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Planet V Trade
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Love Turtle
Stars in No Sky
Backward Time in a Strange Land
#21 - 2017-03-07 12:58:35 UTC
I have been playing this game for a long time and have been through many incarnations: pewpew, null, wh and just simple PvE grinding. I am getting old, so I trade mostly now through many accounts and toons.

I am not nearly as eloquent as Moac, IChooseYou or Karin, so I am reluctant to post out of embarrassment, but I would like to say something before I biomass.

The situation in the major trading hubs deserves attention from all the pilots of New Eden. This is not a local battle. It is indeed a fight for the future of freedom of trade in Eve.

When upstanding pilots are coerced into paying extortion fees to large gangs, it is a slippery slope. I do not question the integrity of anyone involved, but sometimes people make wrong choices and then get caught in a web of consequences that are beyond their control.

I urge those paying extortion fees to stop. Yes, you will lose some isk. We all may. But there is a moral absolute here. By supporting terrorism in hisec, you are degrading the game. Just say no.

Moac Tor, thank you for drawing the red line. I support your cause.
Ethan02
Succurit Research and Development
#22 - 2017-03-08 16:07:34 UTC
Pouring a bit of oil into the fire... Roll Currently it seems IChooseYou has the largest market share and growing:

https://www.adam4eve.eu/market_hubs.php
https://www.adam4eve.eu/location.php?id=1023164547009
Love Turtle
Stars in No Sky
Backward Time in a Strange Land
#23 - 2017-03-08 20:19:23 UTC
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.”
Granio Nyveev
Jita Trade Association
#24 - 2017-03-08 20:23:55 UTC
Clearly I'm too slow to figure this out on my own. Would someone mind helping me to understand this?

Why is PH interested in extorting HS citadel owners into raising their fees? I can't see what their end game is to this. How is it benefitting them? I get typical extortion - pay us or we'll blow up your citadel - but I don't understand "raise your fees or we'll blow up your citadel."

The only thing I can think up doesn’t even make sense. If they put the squeeze hard enough on HS citadels, they might be able to make their null citadels more attractive to trading and thus, draw some of the trading out to null, thus making things more readily available/cheaper to nullers… but that seems pretty farfetched.

Can someone please set me straight.

Thanks,

GN
Love Turtle
Stars in No Sky
Backward Time in a Strange Land
#25 - 2017-03-08 20:39:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Love Turtle
Granio Nyveev wrote:
Clearly I'm too slow to figure this out on my own. Would someone mind helping me to understand this?

Why is PH interested in extorting HS citadel owners into raising their fees? I can't see what their end game is to this. How is it benefitting them? I get typical extortion - pay us or we'll blow up your citadel - but I don't understand "raise your fees or we'll blow up your citadel."

The only thing I can think up doesn’t even make sense. If they put the squeeze hard enough on HS citadels, they might be able to make their null citadels more attractive to trading and thus, draw some of the trading out to null, thus making things more readily available/cheaper to nullers… but that seems pretty farfetched.

Can someone please set me straight.

Thanks,

GN


Pandemic Horde are not forcing HS trading citadels to raise their fees. It is simpler than that. They are the Eve equivalent of the Mafia. They are demanding ISK for "protection."

You want to run a trade hub in Perimeter? No problem. Pay PH 100b a month and they will make sure you are safe.

You miss a payment and they break your legs.

Now then, what happens when someone agrees to pay 200b per month? Or 300b? Or what happens when the Gambino's decide Perimeter is actually their turf?

There is someone already reading this thread that thinks he has an answer to that, but I won't name names. I suspect he is quite nervous though.

Racketeering gets ugly quick. I pity those that have fallen into the web more than I hate them.

As for me, I will trade only in the ♔ Planet V - Offshore Trading hubs.
Karin Yang
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2017-03-08 20:42:36 UTC
Granio Nyveev wrote:
Clearly I'm too slow to figure this out on my own. Would someone mind helping me to understand this?

Why is PH interested in extorting HS citadel owners into raising their fees? I can't see what their end game is to this. How is it benefitting them? I get typical extortion - pay us or we'll blow up your citadel - but I don't understand "raise your fees or we'll blow up your citadel."

The only thing I can think up doesn’t even make sense. If they put the squeeze hard enough on HS citadels, they might be able to make their null citadels more attractive to trading and thus, draw some of the trading out to null, thus making things more readily available/cheaper to nullers… but that seems pretty farfetched.

Can someone please set me straight.

Thanks,

GN


Because the brokers fee of citadels will finally fall into PH's pocket through IChooseYou's hand. It can be trillions per month.
Jarr Kaleb
#27 - 2017-03-09 02:23:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarr Kaleb
Ethan02 wrote:
Pouring a bit of oil into the fire... Roll Currently it seems IChooseYou has the largest market share and growing
IChooseYou should say thank you to Planet V group. He has it this easy just because Planet V is helping him with correct brokerage rates. Pirate


___

@IChooseYou, can you do something with your Perimeter hub placement? I am crying every time I fly freighters or heavy tanked transports. It is huuuuge pain in the ass to undock from your hub with all that bumping\re-aligning to Jita\any other gate. I imagine how pissed people who fly freighters a lot more than me.

EVE-Mogul structures in New Caldari have the same problem as well as some of NETC citadels. I'm not good at photoshop, but here is a quick guide how to place a trade hub\engineering complex so freighter pilots will <3 you.
Shank Yoass
Stars in No Sky
Backward Time in a Strange Land
#28 - 2017-03-09 13:13:53 UTC
PH gonna take you down, brah.

Ain't no way to stop the Horde. Best idea is be assimilated. Join us. It don't hurt.

No trade is the free trade.

We coming.
Jarr Kaleb
#29 - 2017-03-09 15:41:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarr Kaleb
Shank Yoass wrote:
PH gonna take you down, brah.

Ain't no way to stop the Horde. Best idea is be assimilated. Join us. It don't hurt.

No trade is the free trade.

We coming.

From traders with <3!

Bear
Fannie Anathema
Anathema Holdings LTD.
#30 - 2017-03-09 15:59:59 UTC
Shank Yoass wrote:
PH gonna take you down, brah.

Ain't no way to stop the Horde. Best idea is be assimilated. Join us. It don't hurt.

No trade is the free trade.

We coming.



You're a cocky one aren't you?
Bentley Goodfriend
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2017-03-10 07:10:27 UTC
Shank Yoass wrote:
PH gonna take you down, brah.

Ain't no way to stop the Horde. Best idea is be assimilated. Join us. It don't hurt.

No trade is the free trade.

We coming.



This prompt the classic

Someone set up us the bomb
All your base are belong to us... ,brah
Pindi buoy
Gud Fites in Local
#32 - 2017-03-10 16:03:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Pindi buoy
Battle Apple wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Battle Apple wrote:
Isn't it a bit silly to pose as this savior of free trade under Karins banner, when he himself was paying highsec Mercs to do the very same thing that Horde is doing now? Roll

Karin hired the mercenaries to help fight the extortionists, so that is very different to what Pandemic Horde are looking to do.


Before he hired the mercs to fight Horde, he was using them to bully other market owners into shutting down or raising their rates so he could increase his profits. So the extortionist was just replaced with another.


This is correct.

Karin plotted with PH leader to take down competing citadels and share profits, then backed out of the deal. Consequently, his citadels were hit.

OP is spinning a bunch of lies tbh. All of the logs were leaked on reddit.


You can also read this log where Karin and the null leader make a deal to kill other citadels:
http://pastebin.com/VH0D7BuB
http://pastebin.com/H18jcw4g
http://pastebin.com/X1KviFwR


Quote:

The merchant known as Karin, owner of the main tax hub in perimeter claims that:
http://i.imgur.com/1SsXLGH.png
He is fighting against panfam oppressing
He is fighting to keep taxes to 0 - 0.1%
He was attacked for refusing to pay a 100 bil ransom

What actually happened:
He made a deal with ph to kill his competitors before trying to turn on ph
He is trying to jack the tax as high as possible
He then tried to dupe helpless alphas into suiciding to protect his doomed business venture.

Background
When we came to perimeter and started wardeccing people, Karin agreed to share profits in return for ph clearing out all of his competition. Here is some evidence:
Admiral Goberius > you said you are forced to keep 0% tax most of the time, we can make it so you can keep it higher and profit more
Karin Yang > yes, that's the idea
Karin Yang > if the rate is actually that high, I don't doubt I can make 160b+
Karin Yang > we can discuss price based on rate
Karin Yang > how much you can push

Karin sent us a list of competitor citadels he needs killed http://i.imgur.com/rtvLVyI.png

Gobbins > do you wanna plan the next moves?
Karin Yang > seems that you have a plan?
Gobbins > yeah my plan is to kill all those other fortizars
Gobbins > raise your tax
Gobbins > and split the income
Gobbins > pretty much what we discussed yesterday
Karin Yang > yes, I agreed with that plan

Karin Yang > from my opinion, if we can't raise rate to 0.3% or 0.5% in the future, there's not much interest for me to do it. I want to work with you, to make big money, but I want to see that you are going for that goal too

Karin Yang > there're trillions waiting for us
Pindi buoy
Gud Fites in Local
#33 - 2017-03-10 16:09:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Pindi buoy
Moac Tor wrote:
Battle Apple wrote:
Isn't it a bit silly to pose as this savior of free trade under Karins banner, when he himself was paying highsec Mercs to do the very same thing that Horde is doing now? Roll

Karin hired the mercenaries to help fight the extortionists, so that is very different to what Pandemic Horde are looking to do. Mercenaries will simply do what their paymaster asks of them, whether that be for good or bad.

Our current strategy doesn't require that we hire mercenaries as we are looking to keep our costs low. Although if they offered their service for a fee which is low enough for us to continue to efficiently run our operation, then I would have no issue in hiring them in order to help fight the null sec entities looking to extort the traders of The Forge.


It's hard to trust and invest with you. You do not provide any stability, have made an enemy out of the one of the biggest nullsec bloc and cannot be trusted because you are lying.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/5o7lhl/people_of_perimeter_your_traders_have_lied_to_you/

Seeing the other side of story, and your story, my problem is one side is providing logs of the opposite of what you're saying. While your story is basically just your words.

I understand the truth is somewhere in middle, but this raises the risk for my time and investment.
Karin Yang
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2017-03-10 17:02:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Karin Yang
Pindi buoy wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Battle Apple wrote:
Isn't it a bit silly to pose as this savior of free trade under Karins banner, when he himself was paying highsec Mercs to do the very same thing that Horde is doing now? Roll

Karin hired the mercenaries to help fight the extortionists, so that is very different to what Pandemic Horde are looking to do. Mercenaries will simply do what their paymaster asks of them, whether that be for good or bad.

Our current strategy doesn't require that we hire mercenaries as we are looking to keep our costs low. Although if they offered their service for a fee which is low enough for us to continue to efficiently run our operation, then I would have no issue in hiring them in order to help fight the null sec entities looking to extort the traders of The Forge.


It's hard to trust and invest with you. You do not provide any stability, have made an enemy out of the one of the biggest nullsec bloc and cannot be trusted because you are lying.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/5o7lhl/people_of_perimeter_your_traders_have_lied_to_you/

Seeing the other side of story, and your story, my problem is one side is providing logs of the opposite of what you're saying. While your story is basically just your words.

I understand the truth is somewhere in middle, but this raises the risk for my time and investment.

You don't need to trust me, but Karin is Karin and Moac is Moac. Moac isn't spinning any lie. If there is any scam, that's between PH and Karin.

The truth is that PH and I are both scamming each other. They want to extort/scam money from me and I want to postpone their offense to get more time to prepare for defense. In the end, they failed to scam a penny from me and wasted two more month to start making money from citadels, and I failed to scam any time for defense.

If you check the date of war dec history and your pastebin date, you will find that convos are during the war. Why would you think that I will tell truth to my enemy? Shouldn't I plot with PH before the war, rather than during the war?
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2017-03-10 18:11:20 UTC
Karin Yang wrote:

The truth is that PH and I are both scamming each other. They want to extort/scam money from me and I want to postpone their offense to get more time to prepare for defense. In the end, they failed to scam a penny from me and wasted two more month to start making money from citadels, and I failed to scam any time for defense.

If you check the date of war dec history and your pastebin date, you will find that convos are during the war. Why would you think that I will tell truth to my enemy? Shouldn't I plot with PH before the war, rather than during the war?

Yeah, read the logs, in full, not the parts hand-picked by Gobbins to spin his cause. Build your own opinion.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Jarr Kaleb
#36 - 2017-03-10 18:25:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarr Kaleb
@Pindi buoy, are you another Gobbins alt? He spams this everywhere he can. Straight

Pindi buoy wrote:
It's hard to trust and invest with you. You do not provide any stability, have made an enemy out of the one of the biggest nullsec bloc and cannot be trusted because you are lying.
Karin did provide stability for many months and he can be trusted. In 2016, Karin promised permanent 0.0% to people willing to help him with defence and he never changed his word. Also, Karin never lied about public brokerage rates, he did change them at some point iirc but he never said that he is offering x% while actually having y%.

[edited]
Damn, wait... did you mistake Moac for Karin? You seem to not even know who is who and what is going on but was quick to post.

Roll
Jarr Kaleb
#37 - 2017-03-10 19:17:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarr Kaleb
Pindi buoy wrote:
Karin plotted with PH leader to take down competing citadels and share profits, then backed out of the deal. Consequently, his citadels were hit.

OP is spinning a bunch of lies tbh. All of the logs were leaked on reddit.


You can also read this log where Karin and the null leader make a deal to kill other citadels
Yes, you do sound like a PH alt...

Traders see competition between hub owners as a perfectly normal thing and most of us don't give a **** about it as long as we get a good place to trade and have ours x-y% fees with no scam. It was PH that ****** up the market we had in Perimeter and even now PH continue to fooling around with a bunch of their 0.1% structures plus ICY's hub instead of trying to concentrate traffic in one place.
Love Turtle
Stars in No Sky
Backward Time in a Strange Land
#38 - 2017-03-10 23:12:35 UTC
There are a lot of words being wasted on accusations and recriminations and obfuscation here.

This situation is really quite simple:

Planet V is offering and paying a large price to defend the freedom of trade, starting in Jita, but presumably throughout all of New Eden, in order to serve the interests of the entire Eve community, even in the face of seemingly overwhelming aggression.

Pandemic Horde has sworn to wardec all offshore market hubs, except for those who pay them enormous and ever increasing "protection" fees. They are attempting to monopolize trade in order to reap ill-gotten monopoly profits at the expense of the entire Eve community.

None of this is inferred. It is the avowed and evidenced intent of both sides. No discussion or study required.

This is pretty much as clear a war between good and evil as you can find. I know Eve is just a game, and everyone has the right to use it as an outlet for their repressed childhood fears and anxieties, but I choose to use it as a way to express the person I want to be.

With my dying breath, I will stand with Moac Tor and Planet V Offshore Trading to do what is right, against all odds, at least once in my life.

Moac, keep up the good work and fly with the sword of the righteous. Let us know what we can do to help
Shank Yoass
Stars in No Sky
Backward Time in a Strange Land
#39 - 2017-03-11 23:35:28 UTC
You talk all purty and all.

My momma never did nothing to me. I had the happiest childhood. I am proud to be a member of Pandemic Horde. We all whoop it up. Look at our forums. We got porn.

I don't mind killing hi-sec hubs. Why not? Might as well kill something. They don't talk back, like real life.

Ain't no decision. Join us.
Jarr Kaleb
#40 - 2017-03-12 15:58:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarr Kaleb