EVE General Discussion

It was satire.

The posting I did above is commonplace on Reddit, and thanks to the rules of this forum and moderators like yourself, rarely occurs here.

That, exactly, is the difference between Reddit, and here.

The shiptoasters left this place, and moved to Reddit, where they can avoid moderation.
If you think its hard for you here, its nothing compared to the volume of crap on Reddit.
For a mod there, its like 24/7 sitting with your mouth open to receive the crap hundreds of posters flush down their toilet.

That is why Reddit needs a up/down censure/amplification system, because they are flooded with crap from those shiptoasters without sufficient moderators/means to forestall it.

People are suggesting Reddit as a better place, when infect it is exactly the place so overwhelmed with so much garbage that they cant handle it without giving it over to public means of censure.

Reddit itself, as a player run community, is fine. If that is what they want, let them have it. Nothing wrong with that.
But when it comes to Dev output/input it should happen here, on CCPS turf.

I have nothing against Devs engaging with players on 3rd party platforms, but all the important stuff should happen here.

I am glad to see Falcon is already aware of this, and that CCP is moving forward on this.
Im also glad that you understood my satire, whether you agreed with it or not, and did not take action except as to respond to me.
I find all of the above invaluable and proof positive that you, and CCP understand the issues involved here.

GF
o7

Please stop feeding the troll.

It's very telling that the first thing you think of with a user moderated system is being silenced by groupthink. Makes you imagine that this is what you would try to do with such a system. A big factor to the echo chamber on reddit is the sorting of posts, and the nested replies each has.

Really I think these forums have a different enough atmosphere to reddit not to worry too much about the possibility. Especially if threads remain sorted by recent posts, and the posts they contain remain in chronological order. In threads like these long discussions seem to happen naturally. We could have moderaters removing outright spiteful attacks, with potential bans enforced. For things not worthy of actual moderation we could have a user moderated system. CCP moderation would have to remain light so it's not overmoderated, but I don't think many would have a problem with personal vicious attacks being off the cards.

Your first paragraph is a bit spiteful and sly, suggesting motives that neither I nor Salvos have, and the imagine is all in your head, it is not what we would do, the few who post on these forums against the group think, but what the group think already here and controlling these forums will do with such a system, we can see that by the sly insults such as applying motives to me or Salvos that we simply do not have.

Your second paragraph is more reasoned, but very few what I would call casual players come near this forum because all they get is insulted, having a user moderated system will remove their voices unless CCP Falcon in his design enable us carebears (as I get incorrectly defined as) or dissenting voices to see the down voted people first above all the echo chamber top posted stuff. If he does that then you can have your echo chamber and I can have mine. Better still to set up areas of the forums for the HTFU posters and another for the more carebear and casual players and never let them meet, to be blunt from my experience of discussing anything with the HTFU players it is a colossal waste of time anyway.

I'll gladly eat my hat over the first paragraph then, things had become a bit heated but that was your first post in this thread so it was unreasonable of me. I was actually just about to edit my last post to add that groupthink is already here, and everywhere there are groups of people. I see you classify HTFU players as seperate to yourself, and I wouldn't classify myself as that. It's no different to you being called a carebear, but since you do feel there are seperate groups I would argue your group also suffers from groupthink.

I think the reasoned discussion here is far better than most internet comments, but I think that comes down to the types who play a game like eve in the first place. I think as long as threads and posts remain in the order they are, and replies continue to appear chronologically, this forum will retain a lot of it's character. Likes/dislikes would just be used by people that couldn't be bothered replying, and as such should have very little effect. It is possible to improve a user moderated system, such as limiting the amount of likes/dislikes a user can hand out daily for example. If a forum user didn't want to see replies below say -10, they could set that as an option.

[img]https://i.imgflip.com/1jk9qz.jpg[/img]


But in all honesty half of those who want the ISD gone are the same people who send most of the reports in.

We don't want you gone, you big goof, we want a different kind of moderation.

It's like this. If I say "D1ck" you spend time and effort dealing with a trivial (and candidly inoffensive) evasion of the FORBIDDEN WORDS POLICY!!!!111

But if I derail a potentially interesting (or at least releven discussion) into being "Bears vs Gankers" thread number thirty eight thousand nine hundred and seventy three, or just sea-lion it to death, or acuse people of mental disorders rather than engage with their arguments (or examine my own), then nothing happens. At least, nothing that I care about.

The first is virtually irrelevent to the conduct and value of the forums. The latter is completely destructive and has reduced EVE-O General discussion (not to mention The Assembly Hall and Features And Ideas) into an open joke amongst the EVE community.

It's openly commented on other forums that any thread which might be going somewhere that someone doesn't like (nerfing this, buffing that, re-working the other) can be trivially shut down because you guys will lock a thread as soon as there's a tiny amount of poo-flinging. That's not me making an argument in favour of ignoring poo-flinging, it's an argument in favour of interdicting *bad posting*. I know that's harder to do than stopping people saying "d1ck a$$ t1tt1es" because you can't just look up a list of bad posting and stick to it, but there it is. The fact that there are essentially no meaningful consequences - and considerable rewards - for diverting threads, sealioning, arguments in obviously bad faith and just general badposting mean that the EVE-O forums are ignored by the most active parts of the community.

That's where r/eve and other forums win so heavily over this one. There are actual consequences, if only loss of sweet, sweet karma, to wrecking threads with the kind of posting which is not only accepted but practically the standard here.

Not to mention the, shall we say, inexplicably inconsistent moderation here that is perfectly content to see a forum member call me a liar and a sociopath to my face, but gets me a 6 week ban for suggesting that someone learn to read a little better since their reply indicated that they'd thought I'd stated the exact opposite of what I really said. I am, of course, 100% confident that said ban was absolutely nothing to do with any pent-up ISD member's resentment being expressed at the end my CSM tenure and CCP Dolan's aegis being lifted.

Malcanis

Followed your post till the last paragraph. Then you lost me. ISD's can not ban or mute someone on the forums. We can how ever submit to CCP (the community team) what the player did/posted. At that point CCP makes the call on a ban or mute. Now if it's bad enough (such as someone spamming porn malware etc) we can request an emergency mute from the GM team. But we better have a damn good reason to go that route because Internal Affairs will be asking. So you accusation that the ISD banned you is false on its face, your issue there is with CCP.

I know the feeling.....

it's all happening on reddit these days.. forums dead because of censorship