EVE General Discussion

Im ok with up/down liking/voting, but not with that resulting in suppression/censor of the post, or changing its order in precedence.

1) Yes, my opinions and views are sometimes (often) that unpopular, and I have pissed off a great deal of self-interested persons by thwarting their plans. Funnily enough, I have nonetheless almost always agreed with your posts.

2) Standard CCP sourced moderation will naturally have to apply in a new system. There has to be rules and impartial moderation.

3) I propose that the new system includes a like/dislike system, so that persons not ready/able to post can show support/dissent for any one post. But I am against, as you are, like/dislike ratio changing the order of precedence of posts or suppressing/amplifying them.

4) Thus the concept of community moderation is carried, in that a post with opposition/support is represented that way by like/dislike numbers, but no actual censure/censor is systemically applied, which is CCPs moderation teams purview anyways for transgressions against common rules.

5) Im all for a more free format, but common rules must apply. CCP must remain the final decider. Players must not be allowed to suppress/amplify content systemically. A like/dislike option offers an oppurtinity to express support/dissent, without suppressing/amplifying views un/popular voting as on Reddit.

Thus readers have three choices. Either take the small effort of clicking like/dislike, or take the extended effort of arguing your position, or do both.

I was weary of the votes having an effect on posts for reasons live already mentioned. That said, I can get behind this sort of action. It allows the contributors to have some say without censuring other people's opinions to oblivion.

You are not the first to bring this up. But the conclusion derived from previous discussions on this matter are settled on the idea that online web forums as "social media" have a lot of competition now and in a changing landscape a user forum such as this one is a dinosaur. There are newwr ways to communicate with other players, it's easier to set up voice coms, blogs, messaging, and finally, one need not come to forums to get answers. So given that the forums certainly are not as lively or interesting as they used to be. /r/eve at Reddit is fairly lively and full of shitpoast for example.

Censuring already happens and for good reason but for it to be used as a tool by the community should never happen!

The forums have rules and as long as you stay within them there isn't an issue, in over 10 years of posting and reading on these forums i've only had a couple of moments where a GM had to step in.

everyones opinions should be allowed, even when and honestly more importatnly when you dont llike it.

for some i feel as if they need the word forum explained to them.

falcon is on the case anyways, so i'm looking forward to what he and the team comes up with.

CCP cant force people to post good content.
Its entirely up to each individual what they post, and their responsibility.

Just like in the game, it completely up to players what content they provide, whether good or bad.
Everything that doesn't break the rules, is allowed.

The reason moderation has become stricter on this board, is because some posters themselves took it too far, too often.
CCP has a responsibility to protect its staff and the integrity of its reputation, and of the forum and its participant players.

Your arguments on what mob "moderation" constitutes, is false.
Mobs dont moderate anything, they thrive instead on excess.
Mobs just want to shout louder than the other mob, to drown out their voice.
Whoever shouts loudest, wins.
Doesnt matter who has the better argument, just whom has the loudest supporters.

Definition of mob:
-a large or disorderly crowd; especially one bent on riotous or destructive action

I don't want 100 people making content hidden from me, cos they "don't like" it.
I also dont want 100 people forcing content down my throat, cos they "like" it.
Is that what you want?

I don't give a rat's anus what you do or don't like.
That is your problem, not mine.
Who are you to restrict someone else's content?

Go cry to mommy if someone's views are against yours, and you don't like them.
You want to try and hide in a mob, as one of many, with no personal accountability.

HTFU and engage the opposition on it. Adapt. Deal with it.
That is the EVE way.

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A like/dislike button is fine, as a means for players to show support/dissent for a post, but that should not, in anyway shape or form, systemically change post/thread order, or cause hidden/amplified status of any players post.

If you cant be arsed to take the time to contribute content except by simply clicking like/dislike, then that's all you get.
If you want to have more more effect than that, you are going to have to put in the time/effort and get your hands dirty by posting content yourself.

PS: Your aphorism is wrong. Pissing into the wind is when you end up pissing all over yourself.
On Reddit, pissing into the wind, is when you try and direct your argument against mass mob opinion (the wind).
Whereas if you post in favor of the mass mob opinion (wind), it will carry your **** much, much farther and away from you.

Really? Is this why these forums are so quiet and CCP are posting on reddit, where they cannot protect either their reputation or their staff?


Mob was your word, I prefer to think of it as a hivemind. Any poster can post their ideas, and everyone else is free to judge those ideas. Yes a general consensus emerges from the hivemind over time, but this is just human culture. I find it hard to understand when you say it doesn't matter who has the better argument, an argument is where you try to convince the other side of your views. If you present your views in a good way, if you present a good argument, you have no problem.

You either don't seem to understand crowd moderation or have a reason to purposely misrepresent it. Moderation is all about limiting excess or extremes, and if you present an excessive/extreme view, the crowd won't react well to it.


No.


I'm 100% agreed that post order, and especially thread order, should remain as is. However hiding a massively disliked post behind a button doesn't really affect anyone. It just saves people from wasting time reading pointless posts, unless they want to click the button and read it. I've already suggested that in keeping with the spirit of eve, the people behind the likes/dislikes should be viewable to anyone. That way if goons decide to try bury a post, it would be obvious to anyone who bothered to check.

You say again and again that I only want to hide in a crowd, yet here I still am discussing this with you. The insults against my character are not appreciated, and quite possibly are the very reason you are afraid of crowd moderation.

Oh, I certainly understand why.

Its to:
1) Extricate Devs from this moderated system into a 3rd party system, so as to **** in their ear for personal advantage.
2) To avoid the restrictions here on ship-poasting.
3) To shift discussion from a regulated format based on content, to one based on mass/loud opinion and censure.

GF and well done for succeeding.
You (generally, not you specifically) have managed to AWOX Devs off this board, to one not controlled by CCP, but by players.
I genuinely, no reservations, applaud the success of this Ops.
It is worthy of what EVE players are famous for.

This is not the first time this has happened in any number of MMOs or competitive games.
Usually its cos the official boards are so bad that using them is a huge pain.
Sometimes its cos players have created a site that has so many more beneficial functions and operation.
Occasionally it involves little private cliques on private networks.

But the result, and the purpose, is always the same as listed numerically above.

This right here is a display of the inability to recognize uncomfortable truth. Reddit (and twitter and facebook and the other venues the CCP employees use more than these forums) aren't some conspiracy. NO ONE MAKES THE CCP GUYS USE THEM instead of this place.

Those places/venues/methods are just better Measurably better. For example with Reddit I was able to easily see a picture of the Chimera Redesign, was easily able to find info about an in game news event, and easily found info regarding probing and dscanning. Here I'd have had to know exaclty where to go for that info

LOOK (if the truth does not scare you) at the front page of this forum section. Compared to the useful info on R/EVe we have:

-1 thread from an idiot complaining about having 5 characters training (something that is completely optional

-Another guy complaining that he didn't get a commander spawn in syndicate.

-A guyy saying "Bye and Good Riddence" in gank complain thread number 9,872,418

-A "think of the new players" thread that is actually a "I'm a veteran player who died stupidly in a gate camp because I'm stupid, nerf gate camps naow!" thread. BTW this thread has the most replies

-And a "what's wrong with EVE" complaint thread.

NOTHING on the front page of this forum section is in the least bit useful or informative. It's all complaints or spergy bullshit. Spergy bullshit that would have been down-voted on reddit. And it's here that we get to the REAL crux of the matter, the real reasons, reason EVE forum partisans can't understand because they are, well, partisan.

These forums only provide entertainment to adult man-children who take video games way too seriously. The provide a false sense of "communicating with the powers that be" for unhappy people who can't stop playing a video game they fundamentally dislike. It provides a venue for people who enjoy watching over-sensitive people (who can't cope with the arduous task of surviving in a spaceship video game) suffer in public.

(and I'll admit right here, that last sentence is about me, I do actually enjoy watching people melt down and blame everyone but themselves because they themselves can't play a video game right. I outta become catholic so I can go to confession for this lol).


Someone who really cared about the situation would strive to discover the true reasons for this forums unpopularity with everyone (not just the developers). But as in real life, so on the internet, and it's more gratifying to say that it's come sort of evil conspiracy than to look at the real reasons.

Let's not start comparing the quality of Reddit/EVE thread topics and posts to the EVE Forums. Just because there may be less whining on Reddit does not necessarily mean there aren't still plenty of junk threads...

* Gorski Car finally bends the knee...
* Just in case you forgot...
* This one time my corp abducted a new bro...
* Monday trash talk thread...