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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Author
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#9901 - 2017-07-15 06:26:10 UTC
grgjegb gergerg wrote:
New deployable for soverign nullsec space:

"Phase Enforcer Array"

What this would do, is locks cloak status of all ship in system. Every single one of them is either cloaked, or uncloaked. And this module makes them stay that way.

So, if someone is afk-cloaking in your system? Anchor and online a Phase Enforcer (or whatever the name shakes out as).

This forces the cloaker to stay cloaked, and they can either jump out of the system, or use a gate, or use a wormhole. Recalling probes is easy, launching new ones is impossible.

No cynos. No decloaking and using weapons. Flying within 2000m of objects no longer decloaks the ship, it just does 10% of EHP per second in pure damage.


So people can still quite easily afk cloak anywhere. And people who own the space can keep them cloaked.


Yes, lets implement a module that will not let people play the game.

Does being this stupid come naturally or do you have to work at it?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#9902 - 2017-07-15 06:28:39 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
grgjegb gergerg wrote:
New deployable for soverign nullsec space:

"Phase Enforcer Array"

What this would do, is locks cloak status of all ship in system. Every single one of them is either cloaked, or uncloaked. And this module makes them stay that way.

So, if someone is afk-cloaking in your system? Anchor and online a Phase Enforcer (or whatever the name shakes out as).

This forces the cloaker to stay cloaked, and they can either jump out of the system, or use a gate, or use a wormhole. Recalling probes is easy, launching new ones is impossible.

No cynos. No decloaking and using weapons. Flying within 2000m of objects no longer decloaks the ship, it just does 10% of EHP per second in pure damage.


So people can still quite easily afk cloak anywhere. And people who own the space can keep them cloaked.


I would imagine logging out and back in would work too. I like it for the humor value if nothing else, though I'm sure the usual folks will be along to point out how it completely ruins the game, somehow.


Mike you usually aren't this blindingly stupid.

Do you use a cloaking device ever? Say to get through a gate camp in LS or NS? Well you can forget that. Anchor and online this bad boy and there you go, pop every cloaky coming through that gate as once they drop gate cloak they cannot engage their cloak.

Like I said, this is a very stupid idea and will have an impact on players other than AFK cloakers.

That is what I find so amusing about the idiots who show up and do hit and run posts. They post something this stunningly stupid and fail to realize they'll probably get hoisted by their own petard they are just that stupid.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#9903 - 2017-07-15 14:19:49 UTC
Or, you know.... Cloaks won't be your one stop shopping solution to breaking the defenses of your enemy.


You claim over and over that there is no system defense. So you come in, scan it down, pop it, and cloak as usual.

You may even have to work at it a little to get deep into enemy territory.


I'll point out once again that the play you are defending so stubbornly allows you to set up one time, and then be perfectly safe from that point forward until you choose otherwise. A mechanism that forces you to have to do something risky is hardly unreasonable.

There's plenty of details that could be played with. If it's a deployable it could take fuel, have a limited time of operation, even show up on the overview from a distance so you don't have to scan it down.

Might it be defended? Sure... but then it might not either, especially since we are talking about people who can't be bothered to defend their space properly. For those that do, well you can hardly expect to break such defenses solo and without effort, right?
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#9904 - 2017-07-15 17:12:45 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Or, you know.... Cloaks won't be your one stop shopping solution to breaking the defenses of your enemy.


People camp gates other than as defense. And cloaks are not a sure fire way past a camp. As you well know and as I have always pointed out to you...cloaking ships die on gates regularly, now with this kind of a structure they'd pretty much die all the time.

Quote:
You claim over and over that there is no system defense. So you come in, scan it down, pop it, and cloak as usual.


I don't even know what this means. It is up to people to defend their sov. However, they should not be given the means to do so trivially.

Quote:
You may even have to work at it a little to get deep into enemy territory.


That is the case now...but you don't know that because you steadfastly refuse to try being on the other side of this debate. You wallow in your ignorance and actually display as if it were a virtue.

And before you go full r3tard, yes I have been on the other side. I used to do invention in NS and would often move my product to NS trade hubs I had access to via a blockade runner. I ran into a gate camp IN OUR OWN SPACE. So see my point above about people not camping just for defensive purposes. But unlike you I don't come here and whine on the forums about it.

Quote:
I'll point out once again that the play you are defending so stubbornly allows you to set up one time, and then be perfectly safe from that point forward until you choose otherwise. A mechanism that forces you to have to do something risky is hardly unreasonable.


And I'll point out, yet again, that setting to that point of set up is not without risks. And that such cloaked ships being safe until they choose to be is by design. And that when they choose to engage that actually entails risk.

Quote:
There's plenty of details that could be played with. If it's a deployable it could take fuel, have a limited time of operation, even show up on the overview from a distance so you don't have to scan it down.

Might it be defended? Sure... but then it might not either, especially since we are talking about people who can't be bothered to defend their space properly. For those that do, well you can hardly expect to break such defenses solo and without effort, right?


There is nothing to play with, it is so horrible it simply will not happen. I am pointing out how horrible it is.

And it won't be defended. It won't be defended just like bubbles are not defended, or MTUs or mobile depots. Hell, POS are often not defended even when they are sitting on a money moon. Pull your head out of your fourth point of contact...or better yet, go do things other than carebearing and learn about other aspects of the game. At least that way you'd be able to speak from experience and not glaring ignorance.

Further, you should have learned by now, it is simply amazing that you have not, CCP never buffs without also nerfing. This would be a clear buff to ratting and safety in NS and even defending sov. So even if CCP thought this would be a good idea, it would almost surely be accompanied by a nerfs to offset the benefits it would provide. We never get anything for free in this game, and if by some mistake we do...then CCP will nerf it.

CCP will nerf cloaks eventually...but with it will be a nerf that is going to bend you over and take you without any lube (well, for you and those like you that is). Something like local will go away, and with combat recons not showing on d-scan...now you'll only see them with probes. Ratting and running scan probes like a ferret amped cocaine...was that your metaphor? Oh and instead of having to get on grid and cyno in the help, they'll just all warp in on you....all of them. And with their various benefits to ewar and being sturdier ships you'll die even faster now.

Careful what you wish for.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#9905 - 2017-07-25 17:36:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Johnny Blueyes wrote:
Goon response as expected. "You're dumb". And tell me then, this afk cloaker that comes back once per day at a random time, in his cloaky bomber, comes right next to a mining ship, decloaks, drops cyno, ships bridge in, pop the ship, warp out, that guy didn't provide a benefit? Sitting there all day not doing anything or even playing the game. Gets on for two seconds and provides a completely un-counterable benefit.


Well, nobody was AFK there were they now. Next trivial question with an obvious answer?

Quote:
See, if you could read, I said that I don't have a problem with cloakies scouting around looking for targets. I have a problem with the AFK cloaker sitting in a system all day. You have no idea when they are going to be active, and therefore cannot organize a defense at all. There is no counter, it's 100% safe for the attackers. Good job you cowards, you dropped on a mining barge. LOL.


An AFK cloaked ship has never ever destroyed another ship nor ever lit a cyno. Ever.

Quote:
Whatever, done with this conversation. Too many goons in here with awful attitudes. Anybody that dissents is personally attacked and the ISDs are too busy locking harmless threads to correct their buddies.


No, too many people not engaging their brains and realizing they are talking about nerfing cloaks in general then writing, "I said that I don't have a problem with cloakies scouting around looking for targets."

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Greylord Kane
Unleashed' Fury
The Initiative.
#9906 - 2017-07-25 21:56:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Greylord Kane
OKay so that thread got locked..


To answer your question Daichi Yamato this topic will keep going back and forth until CCP decided what they are going to do. I have been in EVE since the beginning so you know, the VERY beginning...... and it's a shame. really. This topic will go back and forth. But yes if requested by CCP I can show over 10 paid accounts from our corp alone to them because of this very problem. And I am sure there are countless more. Hunting is not when you log in at down time and keep your character on until the next downtime,,,,, and just leave for the day no matter how you try to spin it. You can define it how you will, I define it as I will.
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#9907 - 2017-07-25 23:11:48 UTC
Greylord Kane wrote:
OKay so that thread got locked..


To answer your question Daichi Yamato this topic will keep going back and forth until CCP decided what they are going to do. I have been in EVE since the beginning so you know, the VERY beginning...... and it's a shame. really. This topic will go back and forth. But yes if requested by CCP I can show over 10 paid accounts from our corp alone to them because of this very problem. And I am sure there are countless more. Hunting is not when you log in at down time and keep your character on until the next downtime,,,,, and just leave for the day no matter how you try to spin it. You can define it how you will, I define it as I will.


Actually, what they are doing is hoping you'll become complacent. There is nothing wrong with that tactic other than it is boring.

The solution is not to **** off half of the players who use cloaks, nor to **** off the half who prefer to bear it up in NS. But to give and take something from both. Hence Fozzie's statement that until they can address local they are not going to touch cloaking. CCP has also hinted that local may very well go away with the Observation Array. That is players in NS will lose local and can get back aspects of what local gave them and some other possible types of intel including a way to find cloaked ships.

Of course if you simply dock up when a hostile comes into system he'll hopefully go around and tear down all your OAs, or at least render them inoperable until you come out and counter-hack/put them back...at which point who knows what will be waiting for you...but then you turtled up instead of undocking and defending your Stuff™.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#9908 - 2017-07-25 23:32:06 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Greylord Kane wrote:
OKay so that thread got locked..


To answer your question Daichi Yamato this topic will keep going back and forth until CCP decided what they are going to do. I have been in EVE since the beginning so you know, the VERY beginning...... and it's a shame. really. This topic will go back and forth. But yes if requested by CCP I can show over 10 paid accounts from our corp alone to them because of this very problem. And I am sure there are countless more. Hunting is not when you log in at down time and keep your character on until the next downtime,,,,, and just leave for the day no matter how you try to spin it. You can define it how you will, I define it as I will.


Actually, what they are doing is hoping you'll become complacent. There is nothing wrong with that tactic other than it is boring.

The solution is not to **** off half of the players who use cloaks, nor to **** off the half who prefer to bear it up in NS. But to give and take something from both. Hence Fozzie's statement that until they can address local they are not going to touch cloaking. CCP has also hinted that local may very well go away with the Observation Array. That is players in NS will lose local and can get back aspects of what local gave them and some other possible types of intel including a way to find cloaked ships.

Of course if you simply dock up when a hostile comes into system he'll hopefully go around and tear down all your OAs, or at least render them inoperable until you come out and counter-hack/put them back...at which point who knows what will be waiting for you...but then you turtled up instead of undocking and defending your Stuff™.



And it will take a full invasion force to do so, because it won't be possible to push your magic cloak button and be immune until all the defense forces go to bed. If you send one unsupported guy he will get rolled, and the cloaky crowd will wail until the next patch gives them back their candy because suddenly cloaks are 'useless' since they are no longer overpowered.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#9909 - 2017-07-25 23:50:03 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
And it will take a full invasion force to do so, because it won't be possible to push your magic cloak button and be immune until all the defense forces go to bed. If you send one unsupported guy he will get rolled, and the cloaky crowd will wail until the next patch gives them back their candy because suddenly cloaks are 'useless' since they are no longer overpowered.


Good news Mike! If the guy cloaks up and leaves his computer you can get out there and do whatever you want. He's not at his keyboard, so he can't hurt you.

But tell you what, you get nerf the ability to watch your magic intel list (no button pushing required) and we can talk about nerfing cloaks (a button push required!).

No, you can't do industry in deep null in 100% safety. Get used to it.
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#9910 - 2017-07-26 00:03:08 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Greylord Kane wrote:
OKay so that thread got locked..


To answer your question Daichi Yamato this topic will keep going back and forth until CCP decided what they are going to do. I have been in EVE since the beginning so you know, the VERY beginning...... and it's a shame. really. This topic will go back and forth. But yes if requested by CCP I can show over 10 paid accounts from our corp alone to them because of this very problem. And I am sure there are countless more. Hunting is not when you log in at down time and keep your character on until the next downtime,,,,, and just leave for the day no matter how you try to spin it. You can define it how you will, I define it as I will.


Actually, what they are doing is hoping you'll become complacent. There is nothing wrong with that tactic other than it is boring.

The solution is not to **** off half of the players who use cloaks, nor to **** off the half who prefer to bear it up in NS. But to give and take something from both. Hence Fozzie's statement that until they can address local they are not going to touch cloaking. CCP has also hinted that local may very well go away with the Observation Array. That is players in NS will lose local and can get back aspects of what local gave them and some other possible types of intel including a way to find cloaked ships.

Of course if you simply dock up when a hostile comes into system he'll hopefully go around and tear down all your OAs, or at least render them inoperable until you come out and counter-hack/put them back...at which point who knows what will be waiting for you...but then you turtled up instead of undocking and defending your Stuff™.



And it will take a full invasion force to do so, because it won't be possible to push your magic cloak button and be immune until all the defense forces go to bed. If you send one unsupported guy he will get rolled, and the cloaky crowd will wail until the next patch gives them back their candy because suddenly cloaks are 'useless' since they are no longer overpowered.


Not if people dock up....which is what you and Greylord will do. After all I might have a cyno and 5 billion guys waiting to drop on you, right?

You are usually smarter than this Mike. Maybe you should go back to your confusing narrative how cloaks are like but not like stations...but really not like but really like stations. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#9911 - 2017-07-26 12:37:19 UTC
Greylord Kane wrote:
OKay so that thread got locked..


To answer your question Daichi Yamato this topic will keep going back and forth until CCP decided what they are going to do. I have been in EVE since the beginning so you know, the VERY beginning...... and it's a shame. really. This topic will go back and forth. But yes if requested by CCP I can show over 10 paid accounts from our corp alone to them because of this very problem. And I am sure there are countless more. Hunting is not when you log in at down time and keep your character on until the next downtime,,,,, and just leave for the day no matter how you try to spin it. You can define it how you will, I define it as I will.


A whole ten? From the very beginning of the game? Well **** me thats why subs must be down.

So why did these guys quit the entire game rather than move to hi-sec where they can make money without afk cloakers? Did they feel entitled to the best possible rewards the game had to offer but with none of the risk? Seems a bit silly.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9912 - 2017-07-27 01:48:46 UTC
*peaks into the thread, checks watch.... Peaks at the Observatory Array thread.*

Uh huh.... Still at it I see.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#9913 - 2017-07-27 01:58:15 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Greylord Kane wrote:
OKay so that thread got locked..


To answer your question Daichi Yamato this topic will keep going back and forth until CCP decided what they are going to do. I have been in EVE since the beginning so you know, the VERY beginning...... and it's a shame. really. This topic will go back and forth. But yes if requested by CCP I can show over 10 paid accounts from our corp alone to them because of this very problem. And I am sure there are countless more. Hunting is not when you log in at down time and keep your character on until the next downtime,,,,, and just leave for the day no matter how you try to spin it. You can define it how you will, I define it as I will.


Actually, what they are doing is hoping you'll become complacent. There is nothing wrong with that tactic other than it is boring.

The solution is not to **** off half of the players who use cloaks, nor to **** off the half who prefer to bear it up in NS. But to give and take something from both. Hence Fozzie's statement that until they can address local they are not going to touch cloaking. CCP has also hinted that local may very well go away with the Observation Array. That is players in NS will lose local and can get back aspects of what local gave them and some other possible types of intel including a way to find cloaked ships.

Of course if you simply dock up when a hostile comes into system he'll hopefully go around and tear down all your OAs, or at least render them inoperable until you come out and counter-hack/put them back...at which point who knows what will be waiting for you...but then you turtled up instead of undocking and defending your Stuff™.



And it will take a full invasion force to do so, because it won't be possible to push your magic cloak button and be immune until all the defense forces go to bed. If you send one unsupported guy he will get rolled, and the cloaky crowd will wail until the next patch gives them back their candy because suddenly cloaks are 'useless' since they are no longer overpowered.


Not if people dock up....which is what you and Greylord will do. After all I might have a cyno and 5 billion guys waiting to drop on you, right?

You are usually smarter than this Mike. Maybe you should go back to your confusing narrative how cloaks are like but not like stations...but really not like but really like stations. Roll


Nah. I've seen a great many times where people reshipped and came out to fight only to be blue balled until we went to bed. Most of us are willing to take a fight that comes to us, but don't care enough to make it the focus of our gameplay.

Too bad it's not really a sandbox game.
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#9914 - 2017-07-27 04:32:59 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:


Nah. I've seen a great many times where people reshipped and came out to fight only to be blue balled until we went to bed. Most of us are willing to take a fight that comes to us, but don't care enough to make it the focus of our gameplay.

Too bad it's not really a sandbox game.


Maybe...but you won't Mike. You absolutely won't.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#9915 - 2017-07-27 16:30:19 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:


Nah. I've seen a great many times where people reshipped and came out to fight only to be blue balled until we went to bed. Most of us are willing to take a fight that comes to us, but don't care enough to make it the focus of our gameplay.

Too bad it's not really a sandbox game.


Maybe...but you won't Mike. You absolutely won't.


Make it the focus of my playstyle? You are absolutely right. I don't care to participate as someone else's 'content'. I don't care to engage in predatory PvP myself. PvE professions are mostly bait and switch to fool people into being easy targets.

When I was in Null I tried to engage many times, though I don't bother with tackle because my goal was not to get kills, it was to defend my friends. In almost all cases the intruders would run at the sight of Warrior II's being deployed. The rest of my time was spent going from belt to belt killing off NPC rats while my friends did their thing.

So will I engage? sure, though as has been discussed I left Null a long time ago because I don't care for the drama and politics, nothing to do with campers. But I don't care about PvP at all, especially not the weak sauce that is EVE PvP.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#9916 - 2017-07-27 22:21:05 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Nah. I've seen a great many times where people reshipped and came out to fight only to be blue balled until we went to bed. Most of us are willing to take a fight that comes to us, but don't care enough to make it the focus of our gameplay.

Too bad it's not really a sandbox game.


Get in a single fight and link me the killmail and I'll take this seriously.

Come on Mike....13 deaths and no kills in 9 years and you say you are willing to take a fight?
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#9917 - 2017-07-29 01:55:02 UTC
I don't put myself in those situations often. The bulk of my play has been in High Sec. I've fought over damsels and cargo containers a time or two though.

In Null I died once because some folks came through hunting and I don't run just because people are there. I just don't care for it as all. I give precisely zero excrement if you take me seriously or not. Your playstyle isn't the only one, though I suppose according to fozzy and company it's the only one that matters.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#9918 - 2017-07-30 20:52:46 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
I don't put myself in those situations often. The bulk of my play has been in High Sec. I've fought over damsels and cargo containers a time or two though.

In Null I died once because some folks came through hunting and I don't run just because people are there. I just don't care for it as all. I give precisely zero excrement if you take me seriously or not. Your playstyle isn't the only one, though I suppose according to fozzy and company it's the only one that matters.



So why are you posting in an AFK cloakinig thread then, if it doesn't affect you and you have no experience with it in game?

I do nearly 100% PvE. Unlike you I don't try to nerf playstyles I have never dealt with and never run into in game.
Caitlynn Askyra
Unity Ventures
Apocalypse Now.
#9919 - 2017-07-31 00:04:59 UTC
AFK cloaking needs to **** off.

There is no other reason for doing it than to just annoy players. Anybody who says it's for any other reason is talking ****.

There is no counter play. Can't bait them out if they are AFK, can't have everyone sitting around ready to fight all day just in case he does get baited, and that's assuming you can even deal with what they decide to hotdrop.

AFK cloaking doesn't create any content at all, nobody ******* likes this mechanic apart from sad losers who get off on griefing other players. It's totally unbalanced in favour of the cloaker, they decide when to engage, if they even want to engage so it's basically impossible to bait successfully unless they are braindead.

Solution: Make cloak modules deactivate after 10 minutes if not reactivated after 30 seconds then your ship decloaks. If you wanna be that sad loser that wants to cloak in a system all day, then you should be made to ******* sit there and enjoy staring at your cloaked ship all day.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#9920 - 2017-07-31 01:21:51 UTC
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
AFK cloaking needs to **** off.

There is no other reason for doing it than to just annoy players. Anybody who says it's for any other reason is talking ****.

There is no counter play. Can't bait them out if they are AFK, can't have everyone sitting around ready to fight all day just in case he does get baited, and that's assuming you can even deal with what they decide to hotdrop.

AFK cloaking doesn't create any content at all, nobody ******* likes this mechanic apart from sad losers who get off on griefing other players. It's totally unbalanced in favour of the cloaker, they decide when to engage, if they even want to engage so it's basically impossible to bait successfully unless they are braindead.

Solution: Make cloak modules deactivate after 10 minutes if not reactivated after 30 seconds then your ship decloaks. If you wanna be that sad loser that wants to cloak in a system all day, then you should be made to ******* sit there and enjoy staring at your cloaked ship all day.


Counter: watch local, be in comms and in fleet 100% of the time you're in null, rat and mine in groups, never solo. Have a standing defense fleet ready to counter. It's not that hard.

If you simply watch local and intel channels, it's impossible to die when PvEing in sov null unless you're braindead.