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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

First post First post
Author
Kato Szafarchek
Phoenix Federation of Planets
Intrepid Crossing
#9921 - 2017-07-31 05:41:56 UTC
Holy cow, I'd need a fleet of orcas to mine the salt from Teckos.

Where to begin on my perspective? I've turned to the life of J-space months ago and dealing with and engaging in cloaky activities is just a way of life. You never know who's truly in system because local doesn't exist so you go about your business assuming your every move is being watched. D-scan is a religious practice, and cloaked scout ships are incredibly important to finding content, whether it be pve or pvp.

What makes nullsec players so uppity about an afk player sitting cloaked in system is more of just the fact that they are just there, as a neutral or hostile. They know he's there but there's nothing they can do, and it's that helplessness that frustrates the living daylights out of them. I can relate from my short few months spent in nullsec.

Let me tell you a story. There was a pilot who sat in this single system near low-sec that would be afk for weeks on end before he tries to jump a vulnerable ship. Not the brightest pilot too. He successfully jumped and bubbled my Nereus but then he contracted the infamous Squirrel Syndrome as he shot at the Hobgoblin I spam (doing almost no DPS against him) instead of shooting at the industrial that had a tech 1 shield fit (that he could've killed if he focused on it). He was eventually forced to flee back to the abyss when the relief fleet arrived, and as far as I know he' still there to this day, waiting like the troll under the bridge for his next victim. After living in the wormholes where bait ships and ambushes are an everyday fact of life, I know how I could've fitted that nereus to tackle the little bugger and hold him until backup arrives.

Some people have been mentioning local chat. Local acts as a Godsend and a crutch for Nullsec players. It's a Godsend to very easily see threats inbound (without spamming V) and scram before the threat lands on grid. At the same time they've grown so dependent on it that it stifles their creativity when it comes to baiting a cloaky pirate into a fight.
Caitlynn Askyra
Unity Ventures
Apocalypse Now.
#9922 - 2017-07-31 07:23:40 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:


Counter: watch local, be in comms and in fleet 100% of the time you're in null, rat and mine in groups, never solo. Have a standing defense fleet ready to counter. It's not that hard.

If you simply watch local and intel channels, it's impossible to die when PvEing in sov null unless you're braindead.



What a dumb response.
Caitlynn Askyra
Unity Ventures
Apocalypse Now.
#9923 - 2017-07-31 07:27:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlynn Askyra
Kato Szafarchek wrote:
Holy cow, I'd need a fleet of orcas to mine the salt from Teckos.

Where to begin on my perspective? I've turned to the life of J-space months ago and dealing with and engaging in cloaky activities is just a way of life. You never know who's truly in system because local doesn't exist so you go about your business assuming your every move is being watched. D-scan is a religious practice, and cloaked scout ships are incredibly important to finding content, whether it be pve or pvp.

What makes nullsec players so uppity about an afk player sitting cloaked in system is more of just the fact that they are just there, as a neutral or hostile. They know he's there but there's nothing they can do, and it's that helplessness that frustrates the living daylights out of them. I can relate from my short few months spent in nullsec.

Let me tell you a story. There was a pilot who sat in this single system near low-sec that would be afk for weeks on end before he tries to jump a vulnerable ship. Not the brightest pilot too. He successfully jumped and bubbled my Nereus but then he contracted the infamous Squirrel Syndrome as he shot at the Hobgoblin I spam (doing almost no DPS against him) instead of shooting at the industrial that had a tech 1 shield fit (that he could've killed if he focused on it). He was eventually forced to flee back to the abyss when the relief fleet arrived, and as far as I know he' still there to this day, waiting like the troll under the bridge for his next victim. After living in the wormholes where bait ships and ambushes are an everyday fact of life, I know how I could've fitted that nereus to tackle the little bugger and hold him until backup arrives.

Some people have been mentioning local chat. Local acts as a Godsend and a crutch for Nullsec players. It's a Godsend to very easily see threats inbound (without spamming V) and scram before the threat lands on grid. At the same time they've grown so dependent on it that it stifles their creativity when it comes to baiting a cloaky pirate into a fight.


Afk cloaking adds absolutely nothing interesting to the game. Nobody cares enough to form up all day trying to bait some little **** who just wants to grief. There are enough reds I have to deal with where I'm based anyway because we have every alliance in the game roaming through the space. So while your little theories are great that we can bait him out and kill him with a fleet on standby 24 hours a day, the reality is nobody gives a **** if it's not in the system they live in so it's impossible to stop someone afk cloaking, and that's the problem. NO ******* COUNTERPLAY.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#9924 - 2017-08-01 00:14:44 UTC
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:


Counter: watch local, be in comms and in fleet 100% of the time you're in null, rat and mine in groups, never solo. Have a standing defense fleet ready to counter. It's not that hard.

If you simply watch local and intel channels, it's impossible to die when PvEing in sov null unless you're braindead.



What a dumb response.


How am I wrong? Sorry for giving you a hard counter to cloaks.

You can't nerf cloaking without nerfing local.

Give me a ballpark number, what % of the time you're logged in and in nullsec are you in fleet and on comms?
Caitlynn Askyra
Unity Ventures
Apocalypse Now.
#9925 - 2017-08-01 15:57:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlynn Askyra
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:


Counter: watch local, be in comms and in fleet 100% of the time you're in null, rat and mine in groups, never solo. Have a standing defense fleet ready to counter. It's not that hard.

If you simply watch local and intel channels, it's impossible to die when PvEing in sov null unless you're braindead.



What a dumb response.


How am I wrong? Sorry for giving you a hard counter to cloaks.

You can't nerf cloaking without nerfing local.

Give me a ballpark number, what % of the time you're logged in and in nullsec are you in fleet and on comms?


It's totally irrelevant to my point and the suggestion I made doesn't nerf cloaking, it's nerfs being afk and still having the exact same affect on other players as if you were playing. YOU SHOULD BE AT THE KEYBOARD!. It's the dumbest mechanic ever and I can't believe you people don't understand why.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#9926 - 2017-08-01 22:22:58 UTC
I can't believe you dont understand how theres nothing wrong with being afk.

Why should they be at their keyboard?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#9927 - 2017-08-01 23:35:11 UTC
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
It's totally irrelevant to my point and the suggestion I made doesn't nerf cloaking, it's nerfs being afk and still having the exact same affect on other players as if you were playing. YOU SHOULD BE AT THE KEYBOARD!. It's the dumbest mechanic ever and I can't believe you people don't understand why.


How do you have any affect on players when you're AFK? How can an empty chair in front of a keyboard hurt you?

Unless you don't do PvE unless your system is 100% blue, in which case the real problem is that null is entirely too safe.
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#9928 - 2017-08-02 04:03:48 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:


Nah. I've seen a great many times where people reshipped and came out to fight only to be blue balled until we went to bed. Most of us are willing to take a fight that comes to us, but don't care enough to make it the focus of our gameplay.

Too bad it's not really a sandbox game.


Maybe...but you won't Mike. You absolutely won't.


Make it the focus of my playstyle? You are absolutely right. I don't care to participate as someone else's 'content'.


Jesus....

That is the point, we are all here to be the content for someone else. The difference between you and me is I admit it and accept it, while you do not. Yes, I might be blown up. I might blow somebody up. It is a game and that is how this particular game is played.

So yeah, it is in part about your "playstyle". You just don't seem to get the point of this game.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#9929 - 2017-08-02 04:06:19 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
I don't put myself in those situations often. The bulk of my play has been in High Sec. I've fought over damsels and cargo containers a time or two though.

In Null I died once because some folks came through hunting and I don't run just because people are there. I just don't care for it as all. I give precisely zero excrement if you take me seriously or not. Your playstyle isn't the only one, though I suppose according to fozzy and company it's the only one that matters.



So why are you posting in an AFK cloakinig thread then, if it doesn't affect you and you have no experience with it in game?

I do nearly 100% PvE. Unlike you I don't try to nerf playstyles I have never dealt with and never run into in game.


Italics, bold and underlining all added. That is the key part.

And I'll add that the typical response is to nerf the playstyle of people who are not the actual problem.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#9930 - 2017-08-02 04:10:17 UTC
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
AFK cloaking needs to **** off.

There is no other reason for doing it than to just annoy players. Anybody who says it's for any other reason is talking ****.

There is no counter play. Can't bait them out if they are AFK, can't have everyone sitting around ready to fight all day just in case he does get baited, and that's assuming you can even deal with what they decide to hotdrop.

AFK cloaking doesn't create any content at all, nobody ******* likes this mechanic apart from sad losers who get off on griefing other players. It's totally unbalanced in favour of the cloaker, they decide when to engage, if they even want to engage so it's basically impossible to bait successfully unless they are braindead.

Solution: Make cloak modules deactivate after 10 minutes if not reactivated after 30 seconds then your ship decloaks. If you wanna be that sad loser that wants to cloak in a system all day, then you should be made to ******* sit there and enjoy staring at your cloaked ship all day.


There has been plenty of suggestions given for how to deal with an AFK cloaker. Instead you come in here and act like a petulant jerk.

Yes, a cloaked ship decides when to engage. Working as intended. You don't have to bait them, in fact if they are indeed truly AFK then baiting is a waste of time, get in fleet and go out and do something like mine, rat, etc. In a fleet there is greater safety. Yes, you won't make as much ISK, but you are actually making ISK and doing something.

Why should people who are ATK have their game nerfed for you? Please try to justify this with something other than unadulterated nonsense and Bravo Sierra.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#9931 - 2017-08-02 04:19:09 UTC
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
Kato Szafarchek wrote:
Holy cow, I'd need a fleet of orcas to mine the salt from Teckos.

Where to begin on my perspective? I've turned to the life of J-space months ago and dealing with and engaging in cloaky activities is just a way of life. You never know who's truly in system because local doesn't exist so you go about your business assuming your every move is being watched. D-scan is a religious practice, and cloaked scout ships are incredibly important to finding content, whether it be pve or pvp.

What makes nullsec players so uppity about an afk player sitting cloaked in system is more of just the fact that they are just there, as a neutral or hostile. They know he's there but there's nothing they can do, and it's that helplessness that frustrates the living daylights out of them. I can relate from my short few months spent in nullsec.

Let me tell you a story. There was a pilot who sat in this single system near low-sec that would be afk for weeks on end before he tries to jump a vulnerable ship. Not the brightest pilot too. He successfully jumped and bubbled my Nereus but then he contracted the infamous Squirrel Syndrome as he shot at the Hobgoblin I spam (doing almost no DPS against him) instead of shooting at the industrial that had a tech 1 shield fit (that he could've killed if he focused on it). He was eventually forced to flee back to the abyss when the relief fleet arrived, and as far as I know he' still there to this day, waiting like the troll under the bridge for his next victim. After living in the wormholes where bait ships and ambushes are an everyday fact of life, I know how I could've fitted that nereus to tackle the little bugger and hold him until backup arrives.

Some people have been mentioning local chat. Local acts as a Godsend and a crutch for Nullsec players. It's a Godsend to very easily see threats inbound (without spamming V) and scram before the threat lands on grid. At the same time they've grown so dependent on it that it stifles their creativity when it comes to baiting a cloaky pirate into a fight.


Afk cloaking adds absolutely nothing interesting to the game. Nobody cares enough to form up all day trying to bait some little **** who just wants to grief. There are enough reds I have to deal with where I'm based anyway because we have every alliance in the game roaming through the space. So while your little theories are great that we can bait him out and kill him with a fleet on standby 24 hours a day, the reality is nobody gives a **** if it's not in the system they live in so it's impossible to stop someone afk cloaking, and that's the problem. NO ******* COUNTERPLAY.


You don't form up all day to bait someone. You form up, get in a fleet with PvP fit ships, if you have some alts maybe bring some logi. Go run anomalies. Make ISK. If they drop on you, then you kill them. If you really have a fleet standing by...you are doing it wrong. Chances are they are AFK. So by being in a fleet with PvP fits you get to make ISK, keep up your indexes, and if they drop on you then you get even more fun, and if not you have successfully countered them if they are hopping to catch you unawares of wear down your index levels.

You can also look at killboards and dotlan. You can get an idea of when people are active relative to your time zone. You can also look at the map and see if any systems within BLOPs range are occupied, if they are send a scout.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#9932 - 2017-08-02 04:20:20 UTC
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:


It's totally irrelevant to my point and the suggestion I made doesn't nerf cloaking, it's nerfs being afk and still having the exact same affect on other players as if you were playing. YOU SHOULD BE AT THE KEYBOARD!. It's the dumbest mechanic ever and I can't believe you people don't understand why.


Why? I can affect the game while not even being logged in.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Caitlynn Askyra
Unity Ventures
Apocalypse Now.
#9933 - 2017-08-02 10:54:00 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:


It's totally irrelevant to my point and the suggestion I made doesn't nerf cloaking, it's nerfs being afk and still having the exact same affect on other players as if you were playing. YOU SHOULD BE AT THE KEYBOARD!. It's the dumbest mechanic ever and I can't believe you people don't understand why.


Why? I can affect the game while not even being logged in.


Not in the way that you can by afk cloaking, so don't pretend you can, not discussing with you either because its clear you just want to drag this into stupid exceptions just to try and be right.
Caitlynn Askyra
Unity Ventures
Apocalypse Now.
#9934 - 2017-08-02 11:06:00 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
It's totally irrelevant to my point and the suggestion I made doesn't nerf cloaking, it's nerfs being afk and still having the exact same affect on other players as if you were playing. YOU SHOULD BE AT THE KEYBOARD!. It's the dumbest mechanic ever and I can't believe you people don't understand why.


How do you have any affect on players when you're AFK? How can an empty chair in front of a keyboard hurt you?

Unless you don't do PvE unless your system is 100% blue, in which case the real problem is that null is entirely too safe.


I can't treat him as afk even if he is ffs. HOW HARD IS THIS TO UNDERSTAND?!

Why the **** would i PVE when reds are in system with the hotdropping mechanic? That's the quickest way to lose ISK, my alliance doesn't have the capabilities to defend against what the hotdroppers around here can drop so get that into your skull and stop talking rubbish.

Seriously, what is the problem with me wanting to PVE for a bit to chill? Why shouldn't it be relatively safe in sov space? ISN'T THAT THE POINT IN HAVING ALLIANCES AND SOVEREIGNTY?

Anyway besides the point, afk cloaking adds nothing to the game, it's a just a **** mechanic for shitters to abuse, IT DOESN'T CREATE ANY CONTENT.
Caitlynn Askyra
Unity Ventures
Apocalypse Now.
#9935 - 2017-08-02 11:08:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlynn Askyra
Teckos Pech wrote:
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
AFK cloaking needs to **** off.

There is no other reason for doing it than to just annoy players. Anybody who says it's for any other reason is talking ****.

There is no counter play. Can't bait them out if they are AFK, can't have everyone sitting around ready to fight all day just in case he does get baited, and that's assuming you can even deal with what they decide to hotdrop.

AFK cloaking doesn't create any content at all, nobody ******* likes this mechanic apart from sad losers who get off on griefing other players. It's totally unbalanced in favour of the cloaker, they decide when to engage, if they even want to engage so it's basically impossible to bait successfully unless they are braindead.

Solution: Make cloak modules deactivate after 10 minutes if not reactivated after 30 seconds then your ship decloaks. If you wanna be that sad loser that wants to cloak in a system all day, then you should be made to ******* sit there and enjoy staring at your cloaked ship all day.


There has been plenty of suggestions given for how to deal with an AFK cloaker. Instead you come in here and act like a petulant jerk.

Yes, a cloaked ship decides when to engage. Working as intended. You don't have to bait them, in fact if they are indeed truly AFK then baiting is a waste of time, get in fleet and go out and do something like mine, rat, etc. In a fleet there is greater safety. Yes, you won't make as much ISK, but you are actually making ISK and doing something.

Why should people who are ATK have their game nerfed for you? Please try to justify this with something other than unadulterated nonsense and Bravo Sierra.



Not the sharpest knife in the drawer are you. What's the point even risking it? I just move next door. You might ask what is the problem, well answer me what is the ******* point in this mechanic other than to grief? It achieves nothing else.

Also if you actually bothered to read my post in an attempt to understand it, you would see my solution doesn't nerf being at the keyboard. If you are at the keyboard you can stop yourself de-cloaking, nothing unfair about that what-so-ever.

AFK cloaking isn't a playstyle. BEING AFK IS NOT A PLAYSTYLE.
Caitlynn Askyra
Unity Ventures
Apocalypse Now.
#9936 - 2017-08-02 11:22:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlynn Askyra
Teckos Pech wrote:
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
Kato Szafarchek wrote:
Holy cow, I'd need a fleet of orcas to mine the salt from Teckos.

Where to begin on my perspective? I've turned to the life of J-space months ago and dealing with and engaging in cloaky activities is just a way of life. You never know who's truly in system because local doesn't exist so you go about your business assuming your every move is being watched. D-scan is a religious practice, and cloaked scout ships are incredibly important to finding content, whether it be pve or pvp.

What makes nullsec players so uppity about an afk player sitting cloaked in system is more of just the fact that they are just there, as a neutral or hostile. They know he's there but there's nothing they can do, and it's that helplessness that frustrates the living daylights out of them. I can relate from my short few months spent in nullsec.

Let me tell you a story. There was a pilot who sat in this single system near low-sec that would be afk for weeks on end before he tries to jump a vulnerable ship. Not the brightest pilot too. He successfully jumped and bubbled my Nereus but then he contracted the infamous Squirrel Syndrome as he shot at the Hobgoblin I spam (doing almost no DPS against him) instead of shooting at the industrial that had a tech 1 shield fit (that he could've killed if he focused on it). He was eventually forced to flee back to the abyss when the relief fleet arrived, and as far as I know he' still there to this day, waiting like the troll under the bridge for his next victim. After living in the wormholes where bait ships and ambushes are an everyday fact of life, I know how I could've fitted that nereus to tackle the little bugger and hold him until backup arrives.

Some people have been mentioning local chat. Local acts as a Godsend and a crutch for Nullsec players. It's a Godsend to very easily see threats inbound (without spamming V) and scram before the threat lands on grid. At the same time they've grown so dependent on it that it stifles their creativity when it comes to baiting a cloaky pirate into a fight.


Afk cloaking adds absolutely nothing interesting to the game. Nobody cares enough to form up all day trying to bait some little **** who just wants to grief. There are enough reds I have to deal with where I'm based anyway because we have every alliance in the game roaming through the space. So while your little theories are great that we can bait him out and kill him with a fleet on standby 24 hours a day, the reality is nobody gives a **** if it's not in the system they live in so it's impossible to stop someone afk cloaking, and that's the problem. NO ******* COUNTERPLAY.


You don't form up all day to bait someone. You form up, get in a fleet with PvP fit ships, if you have some alts maybe bring some logi. Go run anomalies. Make ISK. If they drop on you, then you kill them. If you really have a fleet standing by...you are doing it wrong. Chances are they are AFK. So by being in a fleet with PvP fits you get to make ISK, keep up your indexes, and if they drop on you then you get even more fun, and if not you have successfully countered them if they are hopping to catch you unawares of wear down your index levels.

You can also look at killboards and dotlan. You can get an idea of when people are active relative to your time zone. You can also look at the map and see if any systems within BLOPs range are occupied, if they are send a scout.


Easy for you to say as a member of goonswarm carebears but try doing anything in providence with all the activity. Quiet time doesn't exist in provi. We have hotdroppers that have dropped titans on us before and I know where they are staged, it's not helpful information. You're just talking rubbish pal.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#9937 - 2017-08-02 11:59:33 UTC
The point in the mechanic is they are hunting you. But if it wasn't for local they wouldn't even need to pretend to be afk.

No local, no afk cloaking.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Caitlynn Askyra
Unity Ventures
Apocalypse Now.
#9938 - 2017-08-02 12:06:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlynn Askyra
Daichi Yamato wrote:
The point in the mechanic is they are hunting you. But if it wasn't for local they wouldn't even need to pretend to be afk.

No local, no afk cloaking.


Whatever dude, they aren't hunting anything.

Remove hotdropping then you can remove local. If you tried to remove local and not hotdropping then you would lose half the players in the game because there would be zero point in trying to mine or rat.

You can hunt just fine with local anyway, I can do it, it's not hard. Maybe you are just bad. Maybe that's why you have to hunt miners instead of players that want to PVP.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#9939 - 2017-08-02 15:46:45 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
I can't believe you dont understand how theres nothing wrong with being afk.

Why should they be at their keyboard?



Not a thing wrong with being AFK.

The issue is a situation where being AFK is the optimal choice for your chosen task, unlike anything else where you can afk but it comes at the price of more danger, lost income, etc.
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#9940 - 2017-08-02 17:10:06 UTC
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
The point in the mechanic is they are hunting you. But if it wasn't for local they wouldn't even need to pretend to be afk.

No local, no afk cloaking.


Whatever dude, they aren't hunting anything.

Remove hotdropping then you can remove local. If you tried to remove local and not hotdropping then you would lose half the players in the game because there would be zero point in trying to mine or rat.

You can hunt just fine with local anyway, I can do it, it's not hard. Maybe you are just bad. Maybe that's why you have to hunt miners instead of players that want to PVP.


Yes, they are. They are waiting for you to get complacent. They do this because of local. And no, hot dropping should never ever be removed. It has already been nerfed (and we see yet again the "just one more nerf" attitude).

Yes, you can hunt without AFK cloaking, but you have to count on the person not watching local. As soon as they see you in local they can scuttle off to safety.

When the Observatory Array is released we will likely see local go away and you can probe down cloakers. But until then, the current situation is balanced and should remain.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online