EVE General Discussion

One can quite often read that New Eden is lawless and libertarian social darvinism is the only set of rules. But plenty of various corps and alliances have their own codes of rules without which they would scramble. Of course, the galaxy is gargantuan, so there are plenty of systems, where true a-cap can be practiced. In the rest of them however, after 14 years of game development, players have established state-like organisms that function on their own basis and effectively enforce their ways on those who don't want to obey these rules.

For example EVE University opens great range of new opportunities, but first one has to stick to its regulations and follow proper procedures. If one does not act properly, there is a range of sanctions the corp can enforce. If somebody messes EUni's system harmony it also reacts decisively. Plenty of different departments, campuses and institutions force the management to create efficiently working administration. It also runs its foreign politics. It creates an illusion of real-life working legal person. Or is it really an illusion?

I am new to EVE (about a month of active playing, also not very intensive), but basing on what I have read about it and what I see in-game, I am starting to think stronger and stronger that CCP's wonder child is not only one-of-a-kind game, but also a unique tool for exciting social experiments. We had economy scams, we can observe acts of masses of people that encounter a new variable. Everything lasting for more than a decade and still maintaining its continuity. But I didn't find any articles about Law in EVE. I mean in-game law, as there are some positions about relations between game cases solved by real-life law. I seek an answer on a question if people can create law in a virtual world, or it is insufficient to be called so?

I'm afraid I can't be clear about how I understand law. The problem with this concept is that everyone understands it, but when it comes to explaining, we encounter great dose of blockades. Let's begin with a set of rules, that are enforced by an entity that created them. It's pretty straight-forward, but makes it possible to generally differ it from ethics or savoir-vivre.

That's why I'd like to invite you to a discussion if players created something like legal systems in EVE? If yes, how do they look, what characerizes them? And even more interesting would be a question- how were they created? Is EULA kind of game's constitution, from which more concrete norms are derived? I think EVE can give us a little more data on why do we have law, why do we stick to it and how it was created.

For the mod- if I have chosen wrong place to start the thread I'm sorry, but I couldn't find better place for that.

I'll look it up, but I heard CODE is mor like a myth now and it's rule is not really visible.

By the way after consideration I think the thread is better for General discussion. And I have no Idea how to contact moderators to do something with it. I just misunderstood "ideas".

The only rules eve should have are rules against exploits, then the conditions that will trigger CONCORD.

Thread has been moved to EVE General Discussion.

Very true Agent Owen. I would even go as far as to say that the New Order of Highsec is probably the first true democracy in all of gaming. We are truly writing history here.

The only two laws I respect in Eve are the codebase and (as crazy as that might sound) civility.

Apart from the obvious set of rules enforced by CONCORD, Crimewatch and Sovereignity, players can only implement rules that are reasonably enforcable. Anything that is not actively enforced is not "law" but some fellow players preference. In that sense Eve is feudalistic and grimdark. In due time however, things became more civil, players essentially defeated the primordial stages of the game collectively, by building an economy. Just like how tribal systems were replaced with more "civil" ones in the real world.

Player enforced rules are a result of diplomacy. They get torn apart by anarchy. As these agreements are reinforced or diminished over time, and the environment is subject to change (updates), a certain state of flux of "normalcy" is almost guaranteed. Player agreements are indeed analogous to real world law, but we all know transgressions are easily forgiven. Mainly because the results are often intended to be hilarious, and often are.

RP forum is thataway over next to the bronies, furries and that guy who wanted to make a government in EvE

To the OP, i think you answered your own question. Of course there are rules made up by players in EvE that have consequences. Not sure what the actual question was if it wasn't that..

Can you share some more data about CODE? I never encountered it, but some people seem to fear you. And is that in fact pure roleplay, like Keno says, or you are really well organized group?



That's exactly what's most fascinating. In most MMOs (as far as I know), these rules created by players are rarely exceeding game mechanics. Here we have limited, but well planned framework that makes it possible for people to organize their game in their own way. And writing "Law" I don't mean "only law created by the devs", but every aspect of institutionalized organization. Your observation about civil law and transformation from tribal system touches one of the most mysterious and interesting aspects of legal theory- the genesis of law. Concepts of tribal law were presented even in 17th Century by Hobbes or Locke (so-called nature state) and later in 20th Century by Friedrich von Hayek, but they are always speculations. Observing something like tribes transforming into civilised societies in EVE of course won't give us sure answers how law was created and from which point we have something to do with law. Is there any source I could read something about it?



The question was strictly about existence of in-game law. Sole rules are not necesarily law. And EVE is incredibly complex system, which offers more opportunities for people organisation. Of course question: when rules begin to be legal rules? definitely isn't easy. When you are a member of, let's say, a golf club, it also has it's own rules, but you won't call them law. And this thread was created partially to indirectly answer the question about real law- basing on the experiences of EVE.

Shortly question is: From all these rules in EVE- are there some rules that resemble real-life legal rules?

Technically all legal structures are illusory in nature if there is no force ready to uphold it and therefore anarchistic in nature due to might makes right. Eve is no different than this tbh. Each rule of law in game is an informal agreement between players or groups of players that like real life legal statutes change at will and are often ad hoc or archaic in nature.

From Hammurabi's Code and religious regulations of old right up to our modern legal statutes they are a constantly an ever evolving reality. But fall and fail everytime that enforcement is impossible for whatever reason or if vigilantism, aka Code, is present and cannot be rebutted or stopped.

Often corps or alliances will outline in MOTD, bios, or outlined in alliance information sections the rules and regulations that they live by, more often lately by websites with statutes and regulations posted in a sticky for players to read and understand and therefore abide by simply by being in that corporation/alliance/group much like being born into a country we are inherently protected and also punished, regardless of knowledge of said laws, by these legal frameworks. Yet like in real life in game laws and rules can be changed and are considered feudal or monarch in nature.

There are no real legal frameworks created by CCP for us players to influence beyond the CSM or simply politics by gunfire and our own Machiavellian wits or friendships. And tbh I dont think there should be given the actual illusory nature of even our own modern laws and the limits of application and enforcement as they mostly act as meaningful, or to some meaningless, deterrents.


Btw OP yes Eve is a great social simulator. The best I have ever seen so far with a far reaching implications and applications for real world situations.

474 Corps:

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Goonswarm_Federation