Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I disagree.
Miners need combat pilots both directly and indirectly.
Combat pilots do not directly need miners in highsec.

When have you ever needed a miner in highsec? i.e. the pilot, not their goods.

And a maulus.

Who even cares if you lose the lot? it'll take you a couple of hours to earn it back just mining veld. You might even enjoy it.

Whoa! You're a highsec miner?
Im incredibly shocked that your toon is in a corp that has only 1 member and 0 War History!
/sarcasm...

You're kinda lending to the point I was making.

The whole point of my initial post in this thread is the difficulty of miners being able to use the corp system to create an industry corp, especially when starting out.
That difficulty is due to wardecs.

Even well established indy corps like red frog keep indy toons out of corp... and bake things like this into the description:


New indy player experience:
We are glad you want to join our highsec indy corp!
You have elected to create an industry type character. Unlike the overwhelming majority of mmos where social corp/guild features come standard, you need to use one of your character slots to circumvent unbalanced game mechanics in order to use these corporate features. Just let me know the name of the new character you create!

Sigh... a QoL change for indy corps would be nice.

That is great...I love that and will use that phrase from now on.

The reason it seems unbalanced is because it is unbalanced.

You keep talking about leadership being the issue. Ineffective leadership of industry corps is a symptom of the unbalanced mechanic. You can't have a good leader without good communication, and the strategies employed to circumvent the unbalanced system diminish the quality of the indy corp's in-game communication resources. No matter if they decide to circumvent the mechanic or try to work with it, they are at a disadvantage. This is poor and unbalanced design.

At what point would you hold a developer responsible for a poor design or implementation as opposed to blaming the user for not being resourceful enough? "Unbalanced Mechanics" doesnt necessarily mean "Impossible Mechanics"

I have already pointed out that if you circumvent the in-game mechanic, your in-game corp communications are limited. No one is saying that communication is not possible, but lack of in-game corp communication for a type of profession is unbalanced. If there is no advantage to corporate communications, why not scrap in-game corp communication altogether so that neither combat nor industry pilots have the option? If there is an advantage, why shouldn't highsec indy corps be allowed to benefit from it?

Good leadership is good leadership. Why is it so hard to make sure there is a way to keep corp members informed? Why is it so hard to set up voice comms, get a some sort of forums or the like? When a war dec comes along people should start working together to ensure that they are all on on the same page.

Have a war dec system set up--i.e. a system everyone can go to that is out of the way where stuff can still be done. And you really only need 1 OOC alt to keep things going. If you have 10 people in corp you have 30 slots for characters and only 1 needs to an OOC hauler who can take stuff to market for people, and bring back stuff they need to keep doing whatever it is they are doing.

Is it completely unreasonable to have people skilling up for certain ships. You want an industry corp...fine, why isn't everyone training for the procuror/skiff? Why not working drone skills. And are logistics ships completely being ignored by corp members....if so, kick their asses to the curb. That way when the war targets show up and you have a battle ball of 10 procurors/skiffs with 5 logistics ships chances are they'll be bunking off to find a softer and easier target. Get some tackle in there and they'll be leaving a few men down.

Yeah, paying a corporate tax sucks...unless it is for an SRP due to wars and losses. And if you have 10 guys in cheap fits yet still with decent dps you may quite possibly chase those war targets into station.

When I was in HS industry corps and had alts in those corps the problem was it was like herding cats. Everyone wanted to do their own thing and screw everyone else including the CEO who tried to provide some order, rules, and guidance. Those players are the problem. Get rid of them. When a war comes you have to put on your big boy pants. Those players who aren't on the same page...they are the problem. Literally kick them out.

Set up some caches of those cheap ships around HS. Have people install jump clones at those stations. When the **** hits the fan you have some pre-determined rally points where you can get a fleet up and running and go out and take the fight to them vs. just sitting there waiting to be a victim.

And why not look for allies? The wardeccers will dec dozens of corps and alliances. Contact them, see if any of them want to work with you. You can set up shared chat channels, voice comms, and work on fleet doctrines, determine who will be the FCs, etc. That is what happened with one of the industry corps my alts were in back in the day. We teamed up with another corporation and we repeatedly chased them back into station until they dropped both war decs because spinning ships sucks...and with us sitting outside station they couldn't even go after the other war targets they had. We literally ruined ALL their fun.

Live chat is not the only form of communication you can do with a corp. There is also corp mail, calendar, and corporate standings and even contracting to some extent.

Why are you so against indy folks being able to use corporations?

Corp Mail > Mailing Lists
Calendar > Appoint a person to send an in-game mail via the mailing list system to remind everyone
Corporate Standings > Perk of being in a corporation, but you can also have everyone take responsibility and do it on their own lists. Just send a mail out
Corporate Contracting > Perk of being in a corporation. Not part of communication.

edit: I should also mention that PvP corporations already do most of the above.

They have mailing lists for "trusted members" and/or to the leadership of outside corporations / alliances that they are friendly with.
They tend to have someone that sets the calendar and/or sends out mails to everyone on critical information and operations (and they also post such stuff on the "member only" 3rd party corporation / alliance forums).
They send out a list of "allies" and "blacklisted" players / corporations to everyone in case the Corporate Standings thingy is bugged (as it tends to be).


Seriously?


Just as people in a PvP corporation have to learn how to make money, do industry, buy stuff, move stuff, etc to make it function on a basic level... PvE and Indy players in corps need to learn how to survive and defend against threats to themselves and the corporation.

It goes both ways.

The problem is that the latter group don't bother with learning how to defend themselves. And they complain that they have to.
(Note: I hate how I have to perform industry, PvE, and logistics just so I can blow people up... but I learned to do it efficiently because it gets me to the playstyle I prefer... and that is what keeps me playing this game. It is the multi-faceted nature of it. Everyone is related to everything else and you cannot isolate one part from the other)



The issue you are describing is a player one. Not a mechanical one.

he isn't, in fact he is one of the few people who gives honest and best advice to newbros in how to survive and enjoy this game.

and i agree with him, leadership is what makes a corp., no amount of mechanics can save your corp if your leaders are dumb.