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EULA questions.

First post
Author
LouHodo
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#1 - 2017-02-21 22:59:03 UTC
So recently reading over the EULA, it has come to my attention there is a massive gap in the EULA.

Rule 6 section C, item 16, which states...

"You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules."

Technically anything anyone does IN game can effect another persons enjoyment, thus violate this rule.

This is by far the most obtuse rule I have seen in a EULA in a very long time. It is like saying, "Have fun, but dont have to much fun."

I suggest this rule be readdressed and or removed as it is just pointless in an open pvp atmosphere game like EVE.

Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2017-02-21 23:11:51 UTC
it's a way to stop people from camping the same guy at the same station 24/7 for 1 year!
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#3 - 2017-02-21 23:12:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
It's boilerplate legalese.

As long as you stay within the rules and don't push your luck (see post above) it's fine to interfere with the game play of others, interference with the game play of others causes conflict, which is a very large part of what drives the game.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2017-02-21 23:12:24 UTC
The rule is left intentionally vague. Because that way they have freedom to ban people for abusive or griefing behavior. Or for taking advantage of unforseen exploits. Without needing to spell out every single one of the potential behaviors. Which even if they tried, someone would do something potentially bannable and then whine "but the eula didn't specifically say I couldn't do this"

For example, a few years ago they made ganking, baiting, etc of players within the newbie spawn systems a bannable offense. Now it's been a while since I've actually read the entire eula but I doublt that point is included. Because it falls under c-16
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#5 - 2017-02-22 00:28:04 UTC
Quote:
...in accordance with it's rules


As long as you're following the other rules, this rule does not apply.

KB

Dum Spiro Spero

Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2017-02-22 01:30:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
The thing with the EULA is, that it's formulated in a way that CCP can space-lawyer it any way they bloody well like. My favourite example is this:

Quote:
You may not use [...] patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play.

Without specifying what "ordinary Game play" is, this could be anything. May I use a mouse? With more than two buttons? And a scrollwheel? May I sit in a comfy chair or do I have to stand?

One might say that common sense should be enough to not break the rules, but this has been proven to be false.

Most rules in the EULA and ToS are like this. They can kick you out for whatever reason they want, and will always find a justification in their terms for it. (not that they could not kick you out for no reason at all, it would just make them look bad).

I'm with Jonah Gravenstein: Just don't stretch your luck. Don't be a massive prick and if anyone with a colorful name tells you to stop doing something, then stop doing it.

As an example, I once had an interesting conversation in the german help channel. A corp CEO wanted to kick an awoxer from his corp, but he could not. We figured out that the perp was online and in space, in which case he cannot join or leave a corp. We theorized that one would be able to stay in a corp forever that way, as long as one was able to come online right after downtime. A GM joined in and said that while this would indeed work, they'd probably step in if the awoxer kept doing this for more than a day or two.

From my experience, accidentally doing something CCP might consider inacceptable will not result in severe consequences right away (with the exception of a few very high profile examples. If whatever you are doing causes a community shitstorm, then chances are high that you are f\\ked). You may get a warning or a temporary (chat-)ban, but unless you are a repeat offender you probably won't get exed on the spot. So, don't worry about it too much, just don't be a prick.
Amojin
Doomheim
#7 - 2017-02-22 01:37:39 UTC
It's a very common 'rule,' designed to be so obtuse and generic that it allows selective enforcement.

It's corp-speak for 'we can eliminate your account for any reason we want,' which is superfluous, since they already said that, too.
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#8 - 2017-02-22 01:59:53 UTC
OP, you didn't really think you had found a gaping error CCP's lawyers and everyone else who has ever read that EULA somehow missed, did you?

oh my...

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2017-02-22 03:34:23 UTC
Yeah, I agree and there's a few other rules that are also like that.

As most everyone else has stated, it's done like that on purpose to give CCP lot's of leeway to make a determination on each individual situation.



DMC
LouHodo
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#10 - 2017-02-22 22:53:35 UTC
In my opinion this rule NEEDS to change. CCP already has a clause stating they can terminate an account for what ever reason they feel like. It doesnt have to be a vague catch all rule for that. It is the same in EVERY MMO out there.

All this rule is, is for carebears who feel like they are getting picked on in game, in an open world PVP game.

ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#11 - 2017-02-23 00:31:12 UTC
Quote:
11. Discussion of warnings and bans is prohibited.

Such matters shall remain private between CCP and the involved user. Questions or comments concerning warnings and bans will be conveyed through email or private messaging. CCP respect the right of our players to privacy and as such you are not permitted to publicize private correspondence (including support ticket responses and emails) received from any member of CCP staff.


I have removed a post for the above reason.

ISD Max Trix

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.

Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#12 - 2017-02-23 03:46:17 UTC
The EULA is a document to restrict player behavior. It does not dictate CCP behavior. They don't have to enforce every single little detail of the EULA all the time. Non enforcement today doesn't mean they can't enforce something tomorrow. The player, on the other hand, is bound by the EULA and any behavior that violates it can be enforced by CCP at any time now or in the future.

CCP is perfectly allowed to ban you today for that thing you did 10 years ago, for example. The fact that they chose to ignore it for the past 10 years doesn't mean they lose that right. You're the one being limited as the licensee. CCP is the one granting the license. They can do what they want - including doing nothing at all.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#13 - 2017-02-23 04:32:42 UTC
Ever notice that lawyer isn't a capsular profession in EVE? They all got spaced...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

mkint
#14 - 2017-02-23 06:38:08 UTC
cba'd to check the context, but considering it includes "website" I assume it means no hacking. Of course whatever twisted sicko who comes up with the world's EULAs makes them so they can mean whatever they want, whenever they want. And naturally that means CCP will do whatever they want, whenever they want, and has done up to the point where they've risked getting banned from certain countries. Oh, CCP, you corrupt bastards.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#15 - 2017-02-23 09:41:14 UTC
That is the point where i said about "ganking is against rules" but nobody believes me ;p
Yebo Lakatosh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2017-02-23 09:49:49 UTC
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
That is the point where i said about "ganking is against rules" but nobody believes me ;p
Don't you think someone must have noticed it in the past 14 years if it were the case?

Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.

Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#17 - 2017-02-23 10:40:30 UTC
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
That is the point where i said about "ganking is against rules" but nobody believes me ;p
Don't you think someone must have noticed it in the past 14 years if it were the case?


Nope - ppl just ignore it, and CCP act like they accept this is normal behavior (ganking others);
cause half of EVE population live just to gank others =]
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#18 - 2017-02-23 13:03:30 UTC
Quote:
12. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.

The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a support ticket under the Community & Forums Category


I have removed a post for the above reason. If you feel your post/tread/comment was moderated in error, Please file a support ticket.

ISD Max Trix

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.

Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#19 - 2017-02-23 13:38:07 UTC
The paragraph is the MMO equivalent to a bouncer telling you: Other customers are complaining about you, please get out (and we won't let you back in). Your house, your rules...
Yebo Lakatosh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2017-02-23 14:20:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Yebo Lakatosh
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
That is the point where i said about "ganking is against rules" but nobody believes me ;p (...)
ppl just ignore it, and CCP act like they accept this is normal behavior (ganking others); cause half of EVE population live just to gank others =]
Wait... do you mean the rule quoted in the OP? I was advised against space lawyering... but one has to try everything fun in EvE.


I don't think that rule applies to ganking. Let's examine the wording: "You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game (...)"

It doesn't mean that players may not interfere with the enjoyment or another player. That would be virtually and practically impossible. We don't even need to look at pvp to see that: even byuing a cheap item faster than someone, or mining everything efficiently in a system when someone else wants to do the same may cause a certain negative emotion in others - regardless of how faint and brief it is.

What this rule forbids is to maim one's ability to enjoy the game. I can't really think of modern examples of how this could happen - guess camping someone 24/7 would fit. Taking down any number or value of assets definately not. My proof for that is any player who you see on the server. One day any one of them had nothing more than a noobship, yet they enjoyed the game, so they got to where they are now. QED.


Please correct me if I had incorrect assumptions or other factors that could invalidate my analysis. I can be just as mistaken as the tens of thousands of players who failed to notice that half of them violate a rule for a decade.


By the way... if you take another look at the wording, you'll notice that it only applies to subscribers. Feel free to be as mean to us Alphas as necessary. P

Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.

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