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Arrendis
TK Corp
#81 - 2017-05-05 19:05:25 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
That is absolute nonsense and you know it. Keep rewriting other people's posts if you wish, but don't start inventing that crap wholecloth with me.


What's nonsense? That all-out war will mean genocidal attacks on civilian populations? I'm sorry, did you miss this during our earlier conversation:

Tyrel Toov wrote:

Actually, it was working just fine until a zombie attacked the fleet with a Jovian super weapon. If we take steps to ensure mutually assured destruction (such as poisoning entire planets), then it's a fight even the Amarrians would be loath to take. We have proven our resolve to do it before, and the Amarrians know we will do it again if push comes to shove... and they are out one Jovian super weapon, if I recall.


You say you don't want genocide.You know what? I believe you. I've never known you to intentionally advocate for killing non-combatants out of hand. It's still what your 'we should go to war now' will get. I don't want the war to start, but I've got no illusions about how we'd go about fighting it. Open that door for the noblest of purposes, but never doubt for a second that they'll be a whole lost of 'I just want my revenge' killing going on. Most of it won't be eggers, but it'll happen, and it won't be confined to legitimate military targets.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#82 - 2017-05-05 19:12:32 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Halcyon Ember wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Well, you're the Amarr here, sister. Better get to fixing the problem from within, before we do have enough bullets.

I feel they'd be no more likely to listen to a traitor and heretic than they would someone threatening to shoot them all. This change needs to come from those possessed of both faith and standing. If you have ideas to present beyond "shoot everyone" I'm all ears.


The Empire could always, just, you know, stock up on laser crystals while they're stocking up on bullets. (Pretty sure this is what's actually happening, in the wake of the Elder Fleet and all that.) That way the war's way less likely to come and some progress can be made in the meantime.


It pretty much is, Aria... but it's not making the war less likely, just more eventually destructive if the Empire doesn't change its ways. There's simply no room for compromise between 'we get to have slaves' and 'no, you don't'. It's a binary proposition. One of those positions is defensible by means other than 'na-na-na God says we can do it'. The other... is the Amarr.

And Halcyon, weren't you just saying 'you don't understand them, you can't tell them how they should change'? Now you're demanding I provide all of the labyrinthine knowledge and particular details needed to make the Amarr say 'oh, wow, now we understand that commiting horrible crimes against entire races is wrong!'?

I've offered a pretty simple and direct motivator. You want a different one... your turn.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#83 - 2017-05-05 19:21:08 UTC
Do you know what genocide even is? Of course there'll be civilian and non-combatants killed in staggering numbers, but that is a far cry from genocide. Genocide is something else entirely than the fever dreams of IGS blowhards that have no means of putting their words into action anyway.

Capsuleers aren't even capable of seeing, not to mention firing upon such targets, and the baseliner military forces would have their hands somewhat full with the other side's military forces. The moment either side decided to divert assets towards "poisoning entire planets" like some sort of mustache twirling cartoon villains they would lose the war quite handily both due to misallocation of assets and the rest of New Eden immediately siding against them.

No, any genocidal action would be acts of desperation by the side that ends up losing, if the other side offered no reasonable terms. A final '**** you' to make the price too high for the gain. More importantly, by then it'd be too late for any such act to be effective.

Genocide in New Eden? I'm sure there's people who think that is a path to walk, but there is no practical way to actually do it. The scales are too large and no one with the kind of firepower required to do it - that'd be the Nations themselves - are under the kind of delusion required to think they could do it without all of New Eden descending upon them as a result.

You think like a goon, Arrendis. New Eden doesn't work that way.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#84 - 2017-05-05 19:26:49 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
You think like a goon, Arrendis. New Eden doesn't work that way.


Right. Because there's no way the recent Kyonoke bioweapon attacks weren't initiated by a state actor. Except, apparently, they were. And there's no way someone intentionally aiming for a planetary population couldn't hit multiple locations in a period of days just by moving through civilian transport systems while contagious, but not yet expressing. Except, you know, they did.

Put that on a single planet, moving around for four days, instead of through different star systems.

It doesn't take nearly as much 'firepower' as you seem to think.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#85 - 2017-05-05 19:31:31 UTC
If it was that easy, it would have happened years ago, weeks ago, today, tomorrow, next week and years to come in a perpetual cycle of death. Hell, I'd probably be involved at some point. No Arrendis, genocide isn't that easily accomplished. Spend a few years carrying around the wrath required to enact something like that and I think you'll find it's easier said than done.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#86 - 2017-05-05 19:33:20 UTC
Did I say already that Arrendis is bad?
Well, Arrendis is bad.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
#87 - 2017-05-05 19:33:53 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
If it was that easy, it would have happened years ago, weeks ago, today, tomorrow, next week and years to come in a perpetual cycle of death. Hell, I'd probably be involved at some point. No Arrendis, genocide isn't that easily accomplished. Spend a few years carrying around the wrath required to enact something like that and I think you'll find it's easier said than done.


You are right, is not easy to accomplish. And that´s the only reason it hasn´t happened so far.

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Halcyon Ember
Repracor Industries
#88 - 2017-05-05 19:50:42 UTC
Tsao Aubbes wrote:
Considering this is the "off topic" thread:

I somehow rolled out of bed while sleeping and hit my face on the floor. Quite a strange way to start off the (early) morning..

That sounds awkward

Queen of Chocolate
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#89 - 2017-05-05 19:54:45 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
New Eden doesn't work that way.


I shall quote, from recent history, in which 3 genocides/planet poisonings took place, by non-capsuleer factions.

1. The Blood Raider Covenant attack on Mabnem.
In which the Covenant used a bioweapon on an inhabited world, causing a great many civilian deaths.
The Amarr Empire responded by eradicating the Covenant presence from the Tandoiras constellation in The Bleak Lands.
The rest of New Eden didn't really care.

2. The Equilibrium of Mankind attack on Reschard V.
Suspected, but never 100% proven, was the EoM assault, with a Titan Doomsday weapon, on the planet Reschard V, resulting in the almost complete destruction of the biosphere, and the almost complete eradication of the population of the planet.
New Eden didn't really care, other than declaring the EoM an outlaw group, that could be fired upon freely. No concerted campaign to locate and eradicate them.

3. The Elder Fleet assaults on several Amarr worlds.
In which the Elder Fleet forces, in several incursions into Amarr Empire territory, deployed bioweapons onto civilian targets, resulting in millions of deaths.
New Eden didn't really care, other than CONCORD enacting that Act that led to the Militia Wars.


In all three cases, one can observe that the reaction by New Eden to genocides and planet poisonings is mostly apathy and indifference.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
#90 - 2017-05-05 19:58:59 UTC
Tsao Aubbes wrote:
Considering this is the "off topic" thread:

I somehow rolled out of bed while sleeping and hit my face on the floor. Quite a strange way to start off the (early) morning..


Oh Tsao :(

We stand at the Abyss, drawing the Patterns of Fate - Casserina Leshrac, Savant, Sani Sabik.
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#91 - 2017-05-05 20:41:04 UTC
A hot dog is a sandwich.

"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#92 - 2017-05-05 20:44:05 UTC
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon wrote:
A hot dog is a sandwich.


This means war.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#93 - 2017-05-05 20:50:01 UTC
Why, next you'll be saying a corndog is a sandwich, and that's just not true.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#94 - 2017-05-05 21:36:24 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
New Eden doesn't work that way.


I shall quote, from recent history, in which 3 genocides/planet poisonings took place, by non-capsuleer factions.

1. The Blood Raider Covenant attack on Mabnem.
In which the Covenant used a bioweapon on an inhabited world, causing a great many civilian deaths.
The Amarr Empire responded by eradicating the Covenant presence from the Tandoiras constellation in The Bleak Lands.
The rest of New Eden didn't really care.

2. The Equilibrium of Mankind attack on Reschard V.
Suspected, but never 100% proven, was the EoM assault, with a Titan Doomsday weapon, on the planet Reschard V, resulting in the almost complete destruction of the biosphere, and the almost complete eradication of the population of the planet.
New Eden didn't really care, other than declaring the EoM an outlaw group, that could be fired upon freely. No concerted campaign to locate and eradicate them.

3. The Elder Fleet assaults on several Amarr worlds.
In which the Elder Fleet forces, in several incursions into Amarr Empire territory, deployed bioweapons onto civilian targets, resulting in millions of deaths.
New Eden didn't really care, other than CONCORD enacting that Act that led to the Militia Wars.


In all three cases, one can observe that the reaction by New Eden to genocides and planet poisonings is mostly apathy and indifference.

4. Operation "Highlander" by Gallente occupants.
In which Federals have sent armed troops to invade Caldari Prime - a planet that belongs to Caldari State and was acknowledged by Gallente Federation with a treaty of YC110. By starting the fights and occupation, they have lured standing Caldari capital fleet to low planetary orbit to support. As soon as Caldari capital ships, including a Leviathan-class titan, entered vulnerable to the planet position, Gallente has attacked them in space, sending a so-called in capsuleer circles "dread bomb". The falling down on the planet leviathan and remains or other capital ships killed millions and forever changed landscape of the planet, that will stand now as a monument to Gallentean treachery.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#95 - 2017-05-05 21:43:53 UTC
And yet she doesn't acknowledge that Tibus Heth ordered Admiral Yanala to Doomsday Caldari Prime.

Hm.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Halcyon Ember
Repracor Industries
#96 - 2017-05-05 21:49:27 UTC
Her selective approach to facts still surprises you?

Queen of Chocolate
Arrendis
TK Corp
#97 - 2017-05-06 01:26:37 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
If it was that easy, it would have happened years ago, weeks ago, today, tomorrow, next week and years to come in a perpetual cycle of death. Hell, I'd probably be involved at some point. No Arrendis, genocide isn't that easily accomplished. Spend a few years carrying around the wrath required to enact something like that and I think you'll find it's easier said than done.


The fact that the blood raiders can figure out how to do it and you can't isn't my problem, Miz.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#98 - 2017-05-06 06:56:29 UTC
You think those drops sprinkled upon the sea of New Eden are examples of genocide, Arrendis? That's... you know, I think I'll let that be the case. Perhaps it's a good thing when people think such things warrant such nomenclature. I actually hope you'll never have to actually find out what genocide would look like in New Eden.
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#99 - 2017-05-06 12:21:52 UTC
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#100 - 2017-05-06 13:57:58 UTC
Today we learn that the attack on Reschard V, a mostly agricultural colony with no military presence or tactical value, with a population of some 100 million inhabitants, is not an example of genocide.

The planet being rendered uninhabitable, with only 2000 survivors recovered, a survival rate of less than 1 in 50,000, for no discernible reason, does not count as an act of genocide or planet-poisoning.

Well, wasn't that informative ?

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.