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Time Dilation feedback

First post First post
Author
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#41 - 2012-01-18 18:39:37 UTC
Zerephin Audeles wrote:

Took about 45 secs to undock with time dilation at 83%.

Am I correct in thinking this was meant to be for large fleet fights, as it seems to also affects systems with only 6 in local..
Its made everything so slow in normal scenarios, not a welcome addition for me i'm afraid..


Manssell wrote:
I just got the TD in a one man fight against a rat Shocked
...


Timural wrote:
There is a significant fleet fight going on. 800+ its possible these other systems share the same node and are dealing with time dilatation because of it. Or TiDi is too sensitive and needs to be tuned back.


There was indeed a significant fleet fight going on and many other systems shared the same node, which caused TiDi in all systems on this server node (without TiDi they would have been just lagged out).

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing

Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
Together We Solo
#42 - 2012-01-18 18:48:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Manssell
CCP Habakuk wrote:
Zerephin Audeles wrote:

Took about 45 secs to undock with time dilation at 83%.

Am I correct in thinking this was meant to be for large fleet fights, as it seems to also affects systems with only 6 in local..
Its made everything so slow in normal scenarios, not a welcome addition for me i'm afraid..


Manssell wrote:
I just got the TD in a one man fight against a rat Shocked
...


Timural wrote:
There is a significant fleet fight going on. 800+ its possible these other systems share the same node and are dealing with time dilatation because of it. Or TiDi is too sensitive and needs to be tuned back.


There was indeed a significant fleet fight going on and many other systems shared the same node, which caused TiDi in all systems on this server node (without TiDi they would have been just lagged out).


I think I'm a couple of regions away for that fight though. Granted I'm not sure how the nodes are actually set up and what systems are on wich ones, but the two neighboring systems seem to both be fine (just tested it agian and one of them is getting the TD but a lot less than the problem one).
Sirius Cassiopeiae
Perkone
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-01-18 20:12:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Sirius Cassiopeiae
About that TiDi.
Can you guys please make that ship computer say to us something like "Ships sensors discovered time flux anomaly generated by unknown source. Ship computer cant predict time variables in this conditions." when that system is under influence of TiDi so that all things don't just go slow... give it a story behind it so that ppl know that's not a bug.
And i every space stories there are some time anomalies so... its story vise actually nice thing...

and/or add some in space graphic that will show us some anomaly that cause that time anomaly...
That will be addition to game gameplay as well then... Smile
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#44 - 2012-01-18 21:02:43 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
I'm a little disappointed that Jita with over 1600 pilots doesn't have TiDi.

On that note. Is using station services/market and CQ affected by TiDi? I'm guessing that it only affects everything in space? This was already answered somewhere, possibly? I might go looking for the answer myself.

Another edit: I was trying to be a little funny. I have been told before that I shouldn't try.

Possibly the last edit: Some people here seem to be talking about Turret Disruption.
Rixiu
PonyTek
#45 - 2012-01-18 21:16:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Rixiu
non judgement wrote:
I'm a little disappointed that Jita with over 1600 pilots doesn't have TiDi.

On that note. Is using station services/market and CQ affected by TiDi? I'm guessing that it only affects everything in space? This was already answered somewhere, possibly? I might go looking for the answer myself.


TiDi would be useless in Jita since most of the people are docked in the station. How would tidi work there? Making it take longer to set up a contract or market order?

Edit: The fact that TiDi affects all the systems on the node is very annoying. Wouldn't it be possible to use virtualization be useful for this, using one virtual server for each solar system? Then again I guess performance would suck big time... Any plans to solve this though?
Swidgen
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2012-01-18 21:31:49 UTC
CCP Habakuk wrote:
[quote=Zerephin Audeles]There was indeed a significant fleet fight going on and many other systems shared the same node, which caused TiDi in all systems on this server node (without TiDi they would have been just lagged out).

I won't pass judgment on your TiDi design decisions, but I will say this: If the granularity is not enough to target individual solar systems - i.e. other systems on the same node have to be dragged under when one system needs TiDi - I think you're in for a world of hurt and rage.
Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
#47 - 2012-01-18 22:06:20 UTC
Not sure if TD have anything to do, however today the whole game is really unresponsive. Takes ages to install manufacturing jobs, clicking on the undock button, and for 10 seconds nothing happens.
ASadOldGit
School of Applied Knowledge
#48 - 2012-01-18 23:11:56 UTC
Sirius Cassiopeiae wrote:
About that TiDi.
Can you guys please make that ship computer say to us something like "Ships sensors discovered time flux anomaly generated by unknown source. Ship computer cant predict time variables in this conditions." when that system is under influence of TiDi so that all things don't just go slow... give it a story behind it so that ppl know that's not a bug.
And i every space stories there are some time anomalies so... its story vise actually nice thing...

and/or add some in space graphic that will show us some anomaly that cause that time anomaly...
That will be addition to game gameplay as well then... Smile

Perhaps a small visual indicator, like the session timer, or a percentage (whether a % of full speed, or % slowdown) would be better. I can imagine an audio alert would get really annoying, really quickly, if it played every time lag hovered around the TiDi threshold (depending on how often it's calculated).

This signature intentionally left blank for you to fill in at your leisure.

Sluht Hunter
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-01-18 23:44:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Sluht Hunter
The lag caused by TiDi to the rest of us not in the fleet fight or even in 0.0 where its going down is a bit annoying. X

Trying to get your right click menu to respond so you can warp to a bm, or station can take 5-10 seconds to appear.

If running a mission guns/mods don't turn off until almost half way through another cycle after target is dead.

I understand why TiDi was introduced, I have been in lag fest fleet fights in the past. But myself I am not liking the effects of this new system on game play in empire space. I know I am not the only one that finds it annoying. Others I have talked with are pissed. This needs fixed asap it could cause lost subscriptions. Why should the majority percent have to pay for the few percent of logged in players to get their jollies in a fleet fight. JMHO
J Kunjeh
#50 - 2012-01-18 23:49:18 UTC
Is TIDI the reason I've been getting pop-up's that say something like "major lag...whoa boy"? I've never before that I can recall seen these, but got 2-3 in about 10 minutes today sitting in a station in Sinq doing nothing at all....weird.

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 

Nikolai Kazansky
Quantum Link Company
Simple Farmers
#51 - 2012-01-19 00:23:29 UTC
Let me guess. TiDi is the reason I can no longer right-click in open space (only on celestials) and cannot access my places in people in places. Kind of makes it hard to warp to a bookmark if I cannot access a menu which has them. This wouldn't be so bad if it wasnt for the fact that I am in a wormhole and can't go anywhere if I can't able to access my bookmarks >.<.
And I don't even want to think about trying to scan whilst this is going on.

Suffice to say that TiDi in a wormhole is HELL.
Please look into this.
Katherine Starlight
P.0.D. Inc.
#52 - 2012-01-19 01:12:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Katherine Starlight
Breaking News!

CCP gave up the long war on lag and commited treason towards its pets, they made The Lag blue, now they are working together with The Lag machines to crush the puny human players. This is just the beginning of the end.

Sums up Time Diliation in an actual EVE enviroment
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
#53 - 2012-01-19 02:29:48 UTC
ASadOldGit wrote:
Sirius Cassiopeiae wrote:
About that TiDi.
Can you guys please make that ship computer say to us something like "Ships sensors discovered time flux anomaly generated by unknown source. Ship computer cant predict time variables in this conditions." when that system is under influence of TiDi so that all things don't just go slow... give it a story behind it so that ppl know that's not a bug.
And i every space stories there are some time anomalies so... its story vise actually nice thing...

and/or add some in space graphic that will show us some anomaly that cause that time anomaly...
That will be addition to game gameplay as well then... Smile

Perhaps a small visual indicator, like the session timer, or a percentage (whether a % of full speed, or % slowdown) would be better. I can imagine an audio alert would get really annoying, really quickly, if it played every time lag hovered around the TiDi threshold (depending on how often it's calculated).


They have one its just out of the way where it should be. Watch the Dev video.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Khors
Doomheim
#54 - 2012-01-19 08:52:22 UTC
FC's talks slower during time dialation to the point where they might fall asleep.
Tread carefully CCP.
totalamd5
TotalAMD Corp
#55 - 2012-01-19 10:45:32 UTC
CCP Veritas, how can we see that TD is active? Is there small circle on the corner like in your video?
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
#56 - 2012-01-19 10:48:30 UTC
totalamd5 wrote:
CCP Veritas, how can we see that TD is active? Is there small circle on the corner like in your video?

Yes there is that small circle. I have seen it during mass tests on Sisi showing the degree of TIDI.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#57 - 2012-01-20 01:11:13 UTC
Quote:
Wouldn't it be possible to use virtualization be useful for this, using one virtual server for each solar system?

Virtualization would compound the problem. Each node is almost certainly a separate process, making the server run a whole operating system for every one would increase resource use by a metric ton.

Quote:
CCP gave up the long war on lag and commited treason towards its pets, they made The Lag blue, now they are working together with The Lag machines to crush the puny human players. This is just the beginning of the end.

TD is a fantastic addition to the package of tools CCP can bring to bear against the lag issue. Theres really only a few things you can do about lag:

1: Optimize (see the changes to missiles and other efforts)
2: Reduce features (not very popular)
3: Slow things down / increase server cycle time, which is what TD is all about.
4: Increase resources (See server reinforcement / node migration)

The challenge with eve is that there are tens of thousands of systems, and no good way to predict where the resources will be needed. Clearly buying tens of thousands of jita quality servers is simply not an option. CCP has been trying to address this from all of the possible angles, and there IS more that can be done in all those areas, but TD is a major step forward.

Future efforts might include a way to "live migrate" a node to a beefy server, but things like that get really tricky to make work well.

So way to go CCP! Keep up the good work :)
DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
#58 - 2012-01-20 01:43:57 UTC  |  Edited by: DarkAegix
Most of the complaints in this thread are not tidi related.

Also, the ones which are tidi related are unfounded.
Without time dilation, your mission/ratting ship would lag out and die, as your modules fail to work and you can't move.
Sluht Hunter
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#59 - 2012-01-20 16:47:13 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
Most of the complaints in this thread are not tidi related.

Also, the ones which are tidi related are unfounded.
Without time dilation, your mission/ratting ship would lag out and die, as your modules fail to work and you can't move.


This is simply not true. Before Tidi I had no lag issues while ratting or pve. Only now that they have put this in place do I notice the lag. And I am not the only one that has noticed.


As I stated in my last post. I understand the awfulness that is massive lag in a huge fleet battle. However I still do not understand how CCP can justify lagging out the majority of subscribers to benefit the minority of subscribers. Lets look deeper into this.

Lets make up some supposed numbers for the sake of argument.

It is now the weekend and say 45,000 subscribers are logged into EvE.

There is a tasty system PL wants to take from another very large alliance in null space. So between the 2 alliances fighting it out for sov, say 2,500 subscribers show up to fight.

Lets do some math.

2,500 subscribers is aprox %6 of subscribers online at time of massive battle.

That leaves the other %94 of subscribers cussing at their monitors because they have to suffer the Tidi so that %6 of online players can have a massive lag free fleet battle.

*note*

I realize that not all %94 of players not in the battle will suffer the Tidi but many will.


Basic logic dictates, The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#60 - 2012-01-20 16:55:24 UTC
It might be good if we had some sort of idea of what each "node" covers. That way people who don't want time dilation can avoid the systems in that node. Maybe they already told us and I missed it.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815