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I'd more than happily have the Network Sensor array significantly changed. I do feel it's a flawed module in the scheme of things. Whilst I can understand it was added to make anti-fighter carriers viable the net result is that a carrier can often lock and heavily damage a lot of targets before they can do much about it.

Per CCP Habakuk:



If your account wasn't Omega on the 18th then it wouldn't be now, if it was then you should still post on the test server because that's an error and CCP will get around to correcting it when they can.

Also, if you'll note the first post from that thread, the sync isn't broken it's not implemented yet, it should be implemented for the next mirror.



This is largely incorrect.

• Fighters don't have very much HP but they speed tank quite well, even Cruiser sized guns struggle to apply DPS effectively to them, and Frigates will rarely hit for full damage unless the Fighters are burning straight at the target, which is user error.


• Having all of those on one ship though is fairly specialized, and ECM is far from present in every gang. Also aggressed fighters can still boost away and dock up to get out of trouble.


• A ratting Carrier is quite difficult to tank in a Cruiser, and ratting carriers tend to be fit for max DPS as opposed to PvP carrier which may have more tank and fewer DPS mods. A Carrier with support of its own and nuke a Cruiser off the field quite easily because of the burst DPS on its rocket attack.


• This only applies if the group killing your Carrier is spec'd and specialized to do so and is prioritizing your fighters. Basically this only applies when you get dropped on by a prepared group that's hunting Carriers and came equipped for the job.

Basically you seem to have taken his comments and only applied them to one very specific case, which judging by your other comments you're on the receiving end of more than anything else. His comments are still broadly fairly accurate, though the DPS has at least been toned down since the original Citadel release.

Well as far as I know this change will completely make ratting in carriers not viable anymore. I like to think I'm a pretty decent carrier pilot and have ratted a lot on my Nighoggur so I've got experience. On Tranquility I've never lost a T2 fighter to rats, but I log on to the test server to find out how the sig radius and aggression increase will affect ratting...

I lose 2 fighters the first haven, 1 fighter the second haven, and 3 the third haven I attempted...

It's near impossible to do anything about it... On almost every haven I did (except for the second one) I always had one fighter get completely one shot alpha'd the last wave of the haven. That odds and frequency will completely kill carrier ratting since one T2 fighter cost almost half as the site is worth to finish. Not to mention the down time of having to dock up and get more fighters every hour or so since you're losing so many of them...

Great job CCP... First you made carrier ratting interesting and fun... now you've decided to make it obsolete and a complete waste of time and ISK.

CCP, while you are "correcting" fighters, please adjust that a light fighter squadron consists of 9 fighters yet a single jam landing jams them all. It should take 9 successful jams to render a squadron useless, 1 jam lands, 89% effective, 2 jams, 78% effective and math the rest of the way to 0. Why are squadrons of 9 being treated as a single entity when it comes to ewar? Are their sensor strengths being added together?

I'm not against these changes, just fix their treatment as a single entity when it comes to ewar as it completely cripples their effectiveness. Yes, it should take 21-27 jams landing to render a COMBAT carrier ineffective.

Those people looking for application nerfs because "a cruiser sized drone applies guns to my cruiser sized hull, so unfair", you already had a reasonable nerf, stop tackling capital ships if they are killing you, it's like the definition of insanity.

I just realized we're seeing the usual case of CCPL duplicity.

This change accomplishes absolutely nothing in PVP:

0 damage vs Griffin before
0 damage vs Griffin after

Fighters dead to 1 web before
Fighters dead to 1 web after

You can see the pattern. No change whatsoever. A neatly engineered tweak to not affect pvp in the slightest.


The real nerf here is to make carrier ratting dead. They don't want carriers in space. They don't want carriers in sites. They don't want carriers anywhere. Your carrier is now a bad version of jump freighter.

Also, the "bugfix". I bet you hair on my toosh there was no bug - fighter aggro was there all the time, with skill and luck you could avoid losing fighters often, but bad luck would still cost you a fighter here and there. So this is not a bugfix, as there's no bug to fix. This is a nerf camouflaged as bugfix. We're witnessing the already-traditional form of CCPL damage control we've seen countless times. They even removed CCPL Fozzie from the role of announcer as he's the trademark of CCPL duplicity and would be suspected for shenanigans right away.

All this was to avoid making every carrier ratter mad. People that invested in the game, in the capital skills, in injectors, in capital faction modules, wasted $30 of subscription money to train Fighters V, etc. To cowardly avoid telling them to the face that none of them are welcome anymore. To avoid telling them CCPL has decided to run off with their money.

Well here we have it boys. Apparently, carrier content was not worth carrier faucet. So now both are being cowardly purged, sticking knife in the back of both carrier ratters and carrier hunters (no carrier ratting - no carrier hunting). We could've seen another tuning of faucet like we see rorqual being tuned once again (though rorqual was another form of honeytrap to make people invest in them and expect that they stick to them and still be targets since they're now invested).

I find it yet another proof that eve is dying. Nobody would resort to this degree of customerfucking and straight-face lies if he intends to keep them customers paying. This also sheds some light on rorqual nerf - the giant mineral sink that was carrier and supercarrier building for pve needs is getting purged, so need to balance the freed up minerals into shape or the market would drop drastically and insurance scams will faucet what ratting carriers didn't. And even the bubble removal meganerf is now seen in the new light as well, an attempt to create a tremendous mineral and manhours sink for essential layer of protection to counteract complete stopping of carrier production.

Basically, after completing NERF HISEC campaign, the next turn is NERF NULLSEC FOR THE SMALL GUY. Welcome to YC119, #nopoors, only titan ratting is allowed (until HAW nerf because it "applies too well to MWDing cruiser") with a hand on batphone, but hey, at least CSM is happy - now that nobody is ratting they can whelp inty roams to each other's ratting titans and keep their RMT farm going with people who want to join the titan ratting club. Just remember, you cannot sell supers outside "coalition", and "coalition" is buying for 40bil and selling for 200bil, provided you agree to be the part of the mandatory batphone, otherwise you're a renter, your fee is 10bil per month, and your position is occasionally reported to the neighboring NIP coalition to laugh at your tears while blaming you for not joining the compulsory batphone service and not kissing a ring twice a day. Exciting future for everyone who thought CSM is there for anything other than their own mortgage.

/tinfoil hat

Please cease with the personal attacks. Thanks.

As to your points...

1. Yup, that's how it works. I think I see the problem here now though. The problem is your assumption that your solo Carrier should be able to take on an entire fleet by itself and come out on top. That has never been the intent for these ships, and it would be bad for the game if they worked like that.


2. See above. If you want your carrier to take on a fleet bring a support fleet of your own and have them deal with the Blackbird. If you want a ROFL solo-pwn mobile go play some other game. Caps need support to be effective, this is intentional and good for the game.


3. You do not, in fact, *have* to move them back to you in a straight line, though yes it certainly does make them easier to hit generally. Less the case if you're in the middle of the fight though.


4. Um.... no? An all-5s Thanny can fit 9 full flights of Fighters, that's enough for two full different damage types plus three squads of support fighters if you feel the need for whatever reason, same for the Nidhoggur. The Archon can only fit 8, and the chimera can only fit 7. With 4s only the Nidhoggur loses enough space to lose a full flight, but in all cases you can fit at least 2 full launches of Fighters with level 4 skills.

1. HA, Wow you're ignorant of how EVE works. "But muhh 4b carrier should kill everything!!!111". And you want to go around calling people dumb.. and making personal attacks. All the while hiding behind an alt. Lemme guess, your main has carrier losses that go along with your cry baby fest agenda and attacking anyone who doesn't agree with your whining? Can't find any KB records on the character you're posting from. So either, its an alt to hide your main, so you make personal attacks and play an agenda that no one can look information up on, or you are actually a clueless null bear who's just crying cause his isk ticks are going to get hurt by this.

Let me tell you about a ship, its a big a ship with big guns, used to roam space in relative freedom, then everything started getting faster, buffed and smaller ships got lots of the same abilities. Smaller ships were able to get under this larger, much more expensive ships guns and completely disable it. A well equipped gang could incapacitate this ship and take very little damage in return. The ship cost 200x as much as the much smaller ships that could make it a glorified paper weight.

What ship might that be you ask? The battleship, which outside of pirate battleships has fallen into obscurity due to carrier proliferation, HICs, HAW dreads and swarms of small ships.

So your whole idea that your 4B isk carrier should kill an entire gang just because its bigger and costs more is wrong on every level. It is right, it is how EVE is balanced, HTFU.

4. I'd bet you you're just pulling numbers out of your ass to fit your agenda. I am certain most pilots in long standing null blobs who sit in Super's or enjoy tossing around cap's have their favorites capital's to 5. I'm at this moment training Cal dread to 5. Not to mention all the nullbears who want maximum ticks with nothing else to train, i'm sure plenty of them have capital's to 5.

Oh man and you're calling me the High Sec player... rule one of Null, assume bubbles. Even if you didn't bring them someone probably brought a Dictor or a HIC to the party, especially with Carriers on field, so perches are right out. That basically only works in Low and High Sec because in Null good pilots and groups use bubbles for range control, and if you so much as warp towards a bubble you get sucked into it. This only works if you have bookmarks setup well in advance, not if you're dropping someone offensively. This honestly sounds like something you read somewhere, not something you've ever actually tried to implement, and certainly not in a smaller gang drop.

Yup, Fighters do have a lock time, and even if you lock them as fast as physically possible in a stock Griffin and *even with the sig changes* they still get to shoot you once because they get a free tick of lock time before you can try to lock them and their scan res is 800, which means they lock you a tick after you lock them. Throw in the fact that you can't easily jam all three squads in the same tick and you're probably gonna die without logi help.

And yes, Logi will generally not prioritize ECM broadcasts, which makes it even easier to remove them from grid with a competent support fleet.

The idea that webs are on grid and your fighters just die is just... what? Never mind lock times in a big fight someone still has to prioritize your Fighters over other targets, which means those other targets get to play, and this just more or less stops working well with more than 1 or 2 Carriers on grid, never mind a Fleet Fight. At that point it's just Smart Bombs all the way and no one even bothers trying to actually lock fighters except maybe other Carriers with a superiority setup.

As for dreads, nope I'm saying in a small fight you should be up close, in a large one be positioned wherever is good because no one is gonna be locking and popping Fighters individually. Now stop moving the goal posts around by talking about one fight scenario and then jumping as soon as your argument gets refuted for that scenario.

Your measurements are still bad. Those numbers were raw hanger, nothing stored in tubes, and the Chimera only needs Fighter Hangar Management to 3 to fit 7 full squadrons of Light Fighters, which is slightly more than a 1 day train from 0. This also says you're cherry picking rather than actually trying to present accurate information.

At this point you just sound ineffectually mad and you're doing a terrible job of putting together a coherent argument here.