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Time Dilation feedback

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Author
Zleon Leigh
#161 - 2012-02-08 16:10:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Zleon Leigh
Vegare wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:

Not true - before the miners were not getting lagged out, just the fleet fights. Now people outside of the fleet system are getting impacted.



Unintentionally, you've just proven my point xD


Wrong... your point is off. Let's try again - before TiDi only fleet fights were lagged. Now innocent bystanders are getting impacted by a minority event.

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Zifrian
The Pannion Domin
#162 - 2012-02-10 22:57:13 UTC
Tonight was the first time I've had to experience this. Basically two systems we are in are affected and the large fleet battle going on isn't even in our region.

I appreciate the work that went into this as I know how crappy it was to sit there and not be able to do anything in a big fleet fight but when we have 10 people in a system that can't even do anything all because a fight 30 jumps away...that's just not fun for me. I don't think it's fun for anyone honestly.

Hope you can improve on this idea. Thanks

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Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#163 - 2012-02-10 23:09:09 UTC
One improvement might be for CCP to make systems more likely to be hosted on nodes that host neighboring systems? That would localize the issue (but might have some other very bad side effects).
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
#164 - 2012-02-10 23:15:57 UTC
I think an option on the in game map that shows what other systems are effected by the TIDI you are effected by would be a good idea. So those on the edge can jump over one system and not be effected by it.

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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#165 - 2012-02-11 08:10:16 UTC
I haven't yet gotten to try time dilation, but given my prior experience without it, I can only imagine it is one of the greatest things to hit nullsec since player-owned stations.

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Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#166 - 2012-02-11 08:56:10 UTC
last night was the longest i've been in a TiDi-ed engagement, 10% for 4 hrs straight, several crashes due to de-sync (grid's not loading), a couple of weird instances when people are not where they're supposed to be and even with time dilation some targets were off-sync (ships already died when they were still alive in overview).

but overall, it's manageable, with almost 1.9k people fighting in local it was understandable, but the client lag are still dominant, even with brackets off.

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Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
#167 - 2012-02-11 14:53:49 UTC
Sarah Schneider wrote:
last night was the longest i've been in a TiDi-ed engagement, 10% for 4 hrs straight, several crashes due to de-sync (grid's not loading), a couple of weird instances when people are not where they're supposed to be and even with time dilation some targets were off-sync (ships already died when they were still alive in overview).

but overall, it's manageable, with almost 1.9k people fighting in local it was understandable, but the client lag are still dominant, even with brackets off.

Fixes for your issues client side are on Sisi hopefully to deploy this week but most likely next week.

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Vegare
Bitslix
Lolsec Fockel
#168 - 2012-02-11 21:42:46 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:


Wrong... your point is off. Let's try again - before TiDi only fleet fights were lagged. Now innocent bystanders are getting impacted by a minority event.


Just to keep feeding the troll: nope, all systems were lagged out to the same degree as they're now being dilated to the same degree, for reasons others stated earlier. Additionally you're definition of minority is a little off.
Darth Gustav
Froosh INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#169 - 2012-02-13 18:21:53 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Vegare wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:

Not true - before the miners were not getting lagged out, just the fleet fights. Now people outside of the fleet system are getting impacted.



Unintentionally, you've just proven my point xD


Wrong... your point is off. Let's try again - before TiDi only fleet fights were lagged. Now innocent bystanders are getting impacted by a minority event.


Remember all those mysterious reboots? Remember the DB corruptions? Remember the black screens?

Before, everybody paid, but it was all-or-nothing.

All you have to do is move to a different system if you're TiDi'd unintentionally. You can still adjust market orders. You are still in the game.

Before, not so much.

Think about it.

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Welsige
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#170 - 2012-02-16 16:46:32 UTC

I had an experience with TiDi, and didnt liked what i saw.

I get the idea, and understand that it makes big battles fair looking the big picture.

But let me tell my history.

I had a 4-5 gaming window to play. After that i had family issues to attend. Hardly a fleet in eve would take more than that, because you either win or would be dead by then.

Then time dilatation kicks in, Big battle drags on and on and on..... with the server running at 10%. 1 hour passed, then the other 3h.

By the end of my gamming session, i was still there, the battle seemed that it would still drag for hours of slow motion action.

I was praying to get destroyed. I even thought about letting the enemy tackle me so I could "safelly" get out the hostile system. I ended by safing up and logging again the next day to make way home.

In short, I am warry that with TiDi I wont be able to participate anymore in fights, because some people have other bussiness to attend than spend the entire day playing what would be like 4 hours in normal game time. Tidi may have an impact on more causal players and their participation within alliance fleets.

TiDi is conceptually good, but 10% server speed should not be accepted.

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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
#171 - 2012-02-16 23:30:02 UTC
Welsige, you do realize what that battle would have been like without TiDi? I would not have been faster. With the server that loaded you would have sat there for the same time, just instead of watching a slow motion battle, you would have been watching targeting timers sit at zero for half an hour, or guns that should be firing sit there blinking at you for half an hour, or still firing while blinking red for half an hour, or perhaps just a black screen for the entire battle.

With or without TiDi an overloaded server will result in a slow battle. TiDi does not make it slower, it just makes it fair.

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highonpop
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
#172 - 2012-02-20 19:43:13 UTC
Yesterday, There was a massive mobilization of CFC forces to the Fade Region.

The Fade node was in and out of TiDi the entire time. I actually like it, even though it makes you feel like you are moving through thick mud mixed with caramel, it really does help out with the lag. I like this feature and think more time should be spent developing it further.


I also would like to see the TiDi graph from yesterday with several 100+ man fleets moving around the Fade node. There was chatter in TS that some CFC members had alerted CCP to the coming influx of pilots on the Fade node, but no one knows if it was reinforced.

FC, what do?

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#173 - 2012-02-22 03:23:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Misanth
CCP Phantom wrote:
Did you notice any difference compared to your 'normal' fleet fights? Was your EVE experience affected in some positive or negative way? Did you notice any strange or unexpected behaviour?

Let's help our brave developers and support them in the fight against the evil lag monster with good feedback!


1) EVE is not only about fleet fights you know, one of your CSM members even defended CCP when I pointed out TiDi is another blob incentitive and useless for anyone bar the <5% that sits in those lagfests. So, how is it now, you mention fleet fights and want specific feedback on that, or is TiDi a feature for everyone? Roll

2) Yah, my EVE experience has been negative in many, many ways.
- I almost lost a covert ops to unresponsive client. Had just jumped through a gate, system is empty, when suddenly a stealthbomber comes trough same gate I just went through. I've already sent command to warp off and cloak, but thanks to TiDi it still havnt' executed. I'm not able to stop and cloak either, no command work while the older commands try execute. But for some reason, this stealthbomber is allowed to approach and start lock me. Thankfully, his lock speed was delayed too and for some reason my warp command executed half a minute later.
- TiDi makes NPC's permajam, instead of having lag, or crash back to acceleration gates, you just sit there while being unable to do jack **** while they just re-apply their jam non-stop. A single scenario with ten NPC's on grid, one of which can jam, kept me permajammed for towards an hour..
- TiDi has no warning, and happens when it makes no sense. I been casually moving around, minding my own business, with systems having 0-1 people for several jumps, when suddenly - boom, my game is completely unresponsible due with TiDi going 65-90%. One would think players who deliberately stay away from blobs, blobby systems, blobby areas, wouldn't get this. And one would think that players who run 4-6 clients just fine, would get a warning instead of massive delays on all of them out of the blue? At least give us the option to log off in time..
- And since Crucible, sometimes one of my clients will randomly stop update the overview. Tabbing it down, swapping the 'hot-tab' on top, etc, has no effect, only way to solve it is to relog. I can run 4-6 clients same time and this just happens to one of them, seeminly randomly.

3) I'll be happy to give you some feedback to fight the lag monster: kill all blob incentitives you have. Remove moon mining or make it very weak, change faction warfare to actually be small scale combat over the bunkers or similar, remove all sov upgrades and spread out resources, make belt ratting more profitable then lv4/incursions, make belt mining highly sought after again, kill jumpbridges (both at POS and from Titans), spread players out. Let outposts be destructible, remove fighterbombers and give supers back their dronebay, etc. All small scale PvP buffs, and kill off all blob incentitives you keep adding. TiDi is not an improvement for this game at this current state, rather the opposite. And to not make this complete whining: one thing you have done good since the early days in EVE, is ship balancing, nos/damp fixes, missile revamps (multiple times), etc. We need highsec dwellers out in low- and null, but spread out.

Just get rid of the damn blobs, that'll be the best lag fix you could ever have done.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.

Ezekiel Sulastin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#174 - 2012-02-22 07:08:31 UTC
You heard it here first folks: warned graceful degradation is inferior to unwarned unnoticed complete failure! (I mean, seriously, haven't any of these moronic "Waahh my minr r brok" ragers ever been on the same node as a lagfest before?)
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#175 - 2012-02-23 03:58:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Ezekiel Sulastin wrote:
You heard it here first folks: warned graceful degradation is inferior to unwarned unnoticed complete failure! (I mean, seriously, haven't any of these moronic "Waahh my minr r brok" ragers ever been on the same node as a lagfest before?)

If only they had the option to just crash themselves, they'd be better off.

Tidi works nicely, I was in a rather large fight on homeland defence. We were TiDied all the way to something like 40% right as it started (all undocking at once) but then it improved to 90% and by the end of it no TiDi. Quite smooth all the way though despite us drakes spamming missiles everywhere.

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GeeShizzle MacCloud
#176 - 2012-03-03 06:25:39 UTC
ive had the fortune of being in a fair few Tidi active fights as of late, and being a vet of the old huge slugfests of old (like O2O) i can without a shadow of a doubt say that with Tidi is sooo much better. Ive also had experiences of Tidi while doing more mundane tasks and yes it can get rather frustrating. I would consider suggesting this though:

CCP to code and implement a hardwalled system for star system allocation to nodes. To expand on that i mean precisely to break high sec, low sec and null sec from ever being shared on the same server node.

Sure big fights can occur in low as easily as null much like just over a year ago on the valentines day massacre of Uemon but i think this would go a long way to shielding peoples more mundane daytime tasks from Tidi related incidents that are in no way related to their type of space.
I am also fairly certain that CCP also allocates a few servers to clear up stray systems not taken by other nodes and can in some cases create random pockets of Tidi activations when there appears to be nothing in the vicinity.

on the finer points of Tidi - most of its working well, and i know the eve community have pushed tidi to its limits already with that epic 4 hour slugfest up north, i would however say that it IS a triumph against blobs as prior to this invasion tactics became a first come, first serving killmails scenario of being in system and loading grid before the enemy. what that was, was an abuse of the shortcomings of the eve servers.
what i would say against it however is that there are some missed and fairly important strategic items that need to be affected by tidi that arent now or at least werent when id last checked. one of them being the anchoring and onlining of towers and warp disruption bubbles.
Deathwing Reborn
#177 - 2012-03-05 00:00:09 UTC
What is up with this whole TD in locations not even near a fleet fight? We do not have a fight anywhere in our region and I have 50% TD while trying to rat or mine......

This is rediculas haing 12 min strip miner cycle times.
Onictus
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
#178 - 2012-03-06 08:36:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Deathwing Reborn wrote:
What is up with this whole TD in locations not even near a fleet fight? We do not have a fight anywhere in our region and I have 50% TD while trying to rat or mine......

This is rediculas haing 12 min strip miner cycle times.



An un-reinforced node has something like 70 systems running on it, those systems are in no way geographically related. So a good fight may TiDi a system a couple regions away.

Its a bit disconcerting jumping into a system with 30% TiDi and like 8 people in local but it happens...its just dumb luck.


Edit:

Post battle in C-J6. Over 1900 in local 200 carriers and 40-60 moms on field, full fleet fights on two different grids. Yeah. I'm a fan, node was reinforced, and yeah it kinda sucked, but man, it was easier to operate than in 600 man fleet before TiDi was turned on.