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[Feedback Request] Custom probe formation in the scanning system

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Kagi Anzomi
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#21 - 2016-12-16 11:22:23 UTC
1. I use the standard formations most of the time, I'd say 94% pinpoint, 5% spread, and 1% custom.

2. The few times the defaults aren't good enough, I normally only need to move the probes inward a bit from the pinpoint formation. Occasionally I'll drag probes to weird places to cover a certain set of planets for combat scanning, but that varies by system.

3. I only use a different formation when I don't have quite enough probe strength to get 100% with pinpoint, or when spread doesn't adequately cover parts of a system.

4. Primarily combat scanning. I can find most signatures with a pinpoint scan at shortest range, but ships tend to be trickier. In some systems I need clumps of probes on different celestials to see where someone is warping. After finding someone, certain ships like bastioned marauders can be nearly impossible get at 100%, so I occasionally have to bring probes closer together for those.


One other thing worth mentioning is that while I've never intentionally saved a custom formation, I have accidentally clicked the button many times, thinking it was button to launch a pinpoint formation.
CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#22 - 2016-12-16 11:39:23 UTC
light heaven wrote:
1. Do you use custom probe formations when scanning?
Pinpoint are used for most, but I do use a custom formations when It is hard to scan.

2. What formation do you use? Provide pictures if possible
See pic http://imgur.com/a/RblNF, just pull Spread formation closer, you will get it.

3. Why do you use a custom formation over the default spread or pinpoint formations?
For referenc, my scan char has full scan skills, full mid-virtue set, AQ-710 and AR-810. Which means my combat probe's base sensor strength is about 100 point. It is enough to scan combat ships, but is still hard to scan the old off grid booster T3s. I usually set start to scan target by Pinpoint formation and scan range is 8 au or 16 au. Move probe near target and use smaller scan range. I always got 100% after 2 or 3 analyze. When scan range is 0.5 AU and results is larger than 90%, I will use custom formation to scan. It always result 100% to me. In my experience custom formation could always get better result than Pinpoint formation when target is at same horizon.

4. Do you use custom formations for combat scanning, exploration or both?
I only use custom formations for combat scanning. Cause my core probe's base sensor strength is about 200 point which is very easy to scan all cosmic signals.


Your picture does not appear to work :( but I get what you mean.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters
CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#23 - 2016-12-16 11:45:55 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
light heaven wrote:
1. Do you use custom probe formations when scanning?
Pinpoint are used for most, but I do use a custom formations when It is hard to scan.

2. What formation do you use? Provide pictures if possible
See pic http://imgur.com/a/RblNF, just pull Spread formation closer, you will get it.

3. Why do you use a custom formation over the default spread or pinpoint formations?
For referenc, my scan char has full scan skills, full mid-virtue set, AQ-710 and AR-810. Which means my combat probe's base sensor strength is about 100 point. It is enough to scan combat ships, but is still hard to scan the old off grid booster T3s. I usually set start to scan target by Pinpoint formation and scan range is 8 au or 16 au. Move probe near target and use smaller scan range. I always got 100% after 2 or 3 analyze. When scan range is 0.5 AU and results is larger than 90%, I will use custom formation to scan. It always result 100% to me. In my experience custom formation could always get better result than Pinpoint formation when target is at same horizon.

4. Do you use custom formations for combat scanning, exploration or both?
I only use custom formations for combat scanning. Cause my core probe's base sensor strength is about 200 point which is very easy to scan all cosmic signals.


Your picture does not appear to work :( but I get what you mean.


Ah I see, there is a comma at the end of the link, I got it now.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2016-12-16 13:28:42 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Yes, I was using custom formations for faster results while I was not max skilled for all kind of sigs. The formation contains 4 narrow probes and 4 wide probes, pinpoint like but in a plane, 4xformation centered, overlapping and 2 steps apart (e.g. 2AU+8AU, or 4AU+16AU). Today I'm just lazy and use pinpoint 95% of the time (except Thera).

BTW: I'm not using the beta because: lack of probe handling accuracy (speed of probing), performance. Both are showstoppers and not some inconvenience.


Interesting, will take a look.

So how do you change the size of the probes in this example?

Resizing the whole formation like with the standard ones, So I start with the 4AU+16AU (the actual saved preset), then resize to 2+8, and so on down (or skip one step).

I'm my own NPC alt.
CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#25 - 2016-12-16 13:40:04 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
CCP Claymore wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Yes, I was using custom formations for faster results while I was not max skilled for all kind of sigs. The formation contains 4 narrow probes and 4 wide probes, pinpoint like but in a plane, 4xformation centered, overlapping and 2 steps apart (e.g. 2AU+8AU, or 4AU+16AU). Today I'm just lazy and use pinpoint 95% of the time (except Thera).

BTW: I'm not using the beta because: lack of probe handling accuracy (speed of probing), performance. Both are showstoppers and not some inconvenience.


Interesting, will take a look.

So how do you change the size of the probes in this example?

Resizing the whole formation like with the standard ones, So I start with the 4AU+16AU (the actual saved preset), then resize to 2+8, and so on down (or skip one step).


But when you are setting up initially, how would you do it? Through the probes in the scanner window, or in the system map?

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#26 - 2016-12-16 14:14:56 UTC
1. Kind of. I start every scanning with a modified Pinpoint formation. 8 AU instead of 16, because the big radius is useless in most scenarios outside of combat probing. Spread formation is pointless in my opinion because you do not need to scout a system any longer to see if there are signatures in the first place.

2. To start off a 8 AU Pinpoint. Depending in signature or ship difficulty, I draw that pinpoint closer together, in some cases so close that the handles appear to be 1 probe.

3. Because they are necessary. In particular Sleeper Caches require the 3 dimensional placement of probes placed accurately around their signature to be able to scan them. Variations of pinpoint also allow for quick coverage of surroundings of celestials and oftentimes near immediate narrowing down the signature to a dot instead of just a smaller sphere.

4. Custom pinpoint as described above for all scanning scenarios.

By the way, why is this thread not mentioned in the Launcher? I just learned about if from the weekly news by chance. This kind of feedback thread should be put into the launcher's news scroll or at least the notification bubble so that more people become aware of it.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
MuraSaki Siki
ChuangShi
Fraternity.
#27 - 2016-12-16 14:21:44 UTC
1. Do you use custom probe formations when scanning?
only for exploration, as i havent been combat role

2. What formation do you use? Provide pictures if possible
http://i.imgur.com/qPOkTdg.png

a octahedrone with 6 probe at vertexes, and the 7th probe is placed at the centre with reduced size
(for example, 6 vertex probe 4AU, 7th at centre 2AU)

3. Why do you use a custom formation over the default spread or pinpoint formations?
i have probed since 2014, before the odyssey patches, and i used to using my own formation
coz the centre probe give a better result, and the 6 vertex probe still covering the scanning area.

4. Do you use custom formations for combat scanning, exploration or both?
exploration
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#28 - 2016-12-16 15:45:22 UTC
I use a single custom formation of 6 probes in an octahedral formation for everything.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#29 - 2016-12-16 18:56:23 UTC
I use a custom formation that is a 'tighter' version of the standard pinpoint formation to hit some of the sleeper sigs.
darkezero
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#30 - 2016-12-16 19:23:13 UTC  |  Edited by: darkezero
CCP Claymore wrote:

1. Do you use custom probe formations when scanning?
2. What formation do you use? Provide pictures if possible
3. Why do you use a custom formation over the default spread or pinpoint formations?
4. Do you use custom formations for combat scanning, exploration or both?


1. Usually, no. I have custom formations for combat probing, and even that is used sparsely.
2. I have two, and it depends on the situation. the first is a flat (on the z-axis)octagon. the second is a cube with only a slight overlap in the center.
3. Searching for people who have deep safes (cube), and keeping the probes out of d-scan range (octagon). for the Octagon, both defaults have two probes in the center that adjust on the z-axis instead of the x and y-axes, which may put them in range of d-scan of the target . The Octagon seeks to start the search for the target without the probes being on d-scan. The Cube seeks to cover as large a volume of space as possible, usually outside the outermost planet, and well outside of d-scan of any celestials.
4. Combat.
Circumstantial Evidence
#31 - 2016-12-16 19:25:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Circumstantial Evidence
[edit: comment withdrawn]
Cade Windstalker
#32 - 2016-12-16 19:29:13 UTC
Can't currently respond with useful information right now, but could you sticky this thread so it's easier to find? I nearly missed it doing my morning check of the forums because it looked like an old thread someone had necro'd.
James Duadoulin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2016-12-16 22:34:42 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
Hey folks,

Team Psycho Sisters here with some questions.

1. Do you use custom probe formations when scanning?
2. What formation do you use? Provide pictures if possible
3. Why do you use a custom formation over the default spread or pinpoint formations?
4. Do you use custom formations for combat scanning, exploration or both?

We are asking because we would like to deal with the current state the scanning system is in where we have 2 systems and 1 is kind of in beta but not really but both systems have pros and cons and we are seeing about 50% usage across both of them.

Going off the feedback thread created by the CSM and the above reasons we have started taking a look at what needs to be done to address the primary player concerns, but we are also coming across areas of the feature that we do not have data on player usage such as, custom formations.

Please try and keep this focused on custom formations. We have gathered the other feedback from forums and other sources, but there are some gray areas we would like some more information from you all on.

So just custom formations for now, as required we will make new threads for other specific areas.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Team Psycho Sisters.


I love the new scanner interface even if it is only for the use of the short cut keys. they make things so much faster and smoother.

1. I have skills level 4 haven't maxed out pinpointing and time skills yet. I only ever use a custom formation for sleeper sites. typically at my skill level I can get them just by using control+mousewheel to tighten the formation up. and that is all I do to get them. of course if I were not scanning in a bonused ship with scanning rigs and virtue implants then I would have to do that more often.

so my custom formation to get sleeper sites is just an ever tightening ball of probes.

3 the only reason I do that is to up scan strength.

4 only explorer scanning I never combat scan much.

I think the current new scanning system is fine. but if you wanted to add in the ability to make your own custom formations and save it I'm sure some players would use it.

I think the thing that makes the most difference in scanning time for me (once you get max or nearly max skills) is the short cuts.
I typically can do a k-space system in 3-5 minutes depending on the number or sigs.
I never get in a hurry when I'm exploring unless someone is in local and I see probes out.

The other day a guy who was blue to me entered system at the same time as me and we both put out probes. I was already in the first relic site and half way done with it before he even warped in.

that's been my experience YMMV
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2016-12-17 08:03:56 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
CCP Claymore wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Yes, I was using custom formations for faster results while I was not max skilled for all kind of sigs. The formation contains 4 narrow probes and 4 wide probes, pinpoint like but in a plane, 4xformation centered, overlapping and 2 steps apart (e.g. 2AU+8AU, or 4AU+16AU). Today I'm just lazy and use pinpoint 95% of the time (except Thera).

BTW: I'm not using the beta because: lack of probe handling accuracy (speed of probing), performance. Both are showstoppers and not some inconvenience.


Interesting, will take a look.

So how do you change the size of the probes in this example?

Resizing the whole formation like with the standard ones, So I start with the 4AU+16AU (the actual saved preset), then resize to 2+8, and so on down (or skip one step).


But when you are setting up initially, how would you do it? Through the probes in the scanner window, or in the system map?

What I did the first time iirc, I started the pinpoint formation with system map on fullscreen (I don't use the new scan interface, nor the new map), then set the size of the probes individually within the probe window (4 at 4AU + 4 at 16AU) and dragged them into position with mouse+keyboard in the map until satisfied, then saved this formation for further use. When scanning, I use the button to launch the custom formation, and the rest is mouse+keyboard like with the inbuilt formations. Does this answer your question?

I'm my own NPC alt.
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#35 - 2016-12-17 16:35:27 UTC
Yes, I use an extremely tightly collected custom formation for signatures I cannot 100% at 0.25 AU.

While you're at it, can you make Pinpoint the default formation?

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
#36 - 2016-12-19 04:06:46 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
While you're at it, can you make Pinpoint the default formation?


I rarely use the spread formation. Having the pinpoint as default would be very helpful.

I am a bit lazy in my scanning so I don't use custom formations. However, if I had a custom formation set up, adding it as a personal preset would be nice. Being able to share it, as with overview settings, would be doubly nice.

As an aside: the map icons for signatures really need to be brighter - beta needs the same brightness as in the traditional map.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2016-12-19 15:12:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Qvar Dar'Zanar
Wormhole dweller here.

First, I have to say that you'll have to pry the old map+scanner out of my cold, dead hands. I just can't stand the new ones. Although I apreciate that you try hard to improve them. I supose there's no evil in having both, and let everybody decide which one they like best.

Regarding custom probe formations... I just use the pin-point default one but with a range of 8 AU to begin with the scanning, then change to the premade pinpoint one and keep reducing the range.

edit: Pinpoint default formation should be sliiiightly tighter to ensure that sigs are covered by at least 2 probes always. Spread is mostly useless because the on-board scanner already tells you pretty much the same without wasting a scan. An 8 AU with the same formation as Spread an slightly closer probes would be of more use than a 16 AU one.

Also, I always reduce the radius through dragging the border of the probes, instead of from the scanner window, because that automatically brings the probes together. Quite useful.

I mostly do relic/data scanning btw. Only seldom combat scanning.
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
#38 - 2016-12-19 20:59:43 UTC
It would be nice to be able to centre the probes around celestial with a right click centre.

I get when you are trying to probe down a site, there is no central large object so you should have to move them around yourself.

But say for example the SUN. (or a gate or a planet) Like come on we should be able to center the probes with a click or two around large celestials or indestructible objects, if its big enough to be on the map without probing it down we should be able to center around it with a click. If we can right click warp to it, why not center.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#39 - 2016-12-20 01:43:13 UTC
My first formation for probing the system I am in is always 8AU pinpoint and then down in size and for combat probing I first use the 16AU spread, then go back to pinpoint.

I saw the new map once and found the off button an hour later, sorry.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

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Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#40 - 2016-12-20 11:52:20 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
Hey folks,

Team Psycho Sisters here with some questions.

1. Do you use custom probe formations when scanning?
2. What formation do you use? Provide pictures if possible
3. Why do you use a custom formation over the default spread or pinpoint formations?
4. Do you use custom formations for combat scanning, exploration or both?

We are asking because we would like to deal with the current state the scanning system is in where we have 2 systems and 1 is kind of in beta but not really but both systems have pros and cons and we are seeing about 50% usage across both of them.

Going off the feedback thread created by the CSM and the above reasons we have started taking a look at what needs to be done to address the primary player concerns, but we are also coming across areas of the feature that we do not have data on player usage such as, custom formations.

Please try and keep this focused on custom formations. We have gathered the other feedback from forums and other sources, but there are some gray areas we would like some more information from you all on.

So just custom formations for now, as required we will make new threads for other specific areas.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Team Psycho Sisters.



1. Yes, but I only have like 1-2 I use over and over again. Sometimes I still use the default options, though.
2. They're like the default options, just with some probes moved or AU-range adjusted for my comfort.
3. Comfort. (Sometimes I still use the defaults!)
4. Both.
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