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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

First post First post First post
Author
Sirran The Lunatic
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#941 - 2017-06-09 22:43:48 UTC
Lol, ok. This will balance pve ticks? Ok ok, good thing no single person knows what happens when you bosun a Haven. Great fix.

But yeah, definitely nerf the most interesting and interactive change you've made to gameplay since I started playing in 2011. Lol
blaedin jordan
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#942 - 2017-06-09 22:49:43 UTC
Yeah it really is just appalling how negative the response to something CCP is doing to "fix the game." They need to cancel the update until they can better assess the situation they are creating and sell their case a little better to playerbase. I think we deserve it for the years many of us have invested into this game, often with 2 or more accounts as well.
Kalain Kamerov
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#943 - 2017-06-09 22:50:55 UTC
Guys,
Before y'all go rantzerker, please look at the economic report. CCP is nerfing it because ratting incomes have more than doubled over the last year.

Peace is good for business it seems.Incomes Loss/Gains by Type
Ralen Zateki
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#944 - 2017-06-09 22:51:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralen Zateki
Lord forbid they do something like put gates on sites to stop Super ratting and/ or put a timer mechanism on how many sites you can run in a given period (I mean, really, from a Lore standpoint - for those who give a **** about such things - what sense does it make anyway that you can blap the same f-ing NPC anomaly's again and again).

I'm sure some nerds out there multi-box carriers but honestly since the sig changes I don't even know why I'd try to put myself through that.

No, let's drop damage on fighters so no one uses the damn things in PVP.
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#945 - 2017-06-09 22:51:58 UTC
Aldent Arkanon wrote:
CCP Quant wrote:
What we have here is literally the top 1% of the top 1% screaming their lungs out over these nerfs, while trying to convince the rest of the player-base to think that CCP is ruining the game for everyone. What we are really doing is keeping it from becoming yet another hyper inflated virtual economy at the cost of pissing off a particular group of players. Prior to this patch, a relatively small group of players were making the same amount of isk in npc bounties as the entire player-base did a year ago.
Anyone closely following the MERs will know that NPC bounties are out of control and have been spiralling that way since Citadels. What sort of balanced gameplay is it when you can safely sit in a super making up to 260M ticks? Of course we know that supers are not solely to blame, VNI's, Ishtars, and basically every decent drone platform is responsible for a massive chunk of the bounty pool but not at nearly the same efficiency.
This isn't only screwing with the money supply but it's dramatically increasing RMT. When you can reliably sit and make 500-780M pure isk/hr** pr. account** (hence the number of "unsubbing 17 accounts" threads), some people choose to look at it this way: you can be making over minimum salaries in some countries in RMT.
Then people complain about us nerfing mining when the mineral price index has been in a freefall for a long time and the only reason it's not worse is that the massive increase in mining volume is directly feeding into the e.g. the massive increase in super demand to get in on the bounty grind.
Sure pass some of that rage over to me, I'd be happy to take some heat off CCP Larrikin's and Fozzie's shoulders.


Apparently carrier users are the top 1% of the top 1%. Really makes you think...

I also don't know where you got the idea that supers make 260 mil ticks but that has literally no basis in reality whatsoever.

Sure, there was a problem, and yes it needed a solution, that doesn't mean that you should deploy the first solution without thinking it through. Not to mention that you waited until 3 days prior to the change to announce it, not that you care about feedback anyways.


Nothing he said is really inaccurate, and definitely justifies a nerf to carrier/super ratting.

It's really just the, "Oh, and uh... they'retoostronginPvPtoosowhatever" tacked onto the end, coupled with the magnitude of the nerf, that I find troubling.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Brigadine Ferathine
Presumed Dead Enterprises
Against ALL Authorities.
#946 - 2017-06-09 22:52:59 UTC
Kalain Kamerov wrote:
Guys,
Before y'all go rantzerker, please look at the economic report. CCP is nerfing it because ratting incomes have more than doubled over the last year.

Peace is good for business it seems.Incomes Loss/Gains by Type

There is better ways to balance it than nerfing an entire class of ships to death. Just reduce the isk per rat. It is NOT complicated.
Cpt WhiteEye
The All-Seeing Eye
HYSTERIA.
#947 - 2017-06-09 22:54:10 UTC
Why not add an option to turn Supers and Super capable characters into liquid isk?
Like a recycler.

For the effort of training into one and getting one they should give something back as of they will take it away from me in days. And all will remain is junk i cannot use.
So make an option where i can turn my fitted super into 30b and my toon for it into another 25-30b as tahts their value.

I will be happy to have them nerfed only if you add this.
Kaze Mester
Perkone
Caldari State
#948 - 2017-06-09 22:55:19 UTC
blaedin jordan wrote:
Yeah it really is just appalling how negative the response to something CCP is doing to "fix the game." They need to cancel the update until they can better assess the situation they are creating and sell their case a little better to playerbase. I think we deserve it for the years many of us have invested into this game, often with 2 or more accounts as well.


Oh...dreams.
I'm 100% sure they think like: "Players come and go...new alpha players have to buy tonz of plexes until they figure this thing out. We have time to figure out something until than we earn moneeeeeey!"
Thead Enco
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#949 - 2017-06-09 22:55:57 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
[img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img]  [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img]

Hi Space Friends,
Coming with our release on Tuesday, we’re significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters.

Why:
We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties.

This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players.

We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but we’re confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP.

What:
  • Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
  • Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
  • Support Fighters: No Change
  • Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
  • NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.


We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.



Grayscale?
Grabit Maycon
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#950 - 2017-06-09 22:56:25 UTC
Thanks for doing this, makes sense to keep the market steady.

Now you "only" have to finally invent something so there is a reason, so that nullsec has to fight each other again, means getting something developed, that they need to fight and not just because of random grudge, boredom, or "i have decided, that i don't like xy".

Refinieres are hopefully one step towards this direction, removing this ******** passive income and basically removing the income from lowsec (yeye in theory they will miner there, but be realistic).

maybe connect more nullsec with each other, like dronelands to fountain or similar i dunno, it's hard i know :(

Good luck everyone, keep up the good work.
Sexy Damsel
Perkone
Caldari State
#951 - 2017-06-09 22:57:28 UTC
I'm pretty sure devs don't read any of the comments. They behave like parents. They made their mind and that's it. Live with it.
Very short sight approach. Ppl make less isk ppl buy less plex. Causing less ppl buying plex with reality money. At the end of day capitals being nerfed for making too much isk but incursion not touched. Doesn't nake sense. Well got msg about one of my account expiring soon. Thanks for helping making my mind. Won't plex it. No point
Krypleria
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#952 - 2017-06-09 22:57:29 UTC
reducing bounties doesnt solve the faucet issue ...

hey. yo .. guyz... i have an ideea

Lets make Nullsec... NULLSEC again ... like... NOT SAFE !!!

Because of fatigue timers and citadels ... did you notice the increasing stagnation of content and offcourse ships destroyed ?!

Like really... would you invade a region that has 50 citadel 1 week timers ?! or 100 citadels ? .... its a joke .. really...
Ebony Texas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#953 - 2017-06-09 22:57:41 UTC
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Kalain Kamerov wrote:
Guys,
Before y'all go rantzerker, please look at the economic report. CCP is nerfing it because ratting incomes have more than doubled over the last year.

Peace is good for business it seems.Incomes Loss/Gains by Type

There is better ways to balance it than nerfing an entire class of ships to death. Just reduce the isk per rat. It is NOT complicated.



you reduce those NPC's.. then I want and I want my comrades who have spent billions upgrading the systems and its ihubs back + 20% for ccp's screw up.

CCP needs to get over it and leave this class alone.. ill wait till they touch dreads since it seems this summer is Nerf Bat epeening season.
singthegrief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#954 - 2017-06-09 22:57:47 UTC
Tim Nering wrote:
singthegrief wrote:
Cordylus1029 wrote:
Nex Gaius wrote:
Yet another quality game change. Lets nerf all the high time / isk investment options. But not the ez ones like Wormholes or Incursions.


Uh...you do realize WH's lost capital escalations? It's completely useless to do them now, we just don't ***** and moan so you probably forgot but it's k. WH's are easier than sitting in null with local and running every time a neut comes in, just commanding fighters around. Yep.

Seriously, you ratting carriers can all rot. There's literally no risk to you in nullsec, if you get caught and die it's 110% your fault.



says the guy who prob rage rolls to get a not descaning ship on grid to point then a whole fleet comes out to kill. and u guys got it easy i use to live in a c4 and if u have hole control u have no need for local and ur prob scanner is ur local if a new anom pops u scan it and roll it off so u have no room to talk friend.


LMAO literally fking clueless

how so explain?
blaedin jordan
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#955 - 2017-06-09 22:58:18 UTC
Grabit Maycon wrote:
Thanks for doing this, makes sense to keep the market steady.

Now you "only" have to finally invent something so there is a reason, so that nullsec has to fight each other again, means getting something developed, that they need to fight and not just because of random grudge, boredom, or "i have decided, that i don't like xy".

Refinieres are hopefully one step towards this direction, removing this ******** passive income and basically removing the income from lowsec (yeye in theory they will miner there, but be realistic).

maybe connect more nullsec with each other, like dronelands to fountain or similar i dunno, it's hard i know :(

Good luck everyone, keep up the good work.


It does very little of what they say it will accomplish. You think carriers and supercarriers are the only way to rake in isk? Have you tried a t3 cruiser or marauder? Seriously though...the nerf is far too large and doesn't address the unlying issue they say they are correcting. This warrants more time and communication, I hope they show some sense and reconsider for the time being.
Nache Sotken
ARZENAL
#956 - 2017-06-09 23:02:40 UTC
Just put times on anomalies , you did it for the belts . End of problem . As for nerf batting the Carrier's more ..... there is no need . I make ISK from building fighters and after the last changes I saw an uptick in sales . But what you are talking about doing would take all my sales away ! Cap sales will go the same way ! So everyone and not just the 1% are going to be hurting over these new changes . It I remember right CCP has always stayed out of messing with the markets / ISK . Just add a timer like you did for the belts and stop trying to kill this game .
Naren Vintas
Some Assembly Required.
#957 - 2017-06-09 23:04:21 UTC
I honestly dislike participating in in online discussions, but I fear that unless people who would otherwise stay silent add to the discussion, CCP will continue to push the negative response onto the "1% of the playerbase".

Nothing I say here would not have been said already in this topic, but let me reinforce some of these opinions with mine.

1. You are nerfing a pvp aspect of a ship based purely on a pve decisions. This not only does not make sense, it is outright silly. While carriers, one end, generate ISK from all the NPC bounties, they contribute to ISK lost from pvp engagements. Though it seems it is not so much of a case anymore, with the continuous nerfs the carriers are receiving.

2. This change is relatively big. 20% and 30% aren't small numbers. To receive such a short heads up of merely a few days is at best disrespectful to the playerbase, especially to the people who spent long time training into their dream ships, as well as investing big isk into them and the related skills. Now, instead of learning the skills to further improve the dream ship's performance, I will merely close the gap in the lost performance. This is plainly time wasted. There will be no compensation for two months worth of training to field better fighters.

3. The game seems to be rewarding "afk activities" more than it does active engagements. I could fly AFKtar and get the ISK for doing literally nothing, save for occasionally pointing the ship in the right direction. That's not why I chose to fly a carrier. It is a bigger, more powerful ship. It costs more, is juicier target for other people, and actually requires active gameplay rather than simply going AFK and waiting for the checks to roll in. The rewards of actively playing the game already seem to be relatively bad, but now I feel like I'm being punished for wanting to play the game actively.

4. The change seems to be primarily based on the idea that carriers are this amazing source of money. Please acknowledge that while carriers are, in my opinion, fairly decent option for making isk, there are other activities in the game that yield comparably better ISK income to a player that have not been touched in forever. The most related to this, of course, would be incursions, which seem to be CCP's precious gem for some strange reason. Factional Warfare can net player ridiculous amounts of money, too, along with exploration. While the latter two do not necessarily "conjure isk from thin air", they contribute to player's wealth.

But let me put these aside and focus on generating ISK. If that seems to be the problem, then that is indication of broken ISK generation as a whole. Carriers are not the problem - the system is. Carriers have long been the aspiration of many people. They were meant to be the big, shiny ships that are a big improvement, given the long training queues. However, the moment people started achieving these goals, CCP has realized that perhaps the carrier pilots are getting too good rewards.

Guess what. We worked hard to get to these ships and spent a lot of money. "Better rewards" is figuratively written on the hull of these ships. You don't just get to nerf these on a whim, especially with such a short notice. If you feel like there's too much ISK generated, look at the system that generates it - and balance the system as a whole.



Alas. I could go on, but there is not really much point, is there. My voice is here.
The game has not been fun to play lately for me, partly to the recent nerfs to things. It all does, in all honesty, feel like CCP wants us to multibox, so they can get more money out of subscribtion, and nerf any activity that you could otherwise do solo.
Aldent Arkanon
Privi Partizan
Asymmetric-Warfare
#958 - 2017-06-09 23:04:45 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Aldent Arkanon wrote:
CCP Quant wrote:
What we have here is literally the top 1% of the top 1% screaming their lungs out over these nerfs, while trying to convince the rest of the player-base to think that CCP is ruining the game for everyone. What we are really doing is keeping it from becoming yet another hyper inflated virtual economy at the cost of pissing off a particular group of players. Prior to this patch, a relatively small group of players were making the same amount of isk in npc bounties as the entire player-base did a year ago.
Anyone closely following the MERs will know that NPC bounties are out of control and have been spiralling that way since Citadels. What sort of balanced gameplay is it when you can safely sit in a super making up to 260M ticks? Of course we know that supers are not solely to blame, VNI's, Ishtars, and basically every decent drone platform is responsible for a massive chunk of the bounty pool but not at nearly the same efficiency.
This isn't only screwing with the money supply but it's dramatically increasing RMT. When you can reliably sit and make 500-780M pure isk/hr** pr. account** (hence the number of "unsubbing 17 accounts" threads), some people choose to look at it this way: you can be making over minimum salaries in some countries in RMT.
Then people complain about us nerfing mining when the mineral price index has been in a freefall for a long time and the only reason it's not worse is that the massive increase in mining volume is directly feeding into the e.g. the massive increase in super demand to get in on the bounty grind.
Sure pass some of that rage over to me, I'd be happy to take some heat off CCP Larrikin's and Fozzie's shoulders.


Apparently carrier users are the top 1% of the top 1%. Really makes you think...

I also don't know where you got the idea that supers make 260 mil ticks but that has literally no basis in reality whatsoever.

Sure, there was a problem, and yes it needed a solution, that doesn't mean that you should deploy the first solution without thinking it through. Not to mention that you waited until 3 days prior to the change to announce it, not that you care about feedback anyways.


Nothing he said is really inaccurate, and definitely justifies a nerf to carrier/super ratting.

It's really just the, "Oh, and uh... they'retoostronginPvPtoosowhatever" tacked onto the end, coupled with the magnitude of the nerf, that I find troubling.


The part about people making 260 mil ticks is grossly inaccurate. Nevertheless I agree that the income part needs to be nerfed, just through a method (numerous alternatives have been suggested by players) that doesn't do drastic harm to their already diminished ability in PvP.

I personally couldn't really care less about the ratting part (aside from wanting people to still use them to rat so that I can kill them), but its the effect on PvP that is the main frustration for me personally.
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort
#959 - 2017-06-09 23:05:02 UTC
Buying Hell 50% off.

I swear it's as if you guys don't read the same economic reports as I do. Be glad they are going this route and not just hitting bounties by like 40% which really would effect every player. They aren't even touching application they're still going to track just fine, just might take 2 hits to kill that BB rather than 1. It'll slow you down which is the intention of this! Now go look at the economic report and say with a straight face that something doesn't need to change.

In actual combat you're still going to blot out the sun with fighters and destroy dreads well out of their range. Or did the majority of EVE suddenly find their own personal system to super rat in uncontested without me noticing? It's almost like people forgot these are combat vessels and for years just sat motionless in a POS. Don't get me started on the boson+HAW titan ratting problem that's on the rise.


BTW - When did I become the one not seeing a problem with a change? Hell my corpmates even gave me the title of doomsday. What are we all coming to?
Scipio Numantinus
Thirtyplus
Goonswarm Federation
#960 - 2017-06-09 23:05:42 UTC
NUTS