EVE Information Portal

I completely agree with the elimination of 6/7 burst fits. However...
If CSs were given back the 3 bursts allowed the max bursts they could fit with rigs would be 5. I still think I like this better, not because I would ever use such a fit, but because without rigs I want to have to make a choice between 3 bursts for max fleet assist or a full rack or guns. As it stands EVERY CS will fit a full rack of guns and two bursts. Only fail-fits will use a rig slot and drop a gun just for that 3rd burst. No question. And that is boring.

While there's entitlement enough to go around, "I feel I deserve it," isn't really that compelling of an argument, even from multiple people.

As soon as they opened that door, they would go from the very neat criteria for reimbursement that currently exists to an unending clusterfuck of arguments over which changes are significantly "radical" to warrant it.

It's a living ruleset, you invest time into it at your own risk, accept it and move on.

It's really simple criteria.

If the skill still does something, it doesn't get reimbursed.

The skill has to be removed wholesale for reimbursement to occur, such as with the learning skills that used to exist.



There have been hefty overhauls of mechanics before. Fozzie Sov, Jump Fatigue, Crius industry, Odyssey scanning/hacking, etc.

They were just examples of large changes that have been made. However, that aside...




Keep this in mind, because...



...All of these changes that you don't think should have warranted reimbursement... had cries for reimbursement. And that's why the policy is actually pretty wise.

Jump fatigue changes meant jump skills should be reimbursed.

Crius industry changed a few skills from requirements to build certain things to small time modifiers. Again, cries for reimbursement.

Max scanning skills were more important pre-odyssey, and if you go back and read through the threads from then, I guarantee you will find people asking for reimbursement.

If they ever caved on the standing policy, they would have to deal with this "radical enough" or "not radical enough" business for every change that followed. It's not happening.

Skill extractors and Injectors are a joke. Higher SP characters get shafted for only bob knows why. There's absolutely NO reason why anyone with 80mil SP should use one. Might as well restrict it to less than 20mil SP because, in its current state, it's a slap to the face for older players that tend to have higher SP characters.

What do the new fighter skills (which affected way more than just super pilots) have to do with leadership skills that have been made all but redundant by CCP?

And this is not the only time this has happened. CCP's rule about SP reimbursement is pretty clear. You only get it if they remove the skill from the game. The leadership skills remain in game and they do have a legitimate use. If you choose to no longer use them, that's really not CCP's issue.

Thanks for this fozzie, i couldnt wait for ascension and went out roaming with self-linked sleipnir just now grabbing some easy kills from people stunned by my glorious girth. Im fully aboard and looking forward to the bright future shiny with command bursts.

I do have to agree with this.

Though this char has full Leadership and intends to keep it, my alt has Leadership 5 plus all the basic Warfare skills (Armor, Shield, Skirmish, Info, Mining) to 5 as well, for the passive boosts - which are going away with this patch. She has no other reason to have those skills and they are now a waste for her.

What I'd like to see for this (and potentially for other rearrangements in the future) is to utilize the Skill Extractor code mechanics to allow removal of select skills into a pool of Unallocated SP (as opposed to one or more Skill Injectors) for reassignment into other areas more relevant to the character.

I understand the point - it just doesn't apply. The skills still exist and still have an in game use. The fact that the no longer fit the needs of a certain subset of players is not grounds for skill reimbursement and never has been. They made the choice to make that investment, and they received the benefits of it at that time. No where in the rules does it say that the choices you make now will remain good ones forever. I was pissed when they lowered the pre requisite for racial carriers from racial battleship 5 to whatever the heck it is now (3 or 4). Especially as I had trained not one or two, but all four freaking carriers.

But having battleship 5 isn't useless. I can still get a benefit from it. I choose not to use it because I don't fly battleships, but the skill itself still provides utility. The same thing applies here. The leadership skills still provide a utility. The allow you to use the basic Command Burst modules, and open up the path to the advanced leadership skills. The wing command skill still provides you the ability to manage multiple squads in a fleet. The fact that any one player, or even a whole group of them, has decided they will no longer use that skill is not CCP's problem. That choice lies solely with the player.