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Increase the sensor strength of fighters as well so they're not much easier to scan down now (and have them harder to be jammed)
Aggro was fine on the fighters unless you want NPCs to permatarget and shoot fighters.
Do implants affect drone/fighter EHP? Should they?

The patch has a big problem.

Cause the problem is that a lot of T1 fighters are already randomly diyingin a lot of anos.
(Also if you use best way of killing all npc's)

Which means actually that if they die faster the fighter will cost more than the npc payout will bring.

Which makes Carrier Ratting useless.

HOLY ******* ****. HOLLLLYYYYYYY FU************** SHI***************

FOZZIE YOU BEAUTIFUL BASTARD. YOU ARE LISTENING UP THERE. WE DID IT BOYS, WE ******* DID IT.

SUBCAPS AREN'T DEAD JUST YET.

LARRIKIN YOU SON OF A ***** YOU CAME THROUGH ON THIS ONE.

OH MY GOD.

OH MY GOD.

I CAN'T BREATH.

BEST CHANGE EVER.

HOLY ****.

HOLY ****

OH MY GOD

OH MY G

W/e

I hope you like more dictors, cheap HACs, and light tackle because that's what you're going to see your fleet comps have a decent bit more instead of mainline T3 dps and CS/Recon support. Since carriers probably fatten your line members wallets and corp wallets and in turn SRP funds. But who am I to know.

Copying my reddit reply;

Are you kidding about increasing fighter sig radius? They already bleed fast as anything in a fleet fight. You usually lost 7/9 fighters if you pull them as soon as the first damage/ewar effect lands on them.

Honestly small fleets may be having trouble with them (they shouldn't, just bring ecm or a single web/paint) but in large fleets they are so vulnerable.



I'm not saying this as rhetoric. I've been in a decent number of carrier fights since the last set of changes, both in the context of citadel sieges, response fleets to small gangs, and just now a 40 carrier drop on two 100 man fleets (t3s and cerbs)

Fighters are actually awful to use in these fights effectively. It went typically like this;

* Lock targets as broadcast
* Launch fighters
* MWD fighters towards target, start applying dps.
* Sync volleys with all other carriers because fighter dps can't break subcaps
* Have eyes on fighters on all time, as soon as a single ewar effect or damage appeared pull that particular squad with MWD on
* Watch as most of the squad is melted before it returns
* Pull the other squads as they are targetted, restock and relaunch ASAP
* Berate the fact nothing is dying because you're having to constantly pull and relaunch and wonder how long you can continue for as the fighter stock dwindles.


Honestly have you guys done significant playtesting with this or is it mostly a case of observing complaints from people who struggle to kill them. Carriers are INCREDIBLY easy to defang, you literally need a few logi, a single webbing ship or a single target painter. If you're fighting a solo carrier or a small group of them you can even defang them with T1 ECM Ships (Griffins) because they have such a low sensor strength and the lock time even with NSA isn't fast enough to lock and pop.

I strongly urge you guys to reconsider on the fighter changes and do some homework (like a mass test). Yes if you bring a battleship or unsupported cruiser gang to kill a carrier you will get melted, but they are so obscenely easy to counter it's laughable.

Dude if you couldn't kill two 100 man fleets with 40 carriers you should check your fits out man, because that's just pathetic. You should have absolutely wrecked those cerbs and t3s. You don't even need to sync up your volleys you should be doing like 100k DPS+ easy.

As i understand from your post, you want to:
Make their signature radius larger (so other players can more easily target them)
Unbugg the NPC's hostile intentions to the Fighters (they are already very hostile towards them, but you want them to be more so).

Ok fine, but in return, you better make the fighters worth the money, time, skills etc.
Give them a large increase in EHP, respective of the m3 of space they occupy.
Make EWAR less effective, perhaps by the number of fighters left in that squadron.
Reduce their refueling time substantially. (since we will be returning them to bays more often)
Reduce their m3 so we can fit more of them in our fighter bays since they will be dying that much more often.
Reduce the mineral cost required to manufacture fighters since we will be going through them that much more often.
Increase the fighter's tracking speed and damage so the effective DPS will actually be more - since they will be spending more time flying back and refueling and being topped up in numbers, than before...


Increase Support Fighters usefulness - ie Cenobite Neut amount or reduce their cycle time. because they are already lacking in the usefullness department for the fact there are only 3, take up 9k m3 of space for one flight of them, and are easily alpha'd and now even more so if your changes go though...

If you think a group of 20 battleships getting wasted by a single carrier is not supposed to be right, you obviously haven't flown caps since the BoB days. No they shouldn't have impunity, but they should be able to rat. And whoever is getting 100m ticks is exploiting somewhere. Average tick in a carrier is ~50m. Try it sometime before you talk about it?

For the most part, the changes look good! The Wyvern sorely needed a larger drone bay and the burst projectors needed a buff.

A few suggestions:

1) Shadows will still be bad and un-used after the patch. If you want supercarriers to actually field them, you should instead make them a long range fighter bomber that gets an Afterburner prop mod.

2) Revenant fighter bay should be large as a Nyx's

3) The web strength bonus on a Vendetta should apply to Dromis and not to the web burst projector.