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Limit the amount of active War Decs for Alliances and Corps

Author
xMercyx
Vector Technology Integration
#1 - 2016-12-07 21:16:51 UTC
add some skill books to prevent what i think is the abuse of the war declaring system. what i mean by that is, the corps and alliances mass war dec-ing us tiny little corps with little to no restrictions. don't just add isk requirement, that's not enough. thanks for your 5 mins of time.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2016-12-07 21:18:12 UTC
xMercyx wrote:
add some skill books to prevent what i think is the abuse of the war declaring system. what i mean by that is, the corps and alliances mass war dec-ing us tiny little corps with little to no restrictions. don't just add isk requirement, that's not enough. thanks for your 5 mins of time.


It's not an abuse and mostly happen because the system itself is broken. Fixing the system is more important than duct taping one odd behavior and leaving the rest broken.

In short, no need to limit dec numbers.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2016-12-07 21:18:19 UTC
Why do you deserve to be functionally immune to wardecs from mercenary corps, and why is your corp worth more to the game than any of said merc groups?
Kara Hawke
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2016-12-07 22:05:27 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Why do you deserve to be functionally immune to wardecs from mercenary corps, and why is your corp worth more to the game than any of said merc groups?


It ruins the game and drives many people away. I've personally been a part of two corps that have dissolved from constant war decs by superior corps. People left or just stopped logging in when all the game became was sitting in station spinning your ship. So yes, if you want to still be playing the game in a few years, the smaller corps are more important to the game because eventually those players can get more involved in the game and pvp. The currrent system is completely broken, as it stands why even bother forcing corps to pay concord to keep wars active indefinitely, its penny's to large aggressive griefer corps.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2016-12-07 22:11:18 UTC
Kara Hawke wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Why do you deserve to be functionally immune to wardecs from mercenary corps, and why is your corp worth more to the game than any of said merc groups?


It ruins the game and drives many people away. I've personally been a part of two corps that have dissolved from constant war decs by superior corps. People left or just stopped logging in when all the game became was sitting in station spinning your ship. So yes, if you want to still be playing the game in a few years, the smaller corps are more important to the game because eventually those players can get more involved in the game and pvp. The currrent system is completely broken, as it stands why even bother forcing corps to pay concord to keep wars active indefinitely, its penny's to large aggressive griefer corps.


That isn't a problem with the game mechanics, that's a problem with the corp leadership.

This is a PVP centric game. Declaring war on a bunch of people is not griefing, it is a part of the game, and it always has been. (And hell. Wardecs aren't even hard to evade, especially now watchlists are gone. Just try not being in a market hub for a week, or use an alt for your jita runs like the rest of us have to do.)

And frankly, if people quit the game when they lose a ship or two to a wardec group instead of going somewhere else, finding a better corp, or learning how to fight back, they weren't going to stick around anyway.
Iain Cariaba
#6 - 2016-12-07 22:11:28 UTC
Kara Hawke wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Why do you deserve to be functionally immune to wardecs from mercenary corps, and why is your corp worth more to the game than any of said merc groups?


It ruins the game and drives many people away. I've personally been a part of two corps that have dissolved from constant war decs by superior corps. People left or just stopped logging in when all the game became was sitting in station spinning your ship. So yes, if you want to still be playing the game in a few years, the smaller corps are more important to the game because eventually those players can get more involved in the game and pvp. The currrent system is completely broken, as it stands why even bother forcing corps to pay concord to keep wars active indefinitely, its penny's to large aggressive griefer corps.

Roll

Given the vast amount of stuff to do in this game, the only ones responsible for those people doing nothing but ship spinning is themselves.

Think of a wardec as an opportunity to step outside your narrow little world and experience more that the game has to offer.
Kara Hawke
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2016-12-07 22:16:31 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Kara Hawke wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Why do you deserve to be functionally immune to wardecs from mercenary corps, and why is your corp worth more to the game than any of said merc groups?


It ruins the game and drives many people away. I've personally been a part of two corps that have dissolved from constant war decs by superior corps. People left or just stopped logging in when all the game became was sitting in station spinning your ship. So yes, if you want to still be playing the game in a few years, the smaller corps are more important to the game because eventually those players can get more involved in the game and pvp. The currrent system is completely broken, as it stands why even bother forcing corps to pay concord to keep wars active indefinitely, its penny's to large aggressive griefer corps.

Roll

Given the vast amount of stuff to do in this game, the only ones responsible for those people doing nothing but ship spinning is themselves.

Think of a wardec as an opportunity to step outside your narrow little world and experience more that the game has to offer.



I think you people fail to understand that there are some people who can contribute allot to the game that simply cannot defend themselves from some of these better geared, more experienced "merc" corps. There is no learning involved when one of them can absolutely decimate 3 newbies without breaking a sweat and then camp their stationfor days. Obviously EVE is very pvp focused, but why should that mean 9/10 people quitting the game shortly after starting it.

If you want this game to be around for another 10 years you're going to have to extend your very narrow view of the game and accept that EVE shouldn't appeal only to scammers and greifers.
Kara Hawke
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-12-07 22:21:58 UTC
Unless of course you're arguing that it's not a problem that these griefing corps have to war dec 10-15 corps just to get anyone to fight them...
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#9 - 2016-12-07 22:22:05 UTC
Kara Hawke wrote:

I think you people fail to understand that there are some people who can contribute allot to the game that simply cannot defend themselves from some of these better geared, more experienced "merc" corps. There is no learning involved when one of them can absolutely decimate 3 newbies without breaking a sweat and then camp their stationfor days. Obviously EVE is very pvp focused, but why should that mean 9/10 people quitting the game shortly after starting it.

If you want this game to be around for another 10 years you're going to have to extend your very narrow view of the game and accept that EVE shouldn't appeal only to scammers and greifers.

Mercs don't station camp people with no stuff randomly. They only do so because those people have been very very rude to someone with lots of money who is now responding.
Also you can just drop corp, move stations, set up a jump clone so you can't get perma camped and rejoin corp if you have to.

Normally all that happens in a War Dec is they camp the trade hubs, and if you advised your newbies to set a medical clone in a trade hub system, well..... you are the one at fault here.

So yes, some people can't 'defend themselves' from those Merc corps, they don't have the SP, Isk, or Guns to do so, but they can just go somewhere else and make it not worth chasing them.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2016-12-07 22:22:16 UTC
If they're camping a station containing three newbies for a week, why can said newbies not just set their clones back to their starting school stations, which can be done from any clone bay any time with no restrictions, fly somewhere else and continue to play the game in, get this, A DIFFERENT PLACE?
PopeUrban
El Expedicion
Flames of Exile
#11 - 2016-12-07 22:22:28 UTC  |  Edited by: PopeUrban
If you are getting constantly wardecced in your area of space, ******* move somewhere with more chill neighbors.

There is a LOT of space, and you can even build stations in systems that don't have them now. Including one-off hisec pockets in the middle of losec and null!

I assure you nobody is blanket deccing every corp in the game. They're blanket deccing corps that look profitable to shoot at and easy to find targets from. Wardecs are cheap but they aren't free. If you can't get a reasonable amount of content or ISK for the price of a dec it rapidly becomes a giant waste of money.
Kara Hawke
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2016-12-07 22:29:00 UTC
So it's ok that the defenders have to change how they play the game and go through the trouble of moving or removing roles and quiting the corporation, but we can't change how wars work because that will impact the merc corps gameplay. I see.

I think you've been playing too long to remember everything there is to learn in this game and being destroyed by wartargets because they don't understand how the game works is not incentive to stay.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2016-12-07 22:32:01 UTC
You've asked for mercs and wardeccers to have their playstyle entirely removed, we've suggested you actually react to thier actions and adapt your behaviour to suit your situation.

Which is another thing any group worth it's salt will do in this game.

How do you propose to learn anything about this game if your response to an action you perceive as unfair is to ask for that entire playstyle to be deleted?
Kara Hawke
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2016-12-07 22:42:28 UTC
I don't think I said anything about removing high sec war decs. In fact, I only commented on how broken the system is because it encourages greifing of newer players who don't pvp. There's very little incentives to join high sec player corporations which is why personally 3 of my 4 characters are in a npc corporations. So in fact, mercs play style is what's killing their play style.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#15 - 2016-12-07 23:07:03 UTC
Kara Hawke wrote:
I don't think I said anything about removing high sec war decs. In fact, I only commented on how broken the system is because it encourages greifing of newer players who don't pvp. There's very little incentives to join high sec player corporations which is why personally 3 of my 4 characters are in a npc corporations. So in fact, mercs play style is what's killing their play style.

Even if War Decs were limited 3 out of 4 of your characters would still be in NPC corps.
Because the only real reason for a high sec corp is Bounty/Mission tax evasion.

The problem you are trying to solve is not war dec mechanics but corp mechanics.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2016-12-07 23:14:11 UTC
Kara Hawke wrote:
I don't think I said anything about removing high sec war decs. In fact, I only commented on how broken the system is because it encourages greifing of newer players who don't pvp. There's very little incentives to join high sec player corporations which is why personally 3 of my 4 characters are in a npc corporations. So in fact, mercs play style is what's killing their play style.


Limiting these corps to a handful of decs limits the number of targets massively, which is going to essentially delete the merc playstyle. What's the point if you can only have half a dozen targets? You'd dec goons, test, nc., brave and PH, and that'd be your lot.

Wardecs are not griefing. PVP is not griefing. I have been under wardecs pretty much constantly for several years. I do not think this is griefing at all.

There is no way to not PVP in this game, everything is competitive by nature. People who are so afraid of losses that they never leave NPC corps are not going to be the kind of people who stick around for very long in this kind of game. Why should they be pandered to like this?

Why is your flat out refusal to adapt to a hostile environment worth the removal of said environment?
PopeUrban
El Expedicion
Flames of Exile
#17 - 2016-12-07 23:25:02 UTC  |  Edited by: PopeUrban
Kara Hawke wrote:
I don't think I said anything about removing high sec war decs. In fact, I only commented on how broken the system is because it encourages greifing of newer players who don't pvp. There's very little incentives to join high sec player corporations which is why personally 3 of my 4 characters are in a npc corporations. So in fact, mercs play style is what's killing their play style.


This is not griefing.

According to CCP, undocking is consent to PVP. This is the very reason why wardecs exist, and why CONCORD patrols empire space rather than simply forcing safeties to green. Hisec is not, nor was it ever intended to be completely safe. It is inteded to be safER than low and null.

There is no such thing as "players who don't PvP" in EVE. Only players who prefer to avoid it when possible. If you play EVE, and you use spaceships, you are entering a PvP space.

Your problem is you are not willing to do what is required of you to avoid PvP.
Kara Hawke
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2016-12-07 23:59:19 UTC
Apparently im not getting my point across. It is a problem because this game has a higher turnover rate than McDonalds. CCP may not consider indefinite and unlimited war decs griefing but expecting people who can barely understand the games mechanics to properly organize or fight back against vets who have been playing for years with superior ships is just ignorant. The alpha surge is already dying down. Unless CCP does something to address broken highsec and encourage people to stick around without buying plex to compensate for constant losses it's going to drop to pre expansion numbers and you people will have even less people to dec.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2016-12-08 00:04:54 UTC
Why do you think wardecs of all things is what drive people away, and what makes you think that people who are incapable of adapting their playstyle to deal with a hostile environment would continue to play a game that is essentially one giant hostile environment?

Perhaps your newbie friends should try joining a real corp until they learnt he mechanics? eve uni is a good (and at least mostly neutral) choice, iirc.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#20 - 2016-12-08 01:11:48 UTC
Kara Hawke wrote:
Apparently im not getting my point across. It is a problem because this game has a higher turnover rate than McDonalds. CCP may not consider indefinite and unlimited war decs griefing but expecting people who can barely understand the games mechanics to properly organize or fight back against vets who have been playing for years with superior ships is just ignorant. The alpha surge is already dying down. Unless CCP does something to address broken highsec and encourage people to stick around without buying plex to compensate for constant losses it's going to drop to pre expansion numbers and you people will have even less people to dec.

People who barely understand the game mechanics shouldn't be trying to run a corp that does something to attract rthe attention of Pirat/etc. They only target juicy options or people who insult them, and it's rare they target someone for more than a week other than the obvious big old groups.

If you've evidence of them deliberately targeting new players to grief them, send it to CCP, don't whinge here about something that is already against the rules. Otherwise work out why you are doing so badly.
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