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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

First post First post First post
Author
ISD Stall
ISD STAR
#1081 - 2017-06-10 05:49:24 UTC
Quote:
7. Discussion of real life religion and politics is prohibited.

Discussion of real life religion and politics is strictly prohibited on the EVE Online forums. Discussions of this nature often creates animosity between forum users due to real life political or military conflicts. CCP promotes the growth of a gaming community where equality is at the forefront. Nationalist, religious or political affiliations are not part of EVE Online, and should not be part of discussion on the EVE Online forums.


Cleaned up one post according to this rule.
Khara Hirl
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1082 - 2017-06-10 06:01:24 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Luc Chastot wrote:
Incursions, bounties and all other faucets are the things you should be looking at to fix the money supply; reduce them and find other ways to reward players. EVE also needs more sinks and greater incentives to fight and lose stuff.

It boggles me how uncreative this solution is.


You shouldn't post on the forums, it removes all doubts about the low levels of your intelligence. NPC bounties are by far and away the single largest ISK faucet in the game.

Last month bounty prizes lead to over 69 trillion ISK entering the economy. By comparison incursions lead to just under 10 trillion ISK. In other words, incursions produce 1/7th the amount of ISK that bounty prizes produce. In fact, bounty prizes are 1.6x larger than all other ISK faucets combined. You really come across as an entitled jackass with this post. "Don't nerf my ISK making, literally nerf everyone else's."



So you lower the amount of bounties on the npc's... this really isn't that damn hard. They have 5 economists working for them. CCP has some other ploy they are going to bring in later with some real life currency trade to make carrier ratting better, just watch. There is something else behind this.

How do I know? Because if there was 150k people online versus 35k this issue would of came and gone, they are lying about something.
JC Mieyli
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1083 - 2017-06-10 06:05:49 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Mieyli
well after seeing the monthly report and reading ccp quant reddit post
it doesnt seem so much like a conspiracy anymore
but probably still a pretty bad move for ccp
i cant say i mind though at least people wont drop carriers on me
Skorpynekomimi
#1084 - 2017-06-10 06:11:23 UTC
All these nullbear tears about shutting off their free ISK. I love it.

Economic PVP

Dark Reignz
Four-Q
#1085 - 2017-06-10 06:12:06 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
[img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img]  [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img]

Hi Space Friends,
Coming with our release on Tuesday, we’re significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters.

Why:
We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties.

This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players.

We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but we’re confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP.

What:
  • Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
  • Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
  • Support Fighters: No Change
  • Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
  • NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.


We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.


Fighters nerfs/ buffs really don't affect me currently but what I noticed about the graphs you refer too is that you are nerfing PVE in high sec specifically but also with release of BR Shipyards in Delve which is where you see the uptrend in isk made.

Sorry but nerfing PVE everywhere and adding NPC speciallity stuff in certain systems is only going to highlight or even exaggerate isk generation.

Stop nerfing sh!t pls

Troll Mode - ON

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1086 - 2017-06-10 06:13:40 UTC
JC Mieyli wrote:
well after seeing the monthly report and reading ccp quant reddit post
it doesnt seem so much like a conspiracy anymore
but probably still a pretty bad move for ccp
i cant say i mind though at least people wont drop carriers on me

But if it's true that it's the 1% of the 1% according to CCP Quant, then how can this be a threat to the economy, which is CCP Larrikin's contention in the OP of this thread?

Even taking the PCU from each day around 40,000.

1% of 1% is 4 people online at any moment in time.

Something in the information CCP is feeding us is not right. Quant's post is the most likely one that is a generalization (even though he claimed it as a literal statement), in which case, CCP are pissing off way more than 1% of 1%.

Screw CCP for f'ing up PVP. Find a different solution if there is a problem. Literally, if 4 people online threaten the EVE economy, then fighter DPS isn't the problem. There's far deeper problems then that.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Eileen Black
Placeholder Corporation 51023
#1087 - 2017-06-10 06:16:52 UTC
Just change anoms.

Make each wave have a standard completion time at 1500 dps.
If you kill stuff faster, you will have to wait until next one spawns.
Say you have a wave timed at 5m.
If you finish it in 5 or more new wave spawns immediately.
If you take 3 minutes youd have to wait say 1 minute for next spawn.


Problem fixed without killing pvp carrier uses
GothicNightmare
Two Birds One Cup
No Forks Given
#1088 - 2017-06-10 06:28:14 UTC
holy crap are you kidding me... 15% more likely NPC's will shoot fighters than current... they already get shot into oblivion and you want them to die even more... well done.

I said this before about the economy thing and I'll say it again here and hope... HOPE... CCP will see this and think for more than half a second before dismissing it.
The problem lately is not the isk making or the fighter damage... the problem is the current meta.
Back when rogue drones still dropped minerals, ships were fairly inexpensive and lots of larger ship combat was plentiful (battleship / battlecruiser / hac / faction) But after the rogue drones were changed to bounties and no drop, all the power was put into the miners/industrialists, and prices went up, nearly doubling. So everyone went to cheaper ships... then came the T1 cruiser 'balance' which made the T1 cruiser a mere fraction of the cost of T2 and just as good, so the way of the T2 cruiser faded out quickly for cost effiency. Then interceptors got a nice buff... then came the tech 3 destroyer, even cheaper faster and more fun to play, more efficient than an assault frig for similar cost with lots more options. You see where this is going... changes pushed people away from spending isk. Now all you see is Machariel fleets, caracal fleets, t3d fleets, or ceptor fleets. There's such a wide array of ships in eve, but the changes to everything forced people away from the spending to go with inexpensive way to play.
So all that isk people are making isn't going anywhere because they have no reason to spend it. You make 30 million isk roughly on a haven, it's 200mil for an Ishtar, you need at least 7 havens to buy and fit this ship... or 1 or 2 havens can buy you a few vexors and get just as much fun out of it more frequently for a fraction of the spend. So hard core ratters (I will use myself for instance) who need more isk, for like plexes or replacing fighters or command ships for larger fleets, need more isk, but in the mean time until it's time to fleet up, doing ratting between work and sleep, sleep and work... that isk just builds up, there's nothing to spend it on. Why would you spend hundreds of millions when someone with 10 milion ship can kill you just as easily. Honestly look at *ALL* the spending problems before just focusing on "oh too much isk must punish them for having nothing else to do".
As for isk faucet... I hear incursions are just as good, or better, than null ratting... just sayin'
Nuhrp
The Ascended Refugees
#1089 - 2017-06-10 06:34:13 UTC
Not sure there is a problem for you to solve here. You made a funny statement.

Too big of an isk faucet for too few a people.
Are you trying to get all players on an even keel? Are you some sort of a space 'wealth spreader'? You know this is a game right and that we pay. Those who paid the most and have accrued the most skills have the right to have bigger and more effective toys. STOP trying to be the wealth equalizer.
Nuhrp
The Ascended Refugees
#1090 - 2017-06-10 06:38:54 UTC
Suitonia wrote:
Great changes


Let's remember who said this so this person never gets a vote again.
xOmGx
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1091 - 2017-06-10 06:59:07 UTC
Player driven economy they told

Unscripted gameplay they told

in reality

Ecnomy rules are dictated by CCP and player intervention is limited by what CCP want

(Mining nerfs, Invasion multiple nerfs, more mining nerfs, ratting nerfs, plexing nerfs)

Unscripted gameplay face same thing if CCP do not like how players build game play of EvE CCP just change it to what they see without ANY feedback from the player base and without listening - they just do **** they see fit

(Capital turrets nerfs, Supers HP nerfs, POS nerfs, SOV warfire stupid changes, and so on)


Everytime players find something comfortable in EvE CCP comes and nerf / destroy / kill it
Shogun A
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1092 - 2017-06-10 06:59:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Shogun A
CCP Quant says the system is being abused you 1% of the 1% for RMT purposes

So you nerf into oblivion carriers and supercarriers for the entire playerbase???????????????

So to solve a problem with a small number of people you smash the rest of us?????????????????


If CCP Quant was trying to help - he has made CCP devs look even more stupid - as a justification for the change he has plumbed the depths of idiocy

FIX THE RMT ISSUE NOT SHAFT THE REST OF US!!!!!!!!!!


Lazy lazy decision
Mazzalan Otoro
Chemotherapy
#1093 - 2017-06-10 07:08:07 UTC
I've played eve for over 10 years and I just have to say CCP, WOW... .. .. ..... .. .um,huh

Of course there's more isk coming in!!!

You introduced skill extractor/injectors (people hit the ratting/mining fields, active accounts came back and people spent a little more RL money buying plex for injectors to train those long skills, CCP went \o/ << THE MISTAKE

oh wait, What! {no more actually having to actually "train you skills" I just need enough isk}
= more capital pilots ( Stupid easy to get into the largest ships in the game what used to take months now can be done in 5min with enough isk,)

= "Everyone" now from the 1 day old toon to the vet's can fly what ever they want when ever they want!

Don't put a band aid on something that isn't the issue...
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#1094 - 2017-06-10 07:10:24 UTC
Kassimila wrote:
I'm sure no one from CCP will actually read this thread, but this is not how you solve this problem. Here is exactly how you solve the issue that is null sec isk printing issue.

Step #1 . Remove bounties, replace with tags/blue loot/etc that is sold to NPCs for the same value.

TADA! Now people actually have to stop and loot the sites. Or use MTUs which other players can come in and blow up/take!

This will slow down peoples overall income generation as having to actually interact with the wrecks instead of being able to just churn and burn sites.

This change will allow small roaming gangs to actually takes things away from people that just warp out and dock when you hit local. Probe down MTU = Profit.

Step #2. Remove ESS's from the game. Instant 5% isk generation reduction.

Step #3. Increase sales tax to generate more isk sink.


Notice how these changes deal with the actual economy instead of nerfing a particular ship type, that is instantly defeated by a single falcon.

PS. You could also greatly increase the chance of an NPC capital spawn if you're ratting in a capital. Increase the damage on the NPC capitals so they actually pose a threat. I always found it stupid that I could solo the NPC dread in a thanatos with T1 fighters.....and a passive shield tank.

Yes, but CCP will not listen to someone with logical arguments.
Duche Penken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1095 - 2017-06-10 07:11:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Duche Penken
Why dont You just sell the game if you dont want to work on it instead of going down unpopular like this?
You didnt even fix the problem of fighters being stuck on objects and now they will pop like popcorns, fix first, nerf later.
Bron Ander Haltern
Special Mining Ops Inc.
#1096 - 2017-06-10 07:18:47 UTC
CCP Do you realize that by making that simple cut you make caldari and amarr carrier/supers a pure hobby horse crap! Evil
Krypleria
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1097 - 2017-06-10 07:20:36 UTC
Bron Ander Haltern wrote:
CCP Do you realize that by making that simple cut you make caldari and amarr carrier/supers a pure hobby horse crap! Evil


They dont even play their own game man.... dont expect them to understand !
Radoslav Stfnov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1098 - 2017-06-10 07:30:14 UTC
Well, we shall see what PVP gangs will catch and kill when no players want to fly those things anymore. Smart enough players will find ways to make money again - Incursions, 10/10 sites, farming "Enemy around", etc.

Nerfing the income will directly nerf the pvp too. I used to make 200 mil per 1 hour. And then just spend all the money on pvp ships and go fight. Now... I will have to do same nett income for two hours (cause fighters will die more), and probably I will get bored or just my free time after work will end and I will turn off my PC.

Second option is if I loose the carrier one day, just to stay with the basic account and fly with caracals. Anyway, CCP should work a way more about creating content in order to revive paying with real money.

I mean more interesting sites - higher diversity , more pve activities, pvp tournaments (for newbies, with restrictions to ship classes for example), more intelligent AI in sites, better loot system (atm dreadnought drops total **** for regular pve player - it can drop various pvp blueprints, proper pvp modules and etc.).

Weekly challenges - like destroy 10 enemy (pvp) ships and you will get 100 000 skill points free... etc, destroy 15 MTU, destroy mobile depots, there might be rewards for flying different classes of ships - like having all frigs from all pirate factions gives you "something"...

Joe Barbarian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1099 - 2017-06-10 07:34:25 UTC
Radoslav Stfnov wrote:
Well, we shall see what PVP gangs will catch and kill when no players want to fly those things anymore. Smart enough players will find ways to make money again - Incursions, 10/10 sites, farming "Enemy around", etc.

Nerfing the income will directly nerf the pvp too. I used to make 200 mil per 1 hour. And then just spend all the money on pvp ships and go fight. Now... I will have to do same nett income for two hours (cause fighters will die more), and probably I will get bored or just my free time after work will end and I will turn off my PC.

Second option is if I loose the carrier one day, just to stay with the basic account and fly with caracals. Anyway, CCP should work a way more about creating content in order to revive paying with real money.

I mean more interesting sites - higher diversity , more pve activities, pvp tournaments (for newbies, with restrictions to ship classes for example), more intelligent AI in sites, better loot system (atm dreadnought drops total **** for regular pve player - it can drop various pvp blueprints, proper pvp modules and etc.).

Weekly challenges - like destroy 10 enemy (pvp) ships and you will get 100 000 skill points free... etc, destroy 15 MTU, destroy mobile depots, there might be rewards for flying different classes of ships - like having all frigs from all pirate factions gives you "something"...



All of these idea's are as bad as the ones in the OP. I hope none of these comes to pass.
Khara Hirl
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1100 - 2017-06-10 07:36:49 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
All these nullbear tears about shutting off their free ISK. I love it.



Free isk? yeah because a 22b isk super carrier minimum is free isk, shove it up your ass.