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EULA questions.

First post
Author
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#21 - 2017-02-23 14:45:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
That is the point where i said about "ganking is against rules" but nobody believes me ;p
Whatever gave you that idea?

The rule being discussed doesn't forbid ganking, which is normal gameplay and doesn't break any rules.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#22 - 2017-02-23 15:26:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
High-sec systems should be safe - no more criminal activity whatsoever.
Relocate L4 missions (including Burners) along with CONCORD to low-sec.
Watch as a mass-migration to low-sec ensues with wardec mechanics taking on a new light...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

LouHodo
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#23 - 2017-02-23 23:13:52 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
That is the point where i said about "ganking is against rules" but nobody believes me ;p
Whatever gave you that idea?

The rule being discussed doesn't forbid ganking, which is normal gameplay and doesn't break any rules.


Technically he is right.

Ganking IS against the rules.
But so is.....
-Undercutting on the markets.
-Non-consensual PvP.
-Gate Camping.
-loot snatching (theft)
-contract bidding wars
-non consensual corp wars.

Or anything that interferes with another players enjoyment of the game.
Dark Lord Trump
0.0 Massive Dynamic
Pandemic Horde
#24 - 2017-02-23 23:19:36 UTC
LouHodo wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
That is the point where i said about "ganking is against rules" but nobody believes me ;p
Whatever gave you that idea?

The rule being discussed doesn't forbid ganking, which is normal gameplay and doesn't break any rules.


Technically he is right.

Ganking IS against the rules.
But so is.....
-Undercutting on the markets.
-Non-consensual PvP.
-Gate Camping.
-loot snatching (theft)
-contract bidding wars
-non consensual corp wars.

Or anything that interferes with another players enjoyment of the game.

Wrong. Those all happen within the game rules and therefore are not a violation of that section of the EULA. It would be incredibly foolish to make against the EULA ruining someone's day without violating some other provision of the EULA in a game that is basically designed to let you ruin someone's day.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

Amojin
Doomheim
#25 - 2017-02-23 23:28:36 UTC
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
LouHodo wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
That is the point where i said about "ganking is against rules" but nobody believes me ;p
Whatever gave you that idea?

The rule being discussed doesn't forbid ganking, which is normal gameplay and doesn't break any rules.


Technically he is right.

Ganking IS against the rules.
But so is.....
-Undercutting on the markets.
-Non-consensual PvP.
-Gate Camping.
-loot snatching (theft)
-contract bidding wars
-non consensual corp wars.

Or anything that interferes with another players enjoyment of the game.

Wrong. Those all happen within the game rules and therefore are not a violation of that section of the EULA. It would be incredibly foolish to make against the EULA ruining someone's day without violating some other provision of the EULA in a game that is basically designed to let you ruin someone's day.



Yup, there is a difference, though, between ganking and griefing. If you make someone your special target, and keep on them, time after time, that's griefing. If they are stupid, and fly some expensive gank-bait and you take it, then fine, but if you hit them, over and over again, in the game, or in the forums, you're griefing.
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#26 - 2017-02-23 23:46:38 UTC
CCP can choose to interpret almost anything as a EULA violation. It takes a lot of study and trial/error to figure out what the rules actually are.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#27 - 2017-02-24 00:30:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Amojin wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
LouHodo wrote:

Technically he is right.

Ganking IS against the rules.
But so is.....
-Undercutting on the markets.
-Non-consensual PvP.
-Gate Camping.
-loot snatching (theft)
-contract bidding wars
-non consensual corp wars.

Or anything that interferes with another players enjoyment of the game.

Wrong. Those all happen within the game rules and therefore are not a violation of that section of the EULA. It would be incredibly foolish to make against the EULA ruining someone's day without violating some other provision of the EULA in a game that is basically designed to let you ruin someone's day.



Yup, there is a difference, though, between ganking and griefing. If you make someone your special target, and keep on them, time after time, that's griefing. If they are stupid, and fly some expensive gank-bait and you take it, then fine, but if you hit them, over and over again, in the game, or in the forums, you're griefing.
Agreed, persistently targeting someone in game may well be considered to be griefing by CCP, however they do take into account circumstance; for example wardeccing every corp that someone joins and telling their CEO the reason why, isn't harassment/griefing AFAIK, that's generally retribution.

In game such things are probably dealt with on a case by case basis, there's a rough definition of what CCP may consider to be griefing, as in harassment, in the opening post of the bumping sticky over in C&P.

Replace bumping with PvP activity of choice and it's probably a halfway decent guideline, or as Neuntausend so elequontly put it:

"Don't be a massive prick and if anyone with a colorful name tells you to stop doing something, then stop doing it."

On the forums I couldn't possibly comment about what would be classified as harassment, strict as the rules may be the community team are incredibly tolerant. They must be, because when I drunk post, especially in ire, it can be incredibly offensive to the target, and entertaining for everyone else; I've never received a forum ban for it, but I'm pretty certain that I've been within a gnats danglies of one on more than one occasion.

Edited to reflect the point made below

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2017-02-24 00:35:55 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
LouHodo wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
That is the point where i said about "ganking is against rules" but nobody believes me ;p
Whatever gave you that idea?

The rule being discussed doesn't forbid ganking, which is normal gameplay and doesn't break any rules.


Technically he is right.

Ganking IS against the rules.
But so is.....
-Undercutting on the markets.
-Non-consensual PvP.
-Gate Camping.
-loot snatching (theft)
-contract bidding wars
-non consensual corp wars.

Or anything that interferes with another players enjoyment of the game.

Wrong. Those all happen within the game rules and therefore are not a violation of that section of the EULA. It would be incredibly foolish to make against the EULA ruining someone's day without violating some other provision of the EULA in a game that is basically designed to let you ruin someone's day.



Yup, there is a difference, though, between ganking and griefing. If you make someone your special target, and keep on them, time after time, that's griefing. If they are stupid, and fly some expensive gank-bait and you take it, then fine, but if you hit them, over and over again, in the game, or in the forums, you're griefing.


Generally when that happens, its called a wardec.
Amojin
Doomheim
#29 - 2017-02-24 00:43:43 UTC
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Generally when that happens, its called a wardec.


Yeah, I just had one of those, ending on the 21st, hilariously called Ishtar preservation society or whatever. lol

Know how you can best preserve Ishtar lovers? By killing them, apparently. I didn't suffer a loss, but still, it was funny that they paid. Instead of recognizing a kindred spirit and asking me to join them, what did they do? Declare war. I'll never understand people, I guess, beyond, 'they're evil and stupid.'
hmu-smh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2017-02-24 01:04:36 UTC  |  Edited by: hmu-smh
Dude the entirety of EULA in this game is a joke, made by people without any clue of gaming communities, especially in 2017.
Quinn Hatfield
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2017-02-24 01:57:00 UTC
hmu-smh wrote:
Dude the entirety of EULA in this game is a joke, made by people without any clue of gaming communities, especially in 2017.
99% of it is no different from that of other games, are theirs a joke too? Have you read the work of art that is the EULA for a Microsoft product?


I don't burn bridges, I merely steal a bolt a day.

Amojin
Doomheim
#32 - 2017-02-24 03:14:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Amojin
Quinn Hatfield wrote:
hmu-smh wrote:
Dude the entirety of EULA in this game is a joke, made by people without any clue of gaming communities, especially in 2017.
99% of it is no different from that of other games, are theirs a joke too? Have you read the work of art that is the EULA for a Microsoft product?




That's why I liked NetBSD. We said, here. Here it is. Take it. Use it. Adapt it. We don't care if you're commercial or private. Take it.

We were not Linux, we were not Theo deRaddt, whining with the IPF code. We said, yes. If you can make humanity better you are welcome to be GREATER than us. Take our ****, and make it better.

Today's EULA's? You'll pardon me if I puke, right?
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#33 - 2017-02-24 06:32:50 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Quinn Hatfield wrote:
hmu-smh wrote:
Dude the entirety of EULA in this game is a joke, made by people without any clue of gaming communities, especially in 2017.
99% of it is no different from that of other games, are theirs a joke too? Have you read the work of art that is the EULA for a Microsoft product?




That's why I liked NetBSD. We said, here. Here it is. Take it. Use it. Adapt it. We don't care if you're commercial or private. Take it.

We were not Linux, we were not Theo deRaddt, whining with the IPF code. We said, yes. If you can make humanity better you are welcome to be GREATER than us. Take our ****, and make it better.

Today's EULA's? You'll pardon me if I puke, right?

Eh, what's wrong with Linux's GPL? It offers you all the things you mentioned but makes sure the software stays free so the whole industry can profit from the improvements.

Do you use Windows to play EVE?
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#34 - 2017-02-24 10:26:28 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Max Trix
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
LouHodo wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
That is the point where i said about "ganking is against rules" but nobody believes me ;p
Whatever gave you that idea?

The rule being discussed doesn't forbid ganking, which is normal gameplay and doesn't break any rules.


Technically he is right.

Ganking IS against the rules.
But so is.....
-Undercutting on the markets.
-Non-consensual PvP.
-Gate Camping.
-loot snatching (theft)
-contract bidding wars
-non consensual corp wars.

Or anything that interferes with another players enjoyment of the game.

Wrong. Those all happen within the game rules and therefore are not a violation of that section of the EULA. It would be incredibly foolish to make against the EULA ruining someone's day without violating some other provision of the EULA in a game that is basically designed to let you ruin someone's day.


*No Kill boards. *snip* ISD Max Trix


Soooooo thats why u want to prove me that it's not against EULA? :)
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#35 - 2017-02-24 19:37:40 UTC
Shooting spaceships in a spaceship shooting game is obviously not against the EULA. Posting killmails on the forums however is clearly against the forum rules.
LouHodo
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#36 - 2017-02-24 22:59:59 UTC
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
LouHodo wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
That is the point where i said about "ganking is against rules" but nobody believes me ;p
Whatever gave you that idea?

The rule being discussed doesn't forbid ganking, which is normal gameplay and doesn't break any rules.


Technically he is right.

Ganking IS against the rules.
But so is.....
-Undercutting on the markets.
-Non-consensual PvP.
-Gate Camping.
-loot snatching (theft)
-contract bidding wars
-non consensual corp wars.

Or anything that interferes with another players enjoyment of the game.

Wrong. Those all happen within the game rules and therefore are not a violation of that section of the EULA. It would be incredibly foolish to make against the EULA ruining someone's day without violating some other provision of the EULA in a game that is basically designed to let you ruin someone's day.


So as long as I do it in game I am ok? But if I report it then it is not ok?

I feel you fail to see my point.

My point is that I can report you for anything I feel is offensive to me. This could be as much as me saying, I dont want to fight you I dont have time. And you spend the next 30seconds to 5min blowing my ship to confetti, after I said no. Well that would be unfun for me, but fun for you. This would interfere with my enjoyment of the game THUS against Rule 6, section C, item 16.

Dark Lord Trump
0.0 Massive Dynamic
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2017-02-24 23:15:48 UTC
LouHodo wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
LouHodo wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
That is the point where i said about "ganking is against rules" but nobody believes me ;p
Whatever gave you that idea?

The rule being discussed doesn't forbid ganking, which is normal gameplay and doesn't break any rules.


Technically he is right.

Ganking IS against the rules.
But so is.....
-Undercutting on the markets.
-Non-consensual PvP.
-Gate Camping.
-loot snatching (theft)
-contract bidding wars
-non consensual corp wars.

Or anything that interferes with another players enjoyment of the game.

Wrong. Those all happen within the game rules and therefore are not a violation of that section of the EULA. It would be incredibly foolish to make against the EULA ruining someone's day without violating some other provision of the EULA in a game that is basically designed to let you ruin someone's day.


So as long as I do it in game I am ok? But if I report it then it is not ok?

I feel you fail to see my point.

My point is that I can report you for anything I feel is offensive to me. This could be as much as me saying, I dont want to fight you I dont have time. And you spend the next 30seconds to 5min blowing my ship to confetti, after I said no. Well that would be unfun for me, but fun for you. This would interfere with my enjoyment of the game THUS against Rule 6, section C, item 16.


Wrong again. There's no rule saying I'm not allowed to engage people who don't want to fight me. Therefore it's not in violation of Rule 6, Section C, Item 16. If it's not fun for you, too bad and welcome to EvE.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

Dark Lord Trump
0.0 Massive Dynamic
Pandemic Horde
#38 - 2017-02-24 23:19:03 UTC
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
LouHodo wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
That is the point where i said about "ganking is against rules" but nobody believes me ;p
Whatever gave you that idea?

The rule being discussed doesn't forbid ganking, which is normal gameplay and doesn't break any rules.


Technically he is right.

Ganking IS against the rules.
But so is.....
-Undercutting on the markets.
-Non-consensual PvP.
-Gate Camping.
-loot snatching (theft)
-contract bidding wars
-non consensual corp wars.

Or anything that interferes with another players enjoyment of the game.

Wrong. Those all happen within the game rules and therefore are not a violation of that section of the EULA. It would be incredibly foolish to make against the EULA ruining someone's day without violating some other provision of the EULA in a game that is basically designed to let you ruin someone's day.


Soooooo thats why u want to prove me that it's not against EULA? :)

No, I'd like you to back up your ridiculous claim that PvP in a PvP game is against the EULA because I hold the irrational belief that I can somehow get it into your head that ganking is not illegal, evil, or the thing that will kill EvE, and requiring you to provide evidence gives me something to argue against. It has nothing to do with my corpmates killing freighters.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#39 - 2017-02-24 23:46:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
LouHodo wrote:
So as long as I do it in game I am ok? But if I report it then it is not ok?

I feel you fail to see my point.

My point is that I can report you for anything I feel is offensive to me.
Yep you can, and we can laugh at you for it.

Quote:
This could be as much as me saying, I dont want to fight you I dont have time. And you spend the next 30seconds to 5min blowing my ship to confetti, after I said no. Well that would be unfun for me, but fun for you. This would interfere with my enjoyment of the game THUS against Rule 6, section C, item 16.
The point that you're failing to see is that shooting people in the face or otherwise interfering with their enjoyment, with or without their express consent, is considered by CCP to be normal game play, and thus within the rules of the game; there is one explicit exception that will get the attention of CCP, messing with newbies in the tutorial systems and Arnon.

The rule that you're hung up on is there to cover the possibility that someone may go outside of the realms of what is considered to be normal gameplay in order to target someone for the purposes of interfering with their enjoyment of the game. DDOSing and Doxxing etc are the kinds of things that this rule is designed to cover, as is the infamous bonus room of Erotica1.

For reference purposes, the following are considered to be normal gameplay, it is not complete.

  • Suicide ganking
  • Wars
  • Mission Invasions
  • Ninja Looting
  • Suspect baiting
  • Scams
  • AWOXing
  • Corporate Theft
  • Ransoms
  • Gatecamps

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#40 - 2017-02-25 03:04:49 UTC
LouHodo wrote:

My point is that I can report you for anything I feel is offensive to me...


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