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Where did the fun go?

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#41 - 2017-02-06 17:13:34 UTC
It just struck me that these forums are a cautionary tale for the game itself.

For YEARS people complained about how nasty these forums were, how "Toxic" it was, and for the need for the powers that be to do something.

Well they did, and we get forum posts like this asking where the fun with, and other posts complaining about Reddit and Twitter and the rest.

For YEARS people complained that EVE was too harsh and unforgiving, and filled with "Toxic" people and how there was a need for the powers that be to do something...

Anyone else seeing a pattern?
Salvos Rhoska
#42 - 2017-02-06 17:19:14 UTC
Reddit is:

-An anonymous format, unlike this board.
-Less moderated, or partisan moderated, or community moderated by up/down vote, all of which are attractive to shiptoasters.
-As anonymous, does not involve repercussions for posts that might have consequences here.
-Populist, so groups can up/down vote antagonists/friends.
-Mods are not held to the same restrictions/controls as here.

TLDR: Reddit allows for shiptoasting without identification or repercussions, biasing discussion with up/down voting, and biased moderation.

I dont see any of those as a good thing. Hence, I stay here.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#43 - 2017-02-06 17:19:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Yeah. You might get away with a handful of errant posts or threads, but CONCORD eventually sweeps in and clears the field. This isn't so much about the EVE Forums vs. EVE Reddit than it is the devs having more or less abandoned these forums.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Salvos Rhoska
#44 - 2017-02-06 17:31:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
This isn't so much about the EVE Forums vs. EVE Reddit than it is the devs having more or less abandoned these forums.


This is a problem.

Devs should be here, not on a 3rd party format.
Especially when that third party platform involves partisan up/down voting, anonymity, shiptoasting that is not allowed by CCP here, and currying favor with biased moderators.

Basically players have managed to extricate Devs off the official moderated sanctioned and ruled board bound by TOS/EULA and the Devs own contracts, to a 3rd party system, for purposes of influencing said Devs.

Its like AWOX of CCP Devs to a 3rd party platform. Im sure the community there provides "incentives", but its for their own purpose of pissing in their ear on a separated system.

Players love to subvert Devs. Considering Reddits format compared to here, that is exactly ehy they are doing so.
To draw them to a format where neither they, nor the Devs, are restricted by the constraints (which exist for good reason) here.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#45 - 2017-02-06 17:45:33 UTC
CCP needs both forums for different reasons, most importantly being able to talk out of both sides of their mouth. Straight

I've only ever seen moderation truly be questionable once here but that's thread-lock-talk so :zip:

I think the others are right, giving the average sociopathic Eve Online player an anonymous soapbox to spew their beliefs and just in base design, threads can derail within threads and those discussions are easily closed if you're not interested in the usual highsec tough talk or semantics or nullsec F1.

@lunettelulu7
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#46 - 2017-02-06 17:49:39 UTC
Yes, but there's a block feature that is easily utilized.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Salvos Rhoska
#47 - 2017-02-06 17:50:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
The Reddit access avenue is a means to extricate Devs from the (necessary and rational) restrictions of this board.

Its a way for players to subvert and influence Devs on a 3rd party platform without the requirements of identification or rules present here.

They tempt the Devs out with candy, invite them into their Reddit truck so to have their way with them.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#48 - 2017-02-06 18:26:06 UTC
Not that I necessarily agree, but I enjoyed the analogy.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#49 - 2017-02-06 20:01:34 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Sweet Adamas wrote:
1. Remember when mintchiplol was made a Dev.

I wasn't playing EVE at the time, but I did read quite about it afterwards... but you're right. A lot of the good-natured jabs and poking fun at others' expense just wouldn't happen now. Stick meet a**...

CCP went overboard with the bans over that topic. You'd get a permanent forum ban for even mentioning mintchip. People obviously don't want to get their characters banned, and so I guess the moderation has had a freezing effect on the forums.

Personally I'd just say as long as you are not inciting violence or generally being offensive for the sake of being offensive, then you should be allowed to post whatever you want (as long as it is in the relevant thread/section).

Also what is the BS with not being able to link KMs.

Still the forums are better that reddit which is just full of absolute rubbish apart from a couple of good posts. And anything controversial or against the groupthink will get downvoted into oblivion.
CCP Falcon
#50 - 2017-02-06 21:31:53 UTC
Hey Guys Big smile

Thanks for the comments, it's nice to know there's still a sizeable amount of people who care about the health of the forums, for sure.

We're actually in the middle of testing an entirely new forum system with the assistance of our Volunteer team, and we'll more than likely be looking to roll it out somewhere toward the summer Smile

The rollout of these forums is going to include a complete rewrite of the forum rules (relaxing quite a few of them), re-organizing our forum categories and the introduction of a new mandate for ISD in terms of how moderation is carried out, as well as a few other things that the community team will be blogging about in the not too distant future (more than likely soon after Fanfest, which happens in April).

The idea will be to promote more open and direct (but civil) discussion, and give the community a more relaxed place to talk about spaceships P

We'll have more information in the near future <3

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
Ilan Ardishapur
Purity of the Throne
#51 - 2017-02-06 21:35:05 UTC
Great news. Though I hope you don't lax the IGS rules to much.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#52 - 2017-02-06 21:35:30 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
We'll have more information in the near future <3

Will we be seeing more of the friendly, smiling devs from CCP? Big smile

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Julianni Avala
Ishukone-Raata Corporate Investment Bank
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#53 - 2017-02-06 21:36:49 UTC
Ilan Ardishapur wrote:
Great news. Though I hope you don't lax the IGS rules to much.


This. It would be a shame to see doors opened to more of a mess than can already sometimes happen in IGS, even with current rules in place.

Chief Financial Officer, Head Diplomat

I-RED GalNet Site

--

((OOC: Journey to Purpose- Julianni's Character Blog, last updated 11.07))
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#54 - 2017-02-06 21:37:34 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
We'll have more information in the near future <3

Is this a Soon(TM) thing?

Just joking. Thanks for the post. Looking forward to seeing what rolls out.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2017-02-06 21:38:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
That doesn't sound terrible. I will patiently be waiting to verbally rip it to pieces once it's there.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#56 - 2017-02-06 21:55:06 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
near future <3


Thanks Big smile make the forums great again Roll
Kaleb Mynwarra
AirHogs
Hogs Collective
#57 - 2017-02-06 22:19:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaleb Mynwarra
CCP Falcon wrote:
Hey Guys Big smile

Thanks for the comments, it's nice to know there's still a sizeable amount of people who care about the health of the forums, for sure.

We're actually in the middle of testing an entirely new forum system with the assistance of our Volunteer team, and we'll more than likely be looking to roll it out somewhere toward the summer Smile

The rollout of these forums is going to include a complete rewrite of the forum rules (relaxing quite a few of them), re-organizing our forum categories and the introduction of a new mandate for ISD in terms of how moderation is carried out, as well as a few other things that the community team will be blogging about in the not too distant future (more than likely soon after Fanfest, which happens in April).

The idea will be to promote more open and direct (but civil) discussion, and give the community a more relaxed place to talk about spaceships P

We'll have more information in the near future <3


Thanks for the fast update Falcon ! Never would have expected such a fast response . I'll be looking out for the changes :)

"All right, everybody, just calm down" - Space Ghost

"For 800 years ...." - some little green man
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#58 - 2017-02-06 23:18:02 UTC
What really makes a forum fun is the differences of opinion that get exposed and argued out. Whatever moderation the new forums have, they should be open to potentially heated discussions where opinions clash. Eve has always been a world where different player groups come into conflict. I'd suggest dropping the shop front mentality in favour of a break room / coffee corner type vibe.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Leahzon
Swamp Donkey's United
#59 - 2017-02-07 02:30:13 UTC
It's kind of hard to have real discussions when most of the threads end up locked in a matter of hours. I think the discussion has shifted to other sites.

To put some perspective into the thread locking epidemic, last night almost a third of the non-sticky threads on the first page of General Discussion were locked.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#60 - 2017-02-07 03:57:58 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Neuntausend wrote:
Well, I suppose discussing the forum moderation is prohibited, so this thread may not last long. But I agree. This thread would not have made it to 7 pages nowadays.

As for your question: Because the drama, name calling, alt posting and pure gold that was the forum of old has now become impossible here, the real action has moved to r/eve, much to my dismay.


They don't post the gems they used to.


I saw Lady Spank in that old thread Baltec, she promised my first spanking would be free.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie