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[March] Balance Tweaks: Fighters, Supercarriers & Burst Projectors

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Demolishar
United Aggression
#61 - 2017-02-23 23:44:35 UTC
While we're at it, can we somehow change the sensor strength / sig radius of supercaps so that they're not so difficult to scan down compared to normal caps? It doesn't make a lot of sense really the way it is right now.
Blood Animus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2017-02-23 23:49:46 UTC
Juvir wrote:
If you think a group of 20 battleships getting wasted by a single carrier is not supposed to be right, you obviously haven't flown caps since the BoB days. No they shouldn't have impunity, but they should be able to rat. And whoever is getting 100m ticks is exploiting somewhere. Average tick in a carrier is ~50m. Try it sometime before you talk about it?


Pretty sure the top end of a completely faction and DED fit hyperspatial ratting carrier is going to be about 90m at the bleeding edge of efficiency, but it's going to be worth an easy 5-6B and have little in the way of tank and rely mostly on blapping everything as quick as possible. Seems pretty balanced to me as to how valuable it is and how much time you'd need to invest in the skills and micromanaging the fighters.
Juvir
Omega Nebula BattleWorks
#63 - 2017-02-23 23:53:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Juvir
Blood Animus wrote:
Juvir wrote:
If you think a group of 20 battleships getting wasted by a single carrier is not supposed to be right, you obviously haven't flown caps since the BoB days. No they shouldn't have impunity, but they should be able to rat. And whoever is getting 100m ticks is exploiting somewhere. Average tick in a carrier is ~50m. Try it sometime before you talk about it?


Pretty sure the top end of a completely faction and DED fit hyperspatial ratting carrier is going to be about 90m at the bleeding edge of efficiency, but it's going to be worth an easy 5-6B and have little in the way of tank and rely mostly on blapping everything as quick as possible. Seems pretty balanced to me as to how valuable it is and how much time you'd need to invest in the skills and micromanaging the fighters.


And it comes down to risk/vs reward at that point too, which is pretty balanced as it stands right now. Increasing the loss of fighters is going to nullify that risk/reward factor to 0. Those 5-6b fits are using T2 fighters that, when you lose a squadron or two of them a site, adds up in cost quickly. I just don't understand where their data comes from thinking fighters aren't already getting easily killed, or targeted enough by NPCs.
Sub Starasque
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2017-02-23 23:58:01 UTC
I'm not a fan of this change to fighters at all. They already get chewed up pretty fast by anything that is supposed to actually harm them, not even mentioning how ecm renders them useless (which can be done by a 2 mil Griffin). It doesn't exactly help that T2 FSUs are actually garbage considering how little of an upgrade they are over T1 *before* stacking penalties.

Also, fighters get wrecked in PvE if any frigates are present, and at the same time they apply quite poorly to the same frigates that are chewing them up. I don't think they necessarily needed any more help dying in anoms and the like.

Notice how all of the people "liking" this change are the TURN LEFT and other assorted picogang whatever dudes. Your kitey gang of 4 dudes was never meant to be able to engage a capital and win.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#65 - 2017-02-23 23:59:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrified
lanyaie wrote:
This has been a bad day for all of my ships..

Support Fighters - Signature Radius: 120 (+80)


Why did support fighters get such a massive increase? Especially considering there's only 3 of them in a squadron, why weren't they brought in line with regular light fighters but instead heavy fighters? Also, the only useful support fighter is the Siren, why have you not done a balance pass on the other ones? There's absolutely no reason to use the other ones currently as one would rather have the fighter hangar space

Agreed seems like a large increase compared to the number of these fighters in a squad.

Sub Starasque wrote:
It doesn't exactly help that T2 FSUs are actually garbage considering how little of an upgrade they are over T1 *before* stacking penalties.

Very true - the bonus for T2 support over T1 is sub-standard

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#66 - 2017-02-24 00:00:10 UTC
- 1. for the fighter changes. Micromicromanagement on carries is not ez, and on supers it's a total nightmare.

Also yes the mission rats agro fighters all the time and if they web them whole squadron is lost and will not make back Ugh

Making NPC's have more agro on fighters is just "WeW LaD" way not make it possible for rats to destroy your guns than? idk.

They already haras fighters a lot ....
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#67 - 2017-02-24 00:16:53 UTC
progodlegend wrote:
ITT:

tears over not being able to carrier rat for 100mil ticks anymore.

tears over not being able to obliterate subcaps with impunity anymore.

Adapt or Die

git gud

learn 2 play


You are just happy less of your dopey members will lose capitals in pve to us. Lol
Blood Animus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2017-02-24 00:17:21 UTC
Sub Starasque wrote:
Notice how all of the people "liking" this change are the TURN LEFT and other assorted picogang whatever dudes. Your kitey gang of 4 dudes was never meant to be able to engage a capital and win.

They get upset if people don't feed ships to their kitey gangs and feel obliged to whine when the first thing they catch lights a cyno and they have to beat a hasty retreat from space they don't own.
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#69 - 2017-02-24 01:18:05 UTC
So you've made it so fighters will get instablapped even harder by NPCs when they just decide to sit perfectly still after completing a command...
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#70 - 2017-02-24 01:30:56 UTC
Yay! Now the wyvern can actually carry a full set of fighters.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#71 - 2017-02-24 02:00:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Daide Vondrichnov
Your job is not done yet CCP, but that's the right direction ))).

Next step is nerfing the application, you can do it !

Sub Starasque wrote:
Notice how all of the people "liking" this change are the TURN LEFT and other assorted picogang whatever dudes. Your kitey gang of 4 dudes was never meant to be able to engage a capital and win.


Implying progodlegend is a member of the famous #Picogang community.
aussieftw
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#72 - 2017-02-24 02:09:42 UTC
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
- 1. for the fighter changes. Micromicromanagement on carries is not ez, and on supers it's a total nightmare.

Also yes the mission rats agro fighters all the time and if they web them whole squadron is lost and will not make back Ugh

Making NPC's have more agro on fighters is just "WeW LaD" way not make it possible for rats to destroy your guns than? idk.

They already haras fighters a lot ....

Pretty much this. I dont like these changes for fighters.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#73 - 2017-02-24 02:16:16 UTC
I don't even fly carriers and I can see that most of these changes suck... What does that say?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Doomchinchilla
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#74 - 2017-02-24 02:17:30 UTC
I still don't feel that changes to Shadows are good after testing them some more. Their F3 tooltip also doesn't tell you any information. On top of the fact why would anyone suicide 2.4b worth of fighters each time just to kill something. They either need a better F3... or maybe long range fighters, or something. They're just worthless.
Archeos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#75 - 2017-02-24 02:32:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Archeos
Horrific changes. The fighters are already easy to kill in PVE by frigs and destroyers, and are targetted all the time. Just a moment of distraction and forgetting to give them another command and you loose a fighter. As for PVP they can be ECM'ed , smartbombed and easily killed by any ship that has webs.

If you want to increase their sig radius, you have to increase their EHP as well, or else you will kill carrier use.

As for making them more like drones in sig size and being targeted more in pve, well if you want to make them more like drones than make them behave more like drones -> GIVE THEM AUTO AGGRO on enemies.

Really is there anyone asking for those changes ? Why do you want to fix something that isn't broken.
Malthuras
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2017-02-24 02:39:14 UTC
progodlegend wrote:
ITT:

tears over not being able to carrier rat for 100mil ticks anymore.

tears over not being able to obliterate subcaps with impunity anymore.

Adapt or Die

git gud

learn 2 play


This is why someone like you shouldn't be in any position whatsoever.

Coming in to brag about how its your idea, probably because others have more supers than you but you can bring bigger subcap numbers.

You're like Grath on crack.
Jo Kiyoko
Perkone
Caldari State
#77 - 2017-02-24 02:58:54 UTC
You're flying a carrier, not only a SP intensive class but requiring a lot of experience, at this level you should be an expert at handling any sort of inconvenience and work around it, yet it looks like most of you need a pacifier in your mouths.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#78 - 2017-02-24 03:36:04 UTC
Malthuras wrote:
progodlegend wrote:
ITT:

tears over not being able to carrier rat for 100mil ticks anymore.

tears over not being able to obliterate subcaps with impunity anymore.

Adapt or Die

git gud

learn 2 play


This is why someone like you shouldn't be in any position whatsoever.
...

It is always bad form for anyone with any level of authority, especially when it was derived from voters, to be condescending to others.

The only way to deal with them is to deprive them of their authority since ignoring them often ensures they gain more authority or otherwise muck up the things you enjoy.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
progodlegend
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#79 - 2017-02-24 03:56:05 UTC
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
Your job is not done yet CCP, but that's the right direction ))).

Next step is nerfing the application, you can do it !

Sub Starasque wrote:
Notice how all of the people "liking" this change are the TURN LEFT and other assorted picogang whatever dudes. Your kitey gang of 4 dudes was never meant to be able to engage a capital and win.


Implying progodlegend is a member of the famous #Picogang community.


Gimme that invite bro so we can form voltron
Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#80 - 2017-02-24 03:59:16 UTC
progodlegend wrote:
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
Your job is not done yet CCP, but that's the right direction ))).

Next step is nerfing the application, you can do it !

Sub Starasque wrote:
Notice how all of the people "liking" this change are the TURN LEFT and other assorted picogang whatever dudes. Your kitey gang of 4 dudes was never meant to be able to engage a capital and win.


Implying progodlegend is a member of the famous #Picogang community.


Gimme that invite bro so we can form voltron


Feel free to contact herrbert )))