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[March] Balance Tweaks: Fighters, Supercarriers & Burst Projectors

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Jonatan Reed
Wildcard.
Boundary Experts
#121 - 2017-02-24 17:42:45 UTC
Change Shadows to LR.

I'm okay with sig radius change, but sensor strength should be buffed at least a bit, give and take.

I like the burst projector buff.

I'm okay with hel and wyvern getting a buff to hangar space, maybe less okay with hel.

Not bad changes overall. Carrier blobs are oppressive as **** but making fighters totally useless in pvp isn't the solution either.

ELITE PVP, WHADDUP
Blodi deVriis
Sisters of Steel
Moist.
#122 - 2017-02-24 17:58:55 UTC
CCP, You make carriers useless in WH space. Fighters are already dying like flies, especially because they are even dumber than drones. And the fighter UI is also as bad as it can be.

I cannot tell you, how angry you make me. Especially because at the same time you nerf again Excavator drones.

Large scale industrial operations. On demand, on time, on budget. Selling: T2, T3 ships and their respective blueprints. Buying: minerals, salvage, datacores.
Brain Gehirn
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#123 - 2017-02-24 18:45:56 UTC
Can you please consider buffing projectors a bit more?
The reactivation timer is huge for such a small benefit. We rarely used then more than one time in a kinda long fight (IF we do use then at all).
Titus Fletcher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2017-02-24 19:23:50 UTC
This is depressing... look CCP, look at your player base. The VAST majority of us are not in favor of these shenanigans. There are so many ships in the game that you have nerfed to the point that players avoid them like the plague. Now you're going to remove a huge means of isk income. If I am not making isk, I am not out losing ships in fights.

It seems to me (and apparently 90% of the thread) that this 'tweak' is in good intentions but a poorly executed target. These ships are supposed to be dangerous! They are worth 4 times that of a blinged-out BS! Therefore, their ability should reflect that kind of isk and skill-time investment. The only people complaining about carriers being 'OP' are the people who look at carriers and think about a huge juicy KM ripe for the picking... aren't capitals supposed to scare people in cruiser and below? As it is, when I take out a carrier, I am dreading a single nuet jumping in system. A gang of ships worth 1/6 the cost of my ships can already bend me over and have their way with me. Every cap pilot I have ever spoken to has stressed the importance of alining and running THE SECOND a nuet or red jump into system... what is the incentive to climbing the ranks to get into a cap if a team of interceptors can actually contemplate taking on and successfully killing a carrier? It's only means of attack are now as usless (even more so now) as an attack frig in nullsec...

You want feedback? A 5 mill griffin can be a valuable asset in carrier killing and fozie sov, seemingly more valuable than a single, city sized, capital ship. Don't go through with this... please... it's already difficult to keep a player base around with the carrot of 35-50mil ticks after a 1-2 year membership. (Yes yes skill injectors... but I earned mine the hard way.) I feel like dedicated pilots should have a good reason to stick around; work their way up into a capital and have some power. At least enough power to scare off a 6 man nano gang and a kit/grif or two.

Hats off CCP. It can't be easy hearing so many opinions, but there is a reason it takes 1+ years of skill cue to get into a capital. Please don't neuter the carriers any more than the carrier update. If you decide to do it, regardless of what most of us are saying, please consider buffing their EHP and sensor strength accordingly.


Thanks Devs,
-T
Krieg Austern
#125 - 2017-02-24 20:43:12 UTC
I've been playing EVE a relatively short time compared to others, but this all smells like wanting to get "more action, more instant thrill" into the game. EVE is famous for it's skill queue grind, for the time taken to fly bigger ships - that's what made it unique. For those into the setting, flying a carrier should be something you WANT to grind for. I know I did.

Nerfs like this just seem like a way to let Alphas blow up big shiny ships, so they can see how "cool" EVE is, with big explosions and guns and ships and stuff. This is not COD, please don't attract that sort of crowd.
Krieg Austern
#126 - 2017-02-24 20:46:46 UTC
Jonatan Reed wrote:

Not bad changes overall. Carrier blobs are oppressive as **** but making fighters totally useless in pvp isn't the solution either.


The problem with that is, if carrier blobs are OP, you shouldn't just nerf the hell out of the ship class to the point where they are pointless to solo pilots. Address carrier fleets specifically, rather than just penalising everyone who flies a carrier.
Majuan Shuo
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#127 - 2017-02-24 22:22:47 UTC
Yeah, so fighters are already dying plenty to NPCs - what is this guy on about?Ugh

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Gadzooki
Doomheim
#128 - 2017-02-25 00:07:51 UTC
Proof CCP doesnt play thier own game....maybe they will have better luck breaking in to the Call of Duty market with thier awesome shooter....oh...ya...nvm
Lugh Crow-Slave
#129 - 2017-02-25 03:24:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Krieg Austern wrote:
[
The problem with that is, if carrier blobs are OP, you shouldn't just nerf the hell out of the ship class to the point where they are pointless to solo pilots. Address carrier fleets specifically, rather than just penalising everyone who flies a carrier.


well.... no a capital ship should not be viable to a solo pilot. they are not solo ships capitals should always require a fleet



only thing i'm worried about with this is how the chimera and archon already have meh to **** poor dps and so little fighter bay this is going to push things even more into just using nid/thanny

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Juvir
Omega Nebula BattleWorks
#130 - 2017-02-25 03:33:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Juvir
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Krieg Austern wrote:
[
The problem with that is, if carrier blobs are OP, you shouldn't just nerf the hell out of the ship class to the point where they are pointless to solo pilots. Address carrier fleets specifically, rather than just penalising everyone who flies a carrier.


well.... no a capital ship should not be viable to a solo pilot. they are not solo ships capitals should always require a fleet



only thing i'm worried about with this is how the chimera and archon already have meh to **** poor dps and so little fighter bay this is going to push things even more into just using nid/thanny


It's also a capital ship though, it should never be useless to a solo pilot. The amount of time and isk required is indicative that the pilot has the knowledge to know not to drop it on a fleet of 40 battleships (in theory). However, if a gang of 4 cruisers down comes after my carrier while moving it, or ratting, I should be able to fend them off easily. This is going to make defanging my carrier quick, and then they just papercut me to death until support can arrive. I should be able to fend off 4 ships and make an escape before backup arrives.

You're right about the difference in carriers this is going to create too. The Archon already isn't really used anymore, the Chimera very little. If the fighters get these nerfs, nobody will undock either, it wouldn't make sense to.
Kagi Anzomi
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#131 - 2017-02-25 04:21:31 UTC
The Archon and Chimera problem is that their fighter bays are too small and fighters die far too easily for their tank bonus to matter. In any battle where you actually need their tank, they're already useless because their fighters will be wiped out long before a Thanatos or Nidhoggur would be in danger.
Dip PotatoChip
Bag ol' Dciks
#132 - 2017-02-25 07:08:18 UTC
Don't touch fighters please :( the new Chimera model is so cool
TeflonMag Usoko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#133 - 2017-02-25 09:28:39 UTC  |  Edited by: TeflonMag Usoko
Well, i smell a money making scam somewhere.

Someone is preparing to bail out and sell its platform along with the player base.

When you are not interrested in expanding content and make your product attractive to new players in a 2017 way means you are retiring.

Milking the last cents out of existing paying customers, exploiting the time and effort they already invested.

I wont fall for this. I worked moths to build tens billions worth of assets just to see their value reduced to 50%-25%

I resubbed with cash for a few accounts days before this announcement.

After expiry, i will take a break. Every good thing has to end. Thats life. EVE is not an exception.

We live to create good memories.

RIP
Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#134 - 2017-02-25 09:30:23 UTC
TeflonMag Usoko wrote:
Well, i smell a money making scam somewhere.

Someone is preparing to bail out and sell its platform along with the player base.

When you are not interrested in expanding content and make your product attractive to new players in a 2017 way means you are retiring.

Milking the last cents out of existing paying customers, exploiting the time and effort they already invested.

I wont fall for this. I worked moths to build tens billions worth of assets just to see their value reduced to 50%-25%

I resubbed with cash for a few accounts days before this announcement.

After expiry, i will take a break. Every good thing has to end. Thats life. EVE is not an exception.

We live to create good memories.

RIP


Feel free to give me your stuff.
TeflonMag Usoko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#135 - 2017-02-25 10:36:19 UTC  |  Edited by: TeflonMag Usoko
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
TeflonMag Usoko wrote:
Well, i smell a money making scam somewhere.

Someone is preparing to bail out and sell its platform along with the player base.

When you are not interrested in expanding content and make your product attractive to new players in a 2017 way means you are retiring.

Milking the last cents out of existing paying customers, exploiting the time and effort they already invested.

I wont fall for this. I worked moths to build tens billions worth of assets just to see their value reduced to 50%-25%

I resubbed with cash for a few accounts days before this announcement.

After expiry, i will take a break. Every good thing has to end. Thats life. EVE is not an exception.

We live to create good memories.

RIP


Feel free to give me your stuff.


Yeah, like you got anything for free, ever :))

To keep it on the topic: guess CCP is happy to see us raging .. thats their business goal. Seems to me investments in game/gametime should slow down to minimal due to impredictability of the game environment.

What is lost is lost. Only thing to be done is mitigate loss to an acceptable level. This can be easily done by playing with what i have and not get into new projects like Titans or 3 accounts rorq mining or any other multi-billion investment.

I love to engage in developing new business lines and sometime i watch them fail. Never because i was cheated on by the vendor that sold me an application and two months after, at update, half functions are gone because EULA :)))

In the industry, a company that does this, suffer consequences that lead to income shortening. Customers deciding to spend less because trust degradation are more dangerous than mitigating inflation and surplus in a sandbox.

I dont see how on earth you cannot find new exciting things to build to spend all that mineral excess... lol what a joke

I have systems that can manage billions events per second cheap and reliable. Why CCP gets stuck in a traditional approach and keeps the TIDI system up is a mistery for me.
kosmomicu Life
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#136 - 2017-02-25 12:26:14 UTC
Hello I'm really playing eve on full time for a while now, short one and already as a noob player I ve spotted so many bugs, instead of messing the game please fix your bugs, also look out there how other games improved lot more, make the game better not worse please : ) all what u do is just nerf everything and silent nerf other, REPAIR YOUR GAME FIRST AFTER U CAN TAKE ACTIONS AGAINST SOME OF THE FEATURES, what about fighters that land at 3000 km distance ? What about when the sites are getting buggy and in 1 sec u lost 3 fighters ? What about when your ship is stuck near the gate in warp and u have to relog 5 times to try your luck? And ..............one week later can continuue this...
Fifth Blade
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
#137 - 2017-02-25 14:23:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Fifth Blade
Miyamoto Uroki wrote:
Excellent change for the signature changes for fighters. Now if you could make them a little less opressive in terms of applying dps to mwding cruisers? that would bring them back into balance imho
Honestly it's the extremes which are the problem.

They need to be significantly less oppressive to mwd cruisers (bc/bs are obviously in a worse spot still), and more oppressive to 100mn ab cruisers. Otherwise we'll be flying them until the end of time, as the only viable option. Very boring. No diversity at all.

an example depending on which prop mod i use on my cruiser:
I can choose to either be 1-2 shot (mwd) or
I can choose to infinitely tank 3 squadrons (actually more) with no problem at all.

They should not counter, nor be countered so absolutely.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#138 - 2017-02-25 16:19:59 UTC
Dip PotatoChip wrote:
Don't touch fighters please :( the new Chimera model is so cool


it's ****

the took a powerful sturdy looking ship and made it look fragile and awkward

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Fynite Hita
Doomheim
#139 - 2017-02-25 17:36:28 UTC
MMMmm, I have to say I personally do not use carriers for ratting but I have done so in the past, where you get this idea that fighters are not targetted is a bit of a joke and I think you are full of it to be honest.
I have seen 3-4 fighters get nuked when triggering a new wave of NPC in a site simply during the cool down on them from the last ship they shot.

When i used to run 10/10 sites for blood raiders i would try to use heavy drones in the second stage to kill the frigates that spawned, but it dawned on me pretty quick just how easy they die, before you can even get your drones in range to start damaging the NPC in question you can lose 2 heavy drone, making them useless.
And now you want to do it too fighters, WOW

The Fact that the Rorq is taking a hit as well would seem to suggest you are now focusing on nerfing the ability for null sec alliances to make Huge profits( You have already stated the amount of Isk made in null is seriously ridiculous) and I think this is a way you have found to change it without making it blindly obvious.

People invest a lot of time effort and money too get these ships (yes we have skill injectors now) but most older players would of put months in to getting in to them ships and you have effectively made them hugely vulnerable to some of the smallest ships in the game that can be operated by an alpha clone.

This change is clearly aimed at reducing the amount of Isk for null alliances and feeding the new player base (alpha clones) the easy ability to get right in there and **** over some of the biggest ships in eve. You know the ones that are the symbol of the mighty empires, Are now a bit of a joke

The same as these so called Events like the new gala sites ( clearly aimed at alphas and some of the most uninteresting content ever) for older players.
Matschpirat Tsero
Hammerwerke
#140 - 2017-02-25 19:19:41 UTC
Wow theses changes


Now you cant use carriers in c5 sleepers sites at all because youur fighters are getting instakilled by everything! Dunno why you would have to change the aggro mechaniks....