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I wasn't looking for your confirmation of me being a genius, which I naturally wouldn't do, be it only for the reason that I doubt you could see one if you met one. To be blunt, I don't like your smug way of telling CCP "you are almost there" while basically taking over other peoples arguments and blunting them by mixing them with some text-book 2nd year undergraduate psychological system and game theory boredom, which you obviously are able to repeat, but don't seem to understand. Otherwise you'd be able to either condense your very simple thoughts into a simple "yep, bla" or be able to bring something deeper into the discussion than generalized talk about form, function, behaviour and structure. Don't get me wrong here: I think using theory can be an important part of understanding what we need in this game. But for this to work you actually need to be able to apply theory and not merely repeat the words you've learnt somewhere and trying to push your very basic understanding of a few things over the complex social world that EVE is after all, like some clowns mask over a face. If that is your personal need to give yourself the feeling to grasp EVE in some way, so be it. I will read your postings and I will think my part about this wannabe intellectual try hard posture. But please, don't be so smug - and I happily repeat myself - to tell CCP "you are almost there" as if you would understand any of it.

So kindly take your "Duh" and smear it into your hair.

This will be absolutely necessary. You can now essentially do ALL of your reactions in a single structure. Without this a huge portion of the isotope demand in the game would die as one of the single largest consumers of isotopes is reaction farms.

So don't mine if you don't want to mine?

Hello Everyone,

My optimism upon reading this blog on Refineries could only be described as a 'mixed bag' ... maybe good and maybe not. What I fear most is that the structure will not even come CLOSE to fulfilling it's greatest potential. So with that having been said... I'd like to make a few suggestions in earnest.

1. The new Upwell Refinery Structure should have the capability of producing system wide mining bonuses (like Rorquals and Orcas used to do).

a. One possible benefit this could have obviously, is eliminating but not replacing 3 different 'boosting' vessels ( namely Rorquals, Orcas, and Porpoises). This would be extremely beneficial to Corporations/Alliances that routinely conduct larger scale mining ops and it would almost certainly streamline things logistically speaking for sure.

b. Lets say for instance a Medium Refinery is given mining bonuses commensurate with Orcas and a Large Refinery is likened to Rorqual bonuses. Both can be achieved through the proper creation and utilization of M-Standup and L-Standup refinery modules. As these new structures are intended to be geared toward the Industrial way of life... they should already include reprocessing and compression as standard features much like the automatic transmission is put in nearly every car and truck that is built on the planet Earth.

c. If the new refinery structure is going to be of any real use to miners in the same manner by which I am suggesting... it must also have the capability of handling Fleet/Wing/Squad command structures. The 'new' refinery structure should include a newly devised Standup module that would receive and re-transmit signals from the Mining Foreman Mindlink implant set and I believe this 'new' Standup module should give the structure owner the ability to allow or disallow this role/permission much the same way access to the station is granted.

2. Create a 'new' Mining Industrial Ship to haul what the Rorqual, Orca, and Porpoise does now. The only class of ships in the Eve Items Database that has not had a major overhaul or revamp are the Industrials. Give it some decent cargo capacity - somewhere between what Freighters and Jump Freighters haul but with a tad more speed outright or by use of low slots or both...!!! : )

3. I hope CCP that you will seriously consider making the new refinery structure WORTHY of its POTENTIAL, its ownership and subsequent deployments. Citadels are a dime a dozen... seems like everybody has one so what. A structure devised like what I am suggesting would be a crown's jewel in any Corporation's or Alliance 's portfolio... give the damn thing some real gusto, give it something really worthy of being both attacked and defended, but it needs its drawbacks as well. I would not recommend making them so easily available. A structure such as this... should require some pretty heavy duty operating costs to go along with it.

Ofcouse its not going to happen because not only goon but all alliance want to HAVE control and get funded by doing nothing. Or u want to tell me that Goons/whoever are going to go mine in system where they dont have presence and only got the sov? :) I dont think so....

Things to put into WH moons: better ore than belts, ice, wh gas.

This is a nice mechanic and i think it can be implemented to whspace providedbit does not yield T2 stuff.

So the structure such like Personal hangar array will desapear ?

and i guess u cannot solo kill a dread with a reffineries... and the moon goo is now activ isk ?

that a violent change...

The new moon mining system sounds interesting and fun, but there will be some quite big problems about it...

The main one is that you move something from a completely automatic and unattended system to a very active one.
It means that nearly all the moons that are haversted now, will become unused.
Why? Because most of the moongoo is made from big alliances, whith hundreds of POSes around null.
After the changes, they will only keep the most valuable ones, as much as they can actually keep mining every week (or whatever the settings will be). All the other moons will be freed.
This will lead to a very big rebalance of T2 prices, as the available moongoo in the hubs will be a LOT less than now.

Moreover the basic system will remain the same... few big alliances will own 80% of the moongoo market (talking about value, not quantity).

In order to make things more interesting and open to as many players as possible, few changes would imho be important:

1. Every moon should have way more kinds of moongoo.

Maybe not all the kinds of moongoo, but something like the PI materials distribution on planets.... maybe keeping max 1 r64 per moon, 1-2 r32, and so on... and a total of 5-8 different types on every moon,
The materials should be random, included the quantity, but could be tied to "moon type" and true sec. A little bit like the ore belts.

2. Open the moon mining to HS and WH.

In LS it's actually quite hard to mine... in Null the mined moons will be a lot less than now... and the alliances will focus on the best ones... So we will need a way to have enough low-end moongoo, not to completely crash the market.
Following my suggestion #1, in HS it would be possible to mine mostly low-med end materials, with small quantities of higher ones.
In WH it should be possible to get the same ones as in null... but most of the people living in WH won't mine them anyway.
At least, having the chance of doing it would be an improvement to the gameplay, wouldn't ruin anything.
And at least it would give some value for these structures in HS... the way they are now, they can only be used to refine ores.

Hi

Can you please look into fuel costs of the Citadels, a alarmingly growing number of Citadels in hi-sec (no experiences in low/null-sec) is not fueled and thus necessary services are not available. In the region I travel more than 50% of the citadels seems not fuelled at all.

Giving the fuel costs Citadels seems like a big money pit for most smaller corporations (<10 member). Low or no tax to attract customers for a refinery does not make it any better for the competition.

Please do a count of how much of the cited 7800 corps have one or more Citadels with only the free services running (repair/insurance/storage/offices).

1. About what amount of ISKs we are talking with passive moon mining here, from a single moon? I'm glad that passive income will go away (burn it with fire!) but judging from Rorqual thread changes, our min-max community with as little effort as possible, I presume negative reception.
2. Refineries will have mining bonuses (mining ledger, moon mining, refine bounses) what will driling platforms have?
3. I'm kinda lost when it comes to citadels. We will have specialized structures soon, what is the purpose of "Citadels" when more specialized EC, Refineries, Drilling platforms and more will come?
4. POS - remove? when? Outposts--->Citadels, POS--->?
5. Economy earthquake (passive gathering into active) and how to avoid it?