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Dev blog: Introducing Upwell Refineries

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Tetsel
House Amamake
#81 - 2017-03-22 17:08:42 UTC
Querns wrote:
Tetsel wrote:
CCPls:
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?

Thx


Here's a relevant quote from Fozzie:

CCP Fozzie [23:52]
more people have asked me about siphons in the last hour than have used siphons in the past week :slightly_smiling_face:


Nice job "Useless" CSM....

Loyal servent to Mother Amamake. @EVE_Tetsel

Another Bittervet Please Ignore
Rapscallion Jones
Omnibus Solutions
#82 - 2017-03-22 17:09:51 UTC
Lunarstorm95 wrote:
RIP alliance srp for small-medium size alliances (not like free ships did anything in the way of content anyways, right guys?)

I'm curious how alliances even with only 4-5 systems that have 4-6 moons each are expected to mine all that , good luck getting a bunch of pvpers to get in a mining fleet.

Maybe reduce overall amount of moons but making per moon income much higher?



100x this, it's been the topic of our alliance Slack discussion since this dropped.

For those that find a way to make this work I really feel sorry for you. CCP is adding new game play requirements to the least engaging portion of the game -- mining. So now if I'm a miner I have to do the dullest portion of the game for personal income + mine for the alliance constantly. Even if I don't mine for personal income you're going to have alliances levying a mining requirement on their PVE/PVPers because the alliance has to have income to survive.

Nearly all small and many medium sized alliances will never be able to meet the demands this will place on them. With the loss of alliance level income comes the death of the alliance. No income means no SRP or Infrastructure. The alliances die and all that is left if a few mega alliances running the entire null-sec map.

I thought the entire point of tearing down the old SOV system was to break up the big alliances and allow the little guys a chance to thrive. This change throws all of that out the window. Bad call CCP, horrible job CSM!!!Evil
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#83 - 2017-03-22 17:11:06 UTC
Hy Wanto Destroyer wrote:
Also mr retardo goon ofc you are pushing for this because it prolly benefits goons massively and alot of nullsec allainces , youre able to tax moons and tax renters so all the nullsec miners are jumping with joy.


In strictly money-making terms, no, I'd much rather have passive moon mining. It's much, much easier to handle.

However, I still support these changes. Speaking as someone who has, historically, benefited the most from passive alliance-level income, it MUST be removed.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#84 - 2017-03-22 17:11:54 UTC
Rainus Max wrote:
Querns wrote:
Rainus Max wrote:

Give each moon a bit of everything but so that everyone has the ability to get the high end goo that currently is so heavily controlled by the big alliances.


Considering that the new system requires active harvest, I'm guessing a LOT of R64 moons, especially in lowsec, are about to come up for grabs, considering that they're mostly held by On-Rails-Arcade-Shooter-phile iceberg alliances currently. Perhaps you and yours can snag one?


Given it also requires me to either ninja mine from someone else's belt or to drop a refinery of my own i doubt I'll get much or ever get on top of Dyspro moon any time soon.


Oh no, you may need to have infrastructure. Heaven forbid!

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
SIEGE RED
The Darwin Foundation
#85 - 2017-03-22 17:11:58 UTC
Tetsel wrote:
CCPls:
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?
What about Siphons ?

Thx


Sucking is apparently not a bad thing.
Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#86 - 2017-03-22 17:17:07 UTC
Querns wrote:
Rainus Max wrote:
Querns wrote:
Rainus Max wrote:

Give each moon a bit of everything but so that everyone has the ability to get the high end goo that currently is so heavily controlled by the big alliances.


Considering that the new system requires active harvest, I'm guessing a LOT of R64 moons, especially in lowsec, are about to come up for grabs, considering that they're mostly held by On-Rails-Arcade-Shooter-phile iceberg alliances currently. Perhaps you and yours can snag one?


Given it also requires me to either ninja mine from someone else's belt or to drop a refinery of my own i doubt I'll get much or ever get on top of Dyspro moon any time soon.


Oh no, you may need to have infrastructure. Heaven forbid!


Its not the need for infrastructure that is the issue, its defending it from large entities like Goons & PL etc that can dominate most other entities.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#87 - 2017-03-22 17:18:44 UTC
Hey folks. Thanks for the feedback and questions so far! I'll be doing a larger Q&A response at a later time but for now one quick answer to a question that's coming up a lot:

We currently plan to phase out siphons since they don't really fit with the new system (there will be much more direct ways to steal moongoo). Siphons were a solid attempt at achieving a worthy goal, but for a number of reasons that particular implementation was doomed to extremely niche status. We think that overall direct spaceship interaction will be a more fun way of engaging in guerilla attacks against moon mining infrastructure.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
SIEGE RED
The Darwin Foundation
#88 - 2017-03-22 17:20:20 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks. Thanks for the feedback and questions so far! I'll be doing a larger Q&A response at a later time but for now one quick answer to a question that's coming up a lot:

We currently plan to phase out siphons since they don't really fit with the new system (there will be much more direct ways to steal moongoo). Siphons were a solid attempt at achieving a worthy goal, but for a number of reasons that particular implementation was doomed to extremely niche status. We think that overall direct spaceship interaction will be a more fun way of engaging in guerilla attacks against moon mining infrastructure.


Wait, what? Sucking IS a bad thing? Dang Oops

On the bright side, I can see the point.
Lunarstorm95
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#89 - 2017-03-22 17:20:26 UTC
Querns wrote:
Hy Wanto Destroyer wrote:
Also mr retardo goon ofc you are pushing for this because it prolly benefits goons massively and alot of nullsec allainces , youre able to tax moons and tax renters so all the nullsec miners are jumping with joy.


In strictly money-making terms, no, I'd much rather have passive moon mining. It's much, much easier to handle.

However, I still support these changes. Speaking as someone who has, historically, benefited the most from passive alliance-level income, it MUST be removed.


Im interested in what a goon has to say about this, how does a med/small alliance that doesn't have a full mining wing expected to mine several moons, enough to keep up with SRP and infrastructure/fuel cost?

Alliances like goons are gana benefit so much from this patch, you can hardly say "Even I, a goon, think this should happen"

“You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.” ― Robert A. Heinlein "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." ― Confucius 
Sassums
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#90 - 2017-03-22 17:20:28 UTC
So if I am reading this correctly you are continuing to cater to the null sec folks while WH people receive no love.

T3 was our only production option in WH space that didnt require us to leave the WH to produce - with gas reaction BPO's requiring Ice products we will now either have to go out to HS to purchase said ice or roll until we find a shattered that has ice belts (that will almost always guarantee a gank)

T3 Production should continue to be a W-Space product and should not require K-Space components.

If this is changing then W-Space should be allowed to harvest resources from the moons of the systems we inhabit.

If not - remove the stupid ice requirement from T3 reactions.
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#91 - 2017-03-22 17:22:15 UTC
Tetsel wrote:
CCPls:
What about Siphons ?
---ditto x lots---

Thx


Will no longer need to exist (is how I read it) - replaced by ninja mining Prospects.

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#92 - 2017-03-22 17:23:35 UTC
I love this, mainly because of all the tears from "passive income elites" who are now going to chase to either be poor OR (*GASP*) make room in their elite PVP only alliances/coaltions for dirty dirty Mining guys they will need protecting.

Did I mention that I love this?
Tetsel
House Amamake
#93 - 2017-03-22 17:23:56 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks. Thanks for the feedback and questions so far! I'll be doing a larger Q&A response at a later time but for now one quick answer to a question that's coming up a lot:

We currently plan to phase out siphons since they don't really fit with the new system (there will be much more direct ways to steal moongoo). Siphons were a solid attempt at achieving a worthy goal, but for a number of reasons that particular implementation was doomed to extremely niche status. We think that overall direct spaceship interaction will be a more fun way of engaging in guerilla attacks against moon mining infrastructure.


Thanks for the answer, I'll stay polite, this time...
but might bring some torch & pitchfork at Fanfest.

Loyal servent to Mother Amamake. @EVE_Tetsel

Another Bittervet Please Ignore
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#94 - 2017-03-22 17:24:17 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Once these are released, is the need for the POS gone?
Will they get removed when refineries are released? Will there be some sort of grace period? What about POS stuff on the market, or in hangars?


Still have Jump Bridges and related things to change......

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
Plaid Rabbit
Enlightened Industries
Goonswarm Federation
#95 - 2017-03-22 17:25:24 UTC
Something I'd like to request is that CCP release the structure/service module BPOs ahead of time and allow them to be built, but not anchored/used. Then on release day, return the rigs, allow anchoring, and people can play with the "new" feature on the first day.
Le Mittani
Free Ritto
#96 - 2017-03-22 17:26:19 UTC
Hey look another change that will work well for nullsec with no thought at all for how it will affect low sec. But then again who cares about low sec. I'm sure the thrilling battle proc and skiff meta will be great for low sec.
Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#97 - 2017-03-22 17:26:45 UTC
Could it be tweaked so a Large Citadel goes on a planet and have a rig/service to pull in one or two more chucks?

I dont mind dropping citadels but the spam is getting a bit over the top.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#98 - 2017-03-22 17:27:20 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks. Thanks for the feedback and questions so far! I'll be doing a larger Q&A response at a later time but for now one quick answer to a question that's coming up a lot:

We currently plan to phase out siphons since they don't really fit with the new system (there will be much more direct ways to steal moongoo). Siphons were a solid attempt at achieving a worthy goal, but for a number of reasons that particular implementation was doomed to extremely niche status. We think that overall direct spaceship interaction will be a more fun way of engaging in guerilla attacks against moon mining infrastructure.




so what you're saying is either...

mining barges can steal from the chunk.

or use a freaking titan to steal that r64 moon chunk...

(feints)
Tetsel
House Amamake
#99 - 2017-03-22 17:29:12 UTC
Marcus Tedric wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Once these are released, is the need for the POS gone?
Will they get removed when refineries are released? Will there be some sort of grace period? What about POS stuff on the market, or in hangars?


Still have Jump Bridges and related things to change......


That's what the infamous "stargate" from that fanfest trailer is for.

Loyal servent to Mother Amamake. @EVE_Tetsel

Another Bittervet Please Ignore
Lunarstorm95
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#100 - 2017-03-22 17:29:21 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
I love this, mainly because of all the tears from "passive income elites" who are now going to chase to either be poor OR (*GASP*) make room in their elite PVP only alliances/coaltions for dirty dirty Mining guys they will need protecting.

Did I mention that I love this?


Yeah ur gana love this until you realize you will be mining weekly only for all ur moon roids to be going to the alliance, alliance is not gana let you keep the goo....

Alliance is not gana spend money on the fuel and refinery only to launch the roids into space and let the miners take what they can mine and go spend it on more crystals... alliance will need all the money it can get from the rocks to supplement srp and infrastructure costs. Even more so since it wont be able to mine nearly as many moons as they do now, so it will need every isk from the moon meaning you wont be getting a decent, if any, cut.

“You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.” ― Robert A. Heinlein "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." ― Confucius