EVE General Discussion

You all have a good point, if you change Eve to please newbros
and slackers it will ruin the core game.

So how could CCP make the first harsh interactions less devastating.

Better, longer tutorial?

Mandatory to join a corp?

Free newbro ships?

Ship-fitting school?

Ingame how-to videos?

Forced Golden Rule checklist everytime you undock in HS.

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GOLDEN RULE UNDOCK CHECKLIST:
( ) Can you afford to lose what you are flying?
( ) Have you taken precautions?
( ) Do you trust no-one?

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( )----> LAUNCH

Probably not. Coddling players seems to be the problem. Holding their hand seems to be the problem. Because you hold their hand and then you shove into the deep end rather abruptly. This view was first put forward by Salvos.

With the less helpful NPE it was more "Here is your noob ship, now **** off" as Jenn Aside has mentioned, the game was growing.

Could this be coincidence? Sure. But seems to me coddling new players is the problem.

I agree with this and would add highsec should be officially renamed as empire as the word high-sec is nothing but a source of confusion. It sets false expectation of what the zone is as a new player, in reality it is the hub of new eden, literally the centre of the cluster, as such it's rife with everything eve is known for.

I do also think the game should make clear solo play is only for those experienced enough to look after themselves. Some might say moving newbies to null would only increase the power of existing alliances, well I have two counter points. First new players are already flocking to null to groups like brave newbies and pandemic horse etc. Second I would argue even large groups tend to splinter and fall apart, and other times people break away from an alliance to go off on their own.

I still hold to this. The new NPE tutorial is TOO good.
Lovely graphic popups, excellent guidance, voice acting, etc.

The drop into the harsh reality of EVE when it ends is even more fatal than before as a result.

The real killer for new players, is their own false expectations.
1) NPE goes away and they hit the ground, hard.
2) Many try to play as they are used to in other safe MMOs, and rudely discover that doesnt fly here.
3) Nobody likes blaming themselves for their mistakes. That is by far the hardest thing to accept, also in EVE.

I myself didnt know the specifics of EVE when I started, but I knew the Golden Rules would be all that keeps me alive.
That is what saved me. I ran for cover the second I dropped out of NPE, and in many ways, have been doing so ever since.

Ones first loss in EVE is the trial by fire.
That is when you have to internalize the bitter medicine, that everything that happens to you in EVE, is invariably your own fault. If you can survive that pill, that is when you are truly ready for EVE.

The best thing we can do for new players, is religiously, constantly preach them the Golden Rules.

Hmmm....

Part of me says, "Yes, that really is pushing them in the deep end." The other part says, "Are we first hitting them in the head with a roofing hammer, then pushing them in the deep end?"

I could envision corps like E-uni moving to NPC null and other starter corps springing up, likely sponsored by larger null groups looking for fresh blood. It would be a dynamic player driven experience which is what eve is about right? Why not show that from the get go. Empire is just a central hub where players from null gather for various reasons, trade, concord protection for certain activities, etc. Empire is not high security, nor is it really the place to start new players, so isolated from group play.

While I agree with this, when I started the first time 5 years ago I had the opposite experience. I played for about six months casually and nothing happened to me at all. Maybe this was because I never really mined, but while missioning and region trading I was never attacked once by another player (although I think I only left highsec a couple times when I didn't understand I was buying something from a lowsec station off the market but never was shot at) and eventually got bored and quit for over a year before trying again. Maybe I was lucky and it was only a matter of time, but I never lost a ship to another player and the only "bad" thing that happened to me was I fell for a small-time margin trading scam. I wouldn't even say I took precautions as I understand that to mean now hauling things, although it is true I was quite poor and probably never a really juicy target.

When I eventually tried again I decided to try my hand as a pirate (with some lowsec PI on the side for income - I only left highsec because the PI was so much better in lowsec) and did spend a lot more time reading and learning and got practice moving about lowsec, and by then I had fully absorbed what type of game Eve is so I was following the Golden Rules and comfortable with loss.

Of course this is all anecdotal, but I agree that it appears that the NPE fails to convey what type of game this is, nor condition players to treat ships as disposable, and highsec itself can and does bore players out of the game. I don't know what the solution is, but I am pretty sure more bubble-wrapping and isolation from the real game of Eve is not the answer. That just sets players up for a more devastating first loss when it finally happens and them to cry "bully" when someone dares interfere with their game play as the game is suppose to work. The answer could be in nurturing small and micro scale conflict and fights over things, even in highsec. Little PvE pockets that could stimulate interesting/fun conflict and fights even for new players, or limited bonuses for structures for small corps to fight over, but this is incredibly tough to balance when you have 10-year veterans squatting in highsec exploiting the safety there. I really hope the "Phenomenal PvE" coming up at Fanfest has something other than "better AI" that never seems to be deployed beyond niche areas of the game.

I guess the TL;DR is: Eve needs more conflict drivers, especially ones that get new players engaged with the universe.

+1

You took the words right out of my mouth and embellished them most profitably.

Not that I expect it to make an iota of difference to Mr Mieyli's mutterings...

Same as the Privateer nerf. We responded to alliance provocation in null by creating a highsec alliance to fight null alliances when they came to high.

Nek minute - Alliances ZOMG we can't go to high sec and carebear in peace, CCP nerfs our alliance to death. There were no changes when the alliances were declaring war on little corps and smashing them but as soon as the tables were turned the nerf bat came out.

Can't get less emergent and less sand box then that.