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Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2012-01-21 21:20:21 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:
Salpun wrote:
CCP Veritas. Is the node reinforced? And how close is the tech now to hot swap full nodes and reinforce them on the fly, while spliting off none contested systems?

No, there are 75 systems on that node today.

The tech to move systems around has recently gone through a very nice refactoring, but remains destructive - people in the moved systems are still disconnected. It's definitely on our wishlist to make this non-destructive, but work toward that goal is not currently on anyone's roadmap that I'm aware of.


Would it be possible to "hiccup" the system, everything freezes and everyone session changes into the new node? Place a further one minute cooldown before ships are placed to get everything loaded and flash a message "node overloaded, moving to reinforced, please request a reinforced node for your large fleet fights next time." Also include a loading bar so people know how long they have to go. It doesn't have to be seamless, especially if there's an indication that this is partially a penalty TO for failing to properly request a node in advance.
CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#82 - 2012-01-21 21:30:55 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
[quote=CCP Veritas]Would it be possible to "hiccup" the system, everything freezes and everyone session changes into the new node? Place a further one minute cooldown before ships are placed to get everything loaded and flash a message "node overloaded, moving to reinforced, please request a reinforced node for your large fleet fights next time." Also include a loading bar so people know how long they have to go. It doesn't have to be seamless, especially if there's an indication that this is partially a penalty TO for failing to properly request a node in advance.

It's possible of course, but our systems are not architected in such a way that makes this easy. Off the top of my head I'd guesstimate about a year's worth of work for someone who's already up to speed with the cluster solution and the gameplay implementation, plus a heavy dollop of QA time.

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#83 - 2012-01-21 22:33:02 UTC
After another fight which was mostly under TD, I have to say that logi loves it... its painful, horrible, and terrible, but in a way that can be worked with, instead of being totally random like before. Fix the jump gates and I think it will be just about the perfect solution(other than eliminating lag totally, which so far seem to require turning off the servers)

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Benedic
EVE University
Ivy League
#84 - 2012-01-22 00:50:42 UTC
I just wanted to publically thank CCP for tidi! This is my first fleet fight since it's been introduced and it is the first fleet fight in literally -years- that I was able to participate in properly without lagging to the point that everything was completely broken. I actually quit playing Eve back during the initial war against BoB because i lost ship after ship to the same situation where I'd warp in and be dead before I ever loaded grid. It would take 45-50 minutes to load.

Today I was able to fully participate (albeit painfully slowly so I missed 99% of kills while watching the 20 second locks) but I was able to load grids and warp in and out relatively well. We were under huge time dilation but at least when I engaged modules they activated.

I am very much happier as a result of this - I stopped doing large fleet stuff altogether because of how bad it had been over the last years but I will log in much more often if this is the kind of experience I'm going to have in future.

I know you've taken a lot of flak for this feature in this thread but I think it's -amazing-.
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2012-01-22 06:54:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarnis McPieksu
As I understand it, tons of people fought (~2000 pilots over several hours), two titans, some dreads and a metric crapton of subcapitals died while the node didn't die. This alone makes TiDi a huge win.

The fact that it happened on an unreinforced node that also ran 70something other systems on it (who naturally got TiDi:d hard as well) is nothing short of amazing. If some carebear five systems over was "lagged" by 10% TiDi, it is pointless to whine - without it he would've been staring at the loading screen trying to log back on as the node would have died horribly.

I unsubbed from EVE after Dominion broke fleet fights to a point of unplayability and resubbed when news of this deploying to live servers was announced. Glad to see it working.

http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?brid=3453 = overview of the battle. I hope I'm not blapped by the mods for posting this link, it is merely to illustrate the massive size of the battle.

Alliances involved: 33
Corporations involved: 252
Players involved: 2073

Shocked
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2012-01-22 09:46:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilbaron
It would be pretty cool if ccp could state which level of tidi we could expect if it had happened on a reinforced node

I heard mostly positive comments from those involved btw
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2012-01-22 10:02:29 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
CCP Veritas wrote:
Salpun wrote:
CCP Veritas. Is the node reinforced? And how close is the tech now to hot swap full nodes and reinforce them on the fly, while spliting off none contested systems?

No, there are 75 systems on that node today.

The tech to move systems around has recently gone through a very nice refactoring, but remains destructive - people in the moved systems are still disconnected. It's definitely on our wishlist to make this non-destructive, but work toward that goal is not currently on anyone's roadmap that I'm aware of.


Would it be possible to "hiccup" the system, everything freezes and everyone session changes into the new node? Place a further one minute cooldown before ships are placed to get everything loaded and flash a message "node overloaded, moving to reinforced, please request a reinforced node for your large fleet fights next time." Also include a loading bar so people know how long they have to go. It doesn't have to be seamless, especially if there's an indication that this is partially a penalty TO for failing to properly request a node in advance.



We use blade clusters where I work.

Dynamic load sharing is EXTREMELY hard to to do, particularly in performance oriented high bandwidth applications, it literally took us 5 years to to mange it on an elemental basis (as in elements of a larger system), we haven't gotten it to a true load determinate allocation yet.
John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#88 - 2012-01-22 11:39:46 UTC
Overall a great feature!

However, TD becomes a huge problem when combined with lag. :D


Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#89 - 2012-01-22 11:50:20 UTC
John Maynard Keynes wrote:
Overall a great feature!

However, TD becomes a huge problem when combined with lag. :D



uh... I think you fail to understand what TD is.

Its FORMALIZED lag, so that the system has a way to handle it gracefully.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2012-01-22 12:33:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Tallian Saotome wrote:
John Maynard Keynes wrote:
Overall a great feature!

However, TD becomes a huge problem when combined with lag. :D



uh... I think you fail to understand what TD is.

Its FORMALIZED lag, so that the system has a way to handle it gracefully.



Not to mention the player.

Everything happens in the right order, so you don't go from cruising along fighting to back in station without ever being yellowboxed.
Zleon Leigh
#91 - 2012-01-22 13:08:23 UTC
So - we're seeing TiDi engage in empty systems and in Jita. Fail? Oh wait!! By engaging it in empty systems you can lower how much hardware you need to field. Guess returning nodes to vendor is next step after layoffs....

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#92 - 2012-01-22 13:19:37 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:
So - we're seeing TiDi engage in empty systems and in Jita. Fail? Oh wait!! By engaging it in empty systems you can lower how much hardware you need to field. Guess returning nodes to vendor is next step after layoffs....

Jita is getting TD? All right, its time to go do some jita undock camping Pirate

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Finde learth
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2012-01-22 13:39:57 UTC
Sluht Hunter wrote:
[quote=DarkAegix]
*note*
I realize that not all %94 of players not in the battle will suffer the Tidi but many will.
Basic logic dictates, The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few.

How many will?
Do you know TiDi only affect few systems?
CCP Lemur
#94 - 2012-01-22 13:44:52 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:
So - we're seeing TiDi engage in empty systems and in Jita. Fail? Oh wait!! By engaging it in empty systems you can lower how much hardware you need to field. Guess returning nodes to vendor is next step after layoffs....


I'm not a Veritas but I assume that since some nodes host a bunch of low load systems at once TiDi would kick in for all of these when one gets a sudden spike of activity. Or would you rather have the ones just screwed without any indicators? And I'm sure we are not giving any nodes back rather getting better ones like we have always been doing in the past and will continue to be doing in the future.

QA Guy | Special Ops Picture up to your IMGination.
Zleon Leigh
#95 - 2012-01-22 15:42:06 UTC
CCP Lemur wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
So - we're seeing TiDi engage in empty systems and in Jita. Fail? Oh wait!! By engaging it in empty systems you can lower how much hardware you need to field. Guess returning nodes to vendor is next step after layoffs....


I'm not a Veritas but I assume that since some nodes host a bunch of low load systems at once TiDi would kick in for all of these when one gets a sudden spike of activity. Or would you rather have the ones just screwed without any indicators? And I'm sure we are not giving any nodes back rather getting better ones like we have always been doing in the past and will continue to be doing in the future.



I'm in a 0.0 system with 17 pilots in it, several docked in station, NO FIGHTING, peaceful as can be - TiDI kicked in. LAME.


Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#96 - 2012-01-22 15:44:29 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:
CCP Lemur wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
So - we're seeing TiDi engage in empty systems and in Jita. Fail? Oh wait!! By engaging it in empty systems you can lower how much hardware you need to field. Guess returning nodes to vendor is next step after layoffs....


I'm not a Veritas but I assume that since some nodes host a bunch of low load systems at once TiDi would kick in for all of these when one gets a sudden spike of activity. Or would you rather have the ones just screwed without any indicators? And I'm sure we are not giving any nodes back rather getting better ones like we have always been doing in the past and will continue to be doing in the future.



I'm in a 0.0 system with 17 pilots in it, several docked in station, NO FIGHTING, peaceful as can be - TiDI kicked in. LAME.



And some where else 1000 pilots are shooting another 1000 pilots in the face fair trade in my book.Twisted

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2012-01-22 15:46:16 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:
CCP Lemur wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
So - we're seeing TiDi engage in empty systems and in Jita. Fail? Oh wait!! By engaging it in empty systems you can lower how much hardware you need to field. Guess returning nodes to vendor is next step after layoffs....


I'm not a Veritas but I assume that since some nodes host a bunch of low load systems at once TiDi would kick in for all of these when one gets a sudden spike of activity. Or would you rather have the ones just screwed without any indicators? And I'm sure we are not giving any nodes back rather getting better ones like we have always been doing in the past and will continue to be doing in the future.



I'm in a 0.0 system with 17 pilots in it, several docked in station, NO FIGHTING, peaceful as can be - TiDI kicked in. LAME.




I think you fail to understand that single physical server can run multiple solar systems.

In the case of this huge fight, reportedly the same node (server computer) ran 75 solar systems. One of them has a huge fight and all 75 get time dilated because they are all on the same server.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#98 - 2012-01-22 15:52:34 UTC
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
CCP Lemur wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
So - we're seeing TiDi engage in empty systems and in Jita. Fail? Oh wait!! By engaging it in empty systems you can lower how much hardware you need to field. Guess returning nodes to vendor is next step after layoffs....


I'm not a Veritas but I assume that since some nodes host a bunch of low load systems at once TiDi would kick in for all of these when one gets a sudden spike of activity. Or would you rather have the ones just screwed without any indicators? And I'm sure we are not giving any nodes back rather getting better ones like we have always been doing in the past and will continue to be doing in the future.



I'm in a 0.0 system with 17 pilots in it, several docked in station, NO FIGHTING, peaceful as can be - TiDI kicked in. LAME.




I think you fail to understand that single physical server can run multiple solar systems.

In the case of this huge fight, reportedly the same node (server computer) ran 75 solar systems. One of them has a huge fight and all 75 get time dilated because they are all on the same server.

If its that bad jump clone to high or ls and do something there.

or play on an alt. Hopefully the system they want to fight in today got reinforced and the lag is only going to be the in route traffic which should help alot.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Zleon Leigh
#99 - 2012-01-22 15:54:15 UTC
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
CCP Lemur wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
So - we're seeing TiDi engage in empty systems and in Jita. Fail? Oh wait!! By engaging it in empty systems you can lower how much hardware you need to field. Guess returning nodes to vendor is next step after layoffs....


I'm not a Veritas but I assume that since some nodes host a bunch of low load systems at once TiDi would kick in for all of these when one gets a sudden spike of activity. Or would you rather have the ones just screwed without any indicators? And I'm sure we are not giving any nodes back rather getting better ones like we have always been doing in the past and will continue to be doing in the future.



I'm in a 0.0 system with 17 pilots in it, several docked in station, NO FIGHTING, peaceful as can be - TiDI kicked in. LAME.




I think you fail to understand that single physical server can run multiple solar systems.

In the case of this huge fight, reportedly the same node (server computer) ran 75 solar systems. One of them has a huge fight and all 75 get time dilated because they are all on the same server.


LOL Trust me... I understand. There is no reason for TiDi to kick in for all systems on a node - that would just be stupid. You dilate the stressed systems and fork off the low end systems to other nodes. You don't turn the clock down on the entire CPU stack.



Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#100 - 2012-01-22 15:58:11 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:
Salpun wrote:
CCP Veritas. Is the node reinforced? And how close is the tech now to hot swap full nodes and reinforce them on the fly, while spliting off none contested systems?

No, there are 75 systems on that node today.

The tech to move systems around has recently gone through a very nice refactoring, but remains destructive - people in the moved systems are still disconnected. It's definitely on our wishlist to make this non-destructive, but work toward that goal is not currently on anyone's roadmap that I'm aware of.

That ability is still in the planing stages. I think Veritas as switched to client lag for the moment.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.