waving your pvp e-peen.Lol

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs