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[March] Balance Tweaks: Fighters, Supercarriers & Burst Projectors

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#101 - 2017-02-24 13:46:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Pesadel0 wrote:
So basically you nerf the figthers in sig and in agroo but dont give even a bit of HP or something?


That's a big issue.

Does any one know, do the the Drone Durability Enhancer rigs affect fighters? I know the description says so but thats from back before the fighter changes.

If it does I might have a use for some of those "uselss" capital BPCs I've aqquired over the years Cool
Juvir
Omega Nebula BattleWorks
#102 - 2017-02-24 13:48:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Juvir
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Destriouth Hollow wrote:
This makes me laugh ^^

I've done some carrier ratting and the following statement is true:

If you are carrier pveing and your fighters target dies, you have less then 5 seconds. if you dont attk the next target in these 5 seconds the first fighter is gone.

Also webbing npcs make your fighters die fairly quickly already.

Does that REALLY need a nerf? just lol ^^

Fighter squads are really expensive. Most ppl i know dont even use t2 fighters for pve because they are really risky to use.

Just lol....

If you want battleships to hit fighters, at least seriously buff their hp pls...

lol



As pve balance issue really isn't a concern when up against how it's balanced pvp and it was kinda dumb that they were harder to hit than heavies


They're also piloted by people, rather than being computer controlled. Being harder to hit makes more sense in that aspect. Which is why I personally have always questioned how they sit still and do NOTHING without a command, since they are supposed to be piloted by a sentient being. Are people dumber than computers in Eve?

While I don't think they need an auto aggress feature like drones have (I honestly LIKE the active management required while ratting in a carrier, vs afk VNI ratting) why don't they orbit a nearby celestial? Or auto return? Or orbit themselves in a small pattern? These are people, why in the world would they sit absolutely still for that long, seeing how much fire they are under?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#103 - 2017-02-24 13:57:51 UTC
Juvir wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Destriouth Hollow wrote:
This makes me laugh ^^

I've done some carrier ratting and the following statement is true:

If you are carrier pveing and your fighters target dies, you have less then 5 seconds. if you dont attk the next target in these 5 seconds the first fighter is gone.

Also webbing npcs make your fighters die fairly quickly already.

Does that REALLY need a nerf? just lol ^^

Fighter squads are really expensive. Most ppl i know dont even use t2 fighters for pve because they are really risky to use.

Just lol....

If you want battleships to hit fighters, at least seriously buff their hp pls...

lol



As pve balance issue really isn't a concern when up against how it's balanced pvp and it was kinda dumb that they were harder to hit than heavies


They're also piloted by people, rather than being computer controlled. Being harder to hit makes more sense in that aspect. Which is why I personally have always questioned how they sit still and do NOTHING without a command, since they are supposed to be piloted by a sentient being. Are people dumber than computers in Eve?

While I don't think they need an auto aggress feature like drones have (I honestly LIKE the active management required while ratting in a carrier, vs afk VNI ratting) why don't they orbit a nearby celestial? Or auto return? Or orbit themselves in a small pattern? These are people, why in the world would they sit absolutely still for that long, seeing how much fire they are under?



Don't start thinking of lore or realism when it comes to balance you'll hurt yourself.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#104 - 2017-02-24 13:58:39 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Pesadel0 wrote:
So basically you nerf the figthers in sig and in agroo but dont give even a bit of HP or something?


That's a big issue.

Does any one know, do the the Drone Durability Enhancer rigs affect fighters? I know the description says so but thats from back before the fighter changes.

If it does I might have a use for some of those "uselss" capital BPCs I've aqquired over the years Cool


It does

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#105 - 2017-02-24 14:09:06 UTC
Juvir wrote:
While I don't think they need an auto aggress feature like drones have (I honestly LIKE the active management required while ratting in a carrier, vs afk VNI ratting) why don't they orbit a nearby celestial? Or auto return? Or orbit themselves in a small pattern? These are people, why in the world would they sit absolutely still for that long, seeing how much fire they are under?


Some sort of orbiting themselves would be great to have. Watching fighters immediately stop and sit stationary after every kill is frustrating enough in PvE, let alone PvP...
Sieve Boy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#106 - 2017-02-24 14:09:12 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Sieve Boy wrote:
Carriers are already a pathetic joke in wormhole space already, they get used to roll holes and that is it. The sleepers tear the fighters apart just fine and any pvp carrier gets defanged because it's hilariously easy.

Not sure what game you're playing or stats you are watching Larrikan, cause I make fighters in hi sec and they sell pretty quickly, people lose them so much. Except for support fighters. It's sirens or forget it.

Instead of making something already in a bad place worse, how about you address the problem of DSTs full of booster 3200 parked next to cap injector faxes in WH space? Something that requires a stupid number of Bhaalghorns to neut out.



If they are selling that well it means they are getting used that well...



But yeah they are a joke and it has nothing to do with killing them in pvp they are stupid easy to jam and yeah I wish I knew why they made support fighters so ****


They sell quite well because they die. A lot.
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#107 - 2017-02-24 14:25:16 UTC
Eris Tsasa wrote:
I just have to ask. Really? Fighters are already incredibly easy to web and melt. They're so squishy, at least give them an ehp buff, a single web when they're out of scoop range of your carrier means if they manage to return, you'll have lost half. A single npc frigate can easily chew through them.

Also, burst projectors. Please, reduce cycle time. Already at max skills it's 6 minutes of cycle, the entire time with a weapons timer, then another minute for timer to cycle away. During that time can't refit, de-agress, ect. Also the 10s warmup beacon telling people where it'll land and tiny sphere of influence make them pretty useless. Please, make a few more changes.



True that, if you gona boost signature the EHP should be boosted like 10x fold to make it remotly ok in the curren enviroment and lack of rr on carriers/super to rep the drones. They are paper thin right now and melted in a instant. now you have 100 mil!!!!! Squadron of drones that single t1 cruiser will kill in no time just WeW LaD.
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#108 - 2017-02-24 14:34:17 UTC
Sieve Boy wrote:
Carriers are already a pathetic joke in wormhole space already, they get used to roll holes and that is it. The sleepers tear the fighters apart just fine and any pvp carrier gets defanged because it's hilariously easy.

Not sure what game you're playing or stats you are watching Larrikan, cause I make fighters in hi sec and they sell pretty quickly, people lose them so much. Except for support fighters. It's sirens or forget it.
.



+1 I do not see a reason for drones/Fighter getting agro from NPC's. way won't they just tracking distrupt them / jam etc. like they do your ship. You can't kill off Guns on a ship so way would they pop your 100 mil drone squadron.

Carriers were able to kill tackle Pre Fighter change EZ, now carrier is not able to kill a single interceptor. It is very easy to kill fighters in any fleet vs fleet fight. Insted of Nerfing them you should boost the EHP by a LOT! and fix the buggy UI. ADD CONTROL GROUP to make micromanagment less of a nightmare .....


Insted of all that you are making the whole ship class obselite, for whom and way? for couple risk averse dudes that can't bring single web/TP to a kill a carrier thay are ganging? ..... IDK what is happening here ....
Lugh Crow-Slave
#109 - 2017-02-24 14:41:18 UTC
Sieve Boy wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Sieve Boy wrote:
Carriers are already a pathetic joke in wormhole space already, they get used to roll holes and that is it. The sleepers tear the fighters apart just fine and any pvp carrier gets defanged because it's hilariously easy.

Not sure what game you're playing or stats you are watching Larrikan, cause I make fighters in hi sec and they sell pretty quickly, people lose them so much. Except for support fighters. It's sirens or forget it.

Instead of making something already in a bad place worse, how about you address the problem of DSTs full of booster 3200 parked next to cap injector faxes in WH space? Something that requires a stupid number of Bhaalghorns to neut out.



If they are selling that well it means they are getting used that well...



But yeah they are a joke and it has nothing to do with killing them in pvp they are stupid easy to jam and yeah I wish I knew why they made support fighters so ****


They sell quite well because they die. A lot.


Can't die if they are not being used and they won't sell if ppl don't see value in buying them

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Krieg Austern
#110 - 2017-02-24 14:43:17 UTC
I only just started with carriers - but looking at these changes, that was a waste of training and ISK, may as well continue using my Ishtar instead and mothball it.

Looking at this change, as well as the Rorqual changes - is it your intention to make Capital ships just a bigger loon pinata? Seriously, how does a single T1 ECM hull or something as tiny as an interceptor completely negate a multi thousand metre ship? I can understand a gang of ships being able to wear a carrier down, but now there will be zero defence even against a small group? Why are drones smarter than fighters, at least you can trust them (most of the time) to get on with their own stuff if you are prioritising targets.
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#111 - 2017-02-24 14:48:23 UTC
Krieg Austern wrote:
I only just started with carriers - but looking at these changes, that was a waste of training and ISK, may as well continue using my Ishtar instead and mothball it.

Looking at this change, as well as the Rorqual changes - is it your intention to make Capital ships just a bigger loon pinata? Seriously, how does a single T1 ECM hull or something as tiny as an interceptor completely negate a multi thousand metre ship? I can understand a gang of ships being able to wear a carrier down, but now there will be zero defence even against a small group? Why are drones smarter than fighters, at least you can trust them (most of the time) to get on with their own stuff if you are prioritising targets.


I feel exactly that same - I planed to do some Carrier stuff with Fighters, but I heard they are easy to be killed;
So I waited for any buff for it than throwing by window about few mil for a single fighter (when u need at last 27 of them);

Now I see that my carrier is nothing else just an logistic ship (for moving out stuff etc);
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
#112 - 2017-02-24 15:06:10 UTC
CCP HARD AT WORK FINALLY!

All your recent changes really seem geared toward content and they all look great.

Increasing the sig size of the fighters makes hitting them with medium weapon systems a lot easier, and since we have an incoming RLML nerf this seems wise.

Also adds some risk to null ratting, which is great.

Everything is great. Looking forward to some balancing on the regular combat ships whenever that happens. Mixed with weapon system tiericide, weve got an exciting few months ahead of us.
Uther Moldune
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#113 - 2017-02-24 15:13:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Uther Moldune
Fighters were already getting aggro. I often have fighters getting chewed up by Rats and that is with 100% attention. This change would push people away from carrier ratting which in turn would reduce content.

The Thanatos and Nyx were already considered the best Carrier/Super and this also widens that gap.
Sieve Boy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#114 - 2017-02-24 15:14:47 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Sieve Boy wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Sieve Boy wrote:
Carriers are already a pathetic joke in wormhole space already, they get used to roll holes and that is it. The sleepers tear the fighters apart just fine and any pvp carrier gets defanged because it's hilariously easy.

Not sure what game you're playing or stats you are watching Larrikan, cause I make fighters in hi sec and they sell pretty quickly, people lose them so much. Except for support fighters. It's sirens or forget it.

Instead of making something already in a bad place worse, how about you address the problem of DSTs full of booster 3200 parked next to cap injector faxes in WH space? Something that requires a stupid number of Bhaalghorns to neut out.



If they are selling that well it means they are getting used that well...



But yeah they are a joke and it has nothing to do with killing them in pvp they are stupid easy to jam and yeah I wish I knew why they made support fighters so ****


They sell quite well because they die. A lot.


Can't die if they are not being used and they won't sell if ppl don't see value in buying them


Carriers ending up in the same place as assault frigates would be horrible.
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#115 - 2017-02-24 15:35:12 UTC
give them a bit more base sensor strength plz

especially dps heavy fighters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#116 - 2017-02-24 16:54:10 UTC
Capqu wrote:
give them a bit more base sensor strength plz

especially dps heavy fighters



I could aggree with that being a suitable change for Heavy fighters, but since light fighters apply damag more accurately to smaller craft..... I would have to disagree since its their only real defensive hole for roaming squads.

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.
wouroo
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#117 - 2017-02-24 16:54:47 UTC
the salt in this thread is enough to populate all of new edens ice belts for year, wow. seeing the community feedback though, I'd agree that it would be good to lower the build cost of fighters to compensate for them getting killed all the time. that seems like a reasonable bone to toss to everyone.
Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#118 - 2017-02-24 16:57:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Zockhandra
wouroo wrote:
the salt in this thread is enough to populate all of new edens ice belts for year, wow. seeing the community feedback though, I'd agree that it would be good to lower the build cost of fighters to compensate for them getting killed all the time. that seems like a reasonable bone to toss to everyone.


Why? now that rorq's are being used again the EVE mineral economy is in a fairly good place, why cut production costs when they are being supported by the new influx of materials. If they became cheaper you'd have the potential of never running out of fighters (in a respective region), which would render all other drones boats to dis-favour when carriers and good fighter supplies are available.

Ironically examples of this area are allready visible with such a high level of usage of these carriers, so many people camp their bubbled null gates with said ships now, because they are difficult to fight and can afford to loose the fighters and/or the hull.

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.
Alhira Katserna
Deep Space Exploration And Exploitation
#119 - 2017-02-24 17:07:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Alhira Katserna
Zockhandra wrote:
wouroo wrote:
the salt in this thread is enough to populate all of new edens ice belts for year, wow. seeing the community feedback though, I'd agree that it would be good to lower the build cost of fighters to compensate for them getting killed all the time. that seems like a reasonable bone to toss to everyone.


Why? now that rorq's are being used again the EVE mineral economy is in a fairly good place, why cut production costs when they are being supported by the new influx of materials. If they became cheaper you'd have the potential of never running out of fighters (in a respective region), which would render all other drones boats to dis-favour when carriers and good fighter supplies are available.

Ironically examples of this area are allready visible with such a high level of usage of these carriers, so many people camp their bubbled null gates with said ships now, because they are difficult to fight and can afford to loose the fighters and/or the hull.



The Rorqual is once again getting nerfed because the mineral market rn is apparently not in a good shape. Cheaper stuff so ships explode more often is apparently bad for the game... Maybe it would be smarter to have another look at Ore compositions instead of nerf so this stuff can get brought in line.

Also regarding carrier: Why does everything in EvE have to be centred about nano roaming gangs? Now we can´t HIC scram them anymore, the little chance you had before to rip them apart with a carrier is also gone now that fighters are easier to hit then a 40t truck with a snowball.

Just waiting on a nerfbat for recons...
Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#120 - 2017-02-24 17:14:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Zockhandra
The Rorqual is once again getting nerfed because the mineral market rn is apparently not in a good shape. Cheaper stuff so ships explode more often is apparently bad for the game... Maybe it would be smarter to have another look at Ore compositions instead of nerf so this stuff can get brought in line.

Also regarding carrier: Why does everything in EvE have to be centred about nano roaming gangs? Now we can´t HIC scram them anymore, the little chance you had before to rip them apart with a carrier is also gone now that fighters are easier to hit then a 40t truck with a snowball.

Just waiting on a nerfbat for recons...[/quote]


But thats not entirely accurate, Carriers are still capable of applying damage to smaller ships and destroy them.
Regarding the type of gang discussed, nano gangs are generally preferred because they can avoid 'most' larger blobs.
Armour assets tend to get locked down and destroyed fairly quickly. Sadly both types of fleet fall prey to fighters because of:
A: their insane velocity and ability to catch interceptors
B: their huge alpha damage delivery which is pin-point accurate
C: even small fast ships that can hold point on carriers simply dont have the range/dps to hold point before fighters are manually piloted into their paths to destroy them


*RECEEDED* (just noticed the new script changes) Also the last time i checked, HICs can still use forcused warp scrambles up to 38KM. There are not many fleet comps that will actively try to fight that with a carrier on field anyway.

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.