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There is no shop front.
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Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#1 - 2017-01-31 02:16:16 UTC
I'm a retail therapist. When dealing with customers I want their cash, in return they get an emotional connection and some sort of merchandise they didn't really need.

I prefer to do this as quickly as possible, because I'm only good at short term relationships. Customers like it that way though, because their time is fleeting.

What's always made me wonder though is how virtual shops are built as vending machines.

Sure, places like this lovely forum are called shop fronts, and efforts are made to fill them full of locked threads and moved threads in order to make them appear tidy.

But you can't actually buy anything here. So it's not really a shop front is it?

And in the old Roman sense of the word "forum" it's not really a forum. Sure we can advertise stuff here, but that's mainly player to player scams, not CCP trying to make an honest dollar.

One would think that selling virtual goods would be easy. There is no transport cost. There is no need for staff to be highly groomed, they can sit there in underwear and sell stuff.

But still, there is no shop front.

There is player support, but that's only for when things go wrong.

If you took some money into player support and told them you wanted to spend a hundred dollars, they wouldn't know what to do with you, except point you to the automated vending machine. Or possibly the EVE shop for T-shirts. And maybe tell you about special offers some time in a vague future, that usually ties in with when US holidays occur.

The best part of a shop front is that customers can ask you for stuff, and you get to know what to stock.

Vending machines don't do that.

Mind you shop owners can fail to do that too.

~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2 - 2017-01-31 02:22:36 UTC
Hir Miriel wrote:
What's always made me wonder though is how virtual shops are built as vending machines.

Vending machines don't need to sleep.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#3 - 2017-01-31 03:49:33 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Hir Miriel wrote:
What's always made me wonder though is how virtual shops are built as vending machines.

Vending machines don't need to sleep.

Vending machines are extremely patient with your indecision.

Vending machines also operate outside of business hours.

And there's no queuing customers to hassle you to hurry up.
Emo Phase
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2017-01-31 03:57:55 UTC
and the point of this post is...?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#5 - 2017-01-31 04:34:03 UTC
Emo Phase wrote:
and the point of this post is...?

If you figure it out let me know...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#6 - 2017-01-31 04:49:36 UTC
Hir Miriel wrote:
I prefer to do this as quickly as possible, because I'm only good at short term relationships.



Well let me explain, you sad commercial mechanism, that online forums allow people to vent their opinions, ask questions and discuss issues of all types in a manner not unfamiliar to social beings. If you look everywhere for the dollar in every interaction life as a human will forever be a perplexing and awkward adventure, as money is something societies use rather than social interaction being something that commerce uses.
Wishing you the best of luck with everything.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2017-01-31 10:22:54 UTC
Hir Miriel wrote:


And in the old Roman sense of the word "forum" it's not really a forum. Sure we can advertise stuff here, but that's mainly player to player scams, not CCP trying to make an honest dollar.





Forums can not be used for scams. They can be misused for scams, but your threads and any scam trades made on the forums will be concorded. So that part of your, rant? It seems like a rant, is discounted.
Cristl
#8 - 2017-01-31 11:56:29 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Emo Phase wrote:
and the point of this post is...?

If you figure it out let me know...

Yeah, stick me on the mailing list too, please.
Tuttomenui II wrote:
Forums can not be used for scams. They can be misused for scams, but your threads and any scam trades made on the forums will be concorded. So that part of your, rant? It seems like a rant, is discounted.

Loads of threads have been scams, they are definitely allowed. Some exceptions: scamming on the character bazaar or during charity drives. But overall - start your own Ponzi scheme and watch the ISK flow in.
Maekchu
Doomheim
#9 - 2017-01-31 12:42:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Maekchu
Hir Miriel wrote:
I'm a retail therapist. When dealing with customers I want their cash, in return they get an emotional connection and some sort of merchandise they didn't really need.

Sounds like you are a scam IRL.

As for a "store front":

- for in-game items you have the in-game market.
- for IRL merchandise CCP have their EvE store.

Honestly. I am still confused about what your post is really getting at. You seem to be mixing in-game and IRL stuff.

Edit: Think I'm maybe understanding a bit more what you are getting at.

The forums have a specific section for sell orders https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=278.
But again, most items will be sold just fine on the in-game market. So there is no need for CCP to have some sort of "store front" for traders. Additionally, it is not the job of CCP to create that. If you are an industrialist that specialize in building/selling stuff, then it is your own job to create advertisement for your services. How you do it, is your own decision. But it is definitely not CCPs job to create this. They gave you the tools to sell your stuff in-game. It is your own job to get the word around.
Thomas Lot
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2017-01-31 12:51:47 UTC
Wow, my patience is really limited today. I needed a tl;dr summary even for that little bit of nonsense.

This doesn't bode well for my students today.
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#11 - 2017-02-01 19:23:45 UTC
I am not surprised that people don't understand this thread, making money is a complicated issue, and people don't want to read more than a STOP sign.

Not really sure why I bother with this type of forum any more, old habits I guess.

If I simplify it, it becomes too simple and if I expound on the issues people get lost.

But for the lost sheep I'll boil the issue down.

Vending machines aren't good at sales because there is no emotional interaction.

Now, go look at every advertisment for a car. I pick cars because it's a large financial transaction, and you would expect everyone to be very rational, conduct due diligence, and do thorough cost/benefit analysis.

But we don't.

Car ads aim at emotion. At being free, at being a kid again. And we buy cars based on that.

Now...

Why does CCP have player support? What do they do?

They fix broken things.

Why pay people to fix things, and not pay people to sell things?

And then people wonder why MMOs, a whole business designed around social interaction, experience down turns.

Where is the forum sales rep for CCP?

Where is the CCP sales guy who can hook you up if you want to buy game time? Or want to find out about buying SKINS?

No where.

All that exists are some players who will point you to the vending machine. If they read your post, and if they care, and if they don't feel like calling you a carebear, who won't last in EVE because it's a tough manly game, while they flex their betterness.

Because that's the problem with relying on players volunteering to help people, volunteers still get paid, one way or the other.

Too Long, I Do Not Read Well; CCP should have a sales guy selling stuff, it would help them make money from sales.

~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~
Pix Severus
Empty You
#12 - 2017-02-01 20:25:03 UTC
I avoid unnecessary interaction when shopping, as it usually involves someone trying to sell me something I don't need or want. I don't watch advertisements, I completely ignore them, if I need or want something I research the best product based on price/performance, and then buy it. No messing around, no hassle.

Vending machines suit me just fine.

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide
Kazual Jayde
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2017-02-01 22:23:54 UTC
They have salesmen, but Mitch and Murray won't give them the good leads.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#14 - 2017-02-01 22:44:55 UTC
Emo Phase wrote:
and the point of this post is...?

Stealth WiS thread.

Give us shop fronts that traders sell their stuff through, so the market is driven not only by what materials available, but also when they are available.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#15 - 2017-02-02 00:52:32 UTC
Hir Miriel wrote:
I am not surprised that people don't understand this thread, making money is a complicated issue, and people don't want to read more than a STOP sign.

Not really sure why I bother with this type of forum any more, old habits I guess.

If I simplify it, it becomes too simple and if I expound on the issues people get lost.

But for the lost sheep I'll boil the issue down.

Vending machines aren't good at sales because there is no emotional interaction.

Now, go look at every advertisment for a car. I pick cars because it's a large financial transaction, and you would expect everyone to be very rational, conduct due diligence, and do thorough cost/benefit analysis.

But we don't.

Car ads aim at emotion. At being free, at being a kid again. And we buy cars based on that.

Now...

Why does CCP have player support? What do they do?

They fix broken things.

Why pay people to fix things, and not pay people to sell things?

And then people wonder why MMOs, a whole business designed around social interaction, experience down turns.

Where is the forum sales rep for CCP?

Where is the CCP sales guy who can hook you up if you want to buy game time? Or want to find out about buying SKINS?

No where.

All that exists are some players who will point you to the vending machine. If they read your post, and if they care, and if they don't feel like calling you a carebear, who won't last in EVE because it's a tough manly game, while they flex their betterness.

Because that's the problem with relying on players volunteering to help people, volunteers still get paid, one way or the other.

Too Long, I Do Not Read Well; CCP should have a sales guy selling stuff, it would help them make money from sales.

OP, I don't think you understand the psychology of the Eve player. Your sales ideas are for a different type of consumer. They're wholy inappropriate here.

The best way for a business to lose me as a customer is by trying to appeal to my emotion. I travel by public transport because it's the economical choice. I am very much a "I'm fine, just browsing, I'll come ask you a question if I have one" sort of person. Thankfully most sales staff are pretty savvy and respect that and give me a wide berth once I ask.

If CCP started hanging about trying to sell me stuff on the forum, I'd very quickly stop coming to the forum. The instant I saw the Skin sales notification in the in-game notifications, I docked up and found a way to disable it.


I don't like shop-fronts.

Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#16 - 2017-02-02 01:08:09 UTC
I fully expect forum users to be perfectly happy with the current arrangements. People who were unhappy with forums have gone away a long time ago, to galaxies far far away.

Most forums bubble down over time to little groups of people saying the same things to each other.

It's cosy because it's all the same, it's almost as if change doesn't exist.

That's even the case with people having the same enemies. It's a cosy enmity, a familiar embrace.

Meanwhile the world changes and the old groups diminish. And all the while they wonder why they diminish.

It's because people do hate change, even though change is the only thing that really exists.

I'm suggesting a small change.

To create a shopkeeper, so that people don't wander into an empty shop, and so that people can ask to buy things, and therefore become customers.

Right now people wander into these forums and there is no barkeep at the cantina as the newcomers burst in; only grumpy moisture farmers huddled around their tables looking at the newcomers in surly silence.

Here is what a shopkeeper could do...

1. Oh, you want a unique background for your avatar? I'll get an inhouse guy to whip one up, that will be $250.
2. So you want a Keepstar at your location right now? Okay, that will be $2500.
3. You want a unique ship styling? A borg cube? An X wing? A death star? That will be $500.

This opens up a market. Which is what marketing is about.

And the market is multi-dimensional. CCP can start commissioning art from players to sell to other players.
They could also do things like create an instant Keepstar and then place orders on the market for Keepstar parts as a way to balance the market, and even pay in a mix of currencies. Such as Aurum, isk, game time, Plex and whatever else is in EVE.

Very exciting and imaginative, and money to be made.

I'm sure the crotchety moisture farmers will hate it though.

~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~
mkint
#17 - 2017-02-02 01:36:25 UTC
@OP TL. DR.

Brevity is a virtue. Using a lot of words to say very little is self indulgent.

Ok, I did read the OP once. Still not sure there was ever a point in there anywhere.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2017-02-02 02:14:44 UTC
I also do not understand the point. What is OP's point anyway? Is he having an issue that the forum is being used as a medium of communication (and trolling) rather than a medium to sell something? Or is he having an issue with how the game isn't shoving merchandise at me? Or was it an issue with the New Eden Store? He did not actually elaborate exactly what has a problem of being not a shop front.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#19 - 2017-02-02 09:46:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Hir Miriel
Saying that you don't understand the point is of no point.

A failure to understand, shows lack of imagination, but is not a counter argument.

Because your ability to not understand the idea could be infinite.

I am absolutely certain that people in CCP have referred to these forums as a shop front.

And yet, there is absolutely no attempt to harness that. It seems that the analogy of a shop front is to keep the forums clean and uncluttered by people.

Because we all know people are messy and all businesses would run better without customers.

Or at least that's how the argument strikes me.

Business is messy because you are doing things, every customer is unique, wants different things and will pay different amounts.

If your business is busy that is.

Think of this forum as a coffee shop. They are essentially the same thing.

Both are places where people gather to socialise, except the coffee shop makes money by selling a short term virtual experience. A hit of coffee with an artful drawing in the latte.

Where is the barista for EVE?

I want to spend $5 on something EVE right now.

Or should I go down to my coffee shop?

Alternatively how do I tip that entertaining poster on the forums, like I can with the busker at the coffee shop. Or as I can do with Reddit. Reddit is not my sort of place, but I give that real/virtual example in order to perhaps help people understand where this little coffee shop of EVE could go.

Come stand with me outside and let's look at this place.

Sure this battered forum has seen better days and hasn't been painted since the 1990s, but still people come here. Sure they may be poor and wear patched clothing, but still, every so often you can see that sparkle in their eyes as they talk of the glory days of space.

Let's make a coffee shop in space.

~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~
Kazual Jayde
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2017-02-02 10:10:57 UTC
Coffee shops are for closers.
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