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Dev blog: Command Bursts and the New World of Fleet Boosting

First post First post
Author
Jasper Sinclair
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
#1581 - 2016-10-26 12:48:27 UTC
I neglected to look during yesterday's mass test - does the tool tip for the burst module show the effect duration as opposed to/in addition to the module cycle time? I believe the current effects applied to ownship icon that appears over the capacitor does say the duration of the applied effect, but that could be from someone else. I want to know the duration of MY burst, even if it is not the most powerful burst of its type currently active.

It would still be nice if the range of the burst were depicted as a sphere instead of a circle.

Referring back to a post I made here a while back, please consider updating the fleet window with new, useful capabilities now that the passive boosts hierarchy is obsolete. Some ideas I had include:

- allow FC to designate fleet members that are allowed to broadcast targets
- allow FC to turn on/off the ability of Wing/Squad commanders to warp their unit
- allow the ability to designate "secondary" unit commanders that will automatically be promoted if their unit commander leaves fleet
- increase the size of the field that names the wings/squads
- allow the ability to set entire wings/squads to accept/not accept fleet warps

Oh, and you can delete the "regroup" command. It's evil.

Former Blue CEO, admirer of Caracals (and Tristans)

Soleil Fournier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1582 - 2016-10-26 13:02:54 UTC
The T2 module gives a nice bonus compared to the T1, but it doesn't affect duration. I think the max duration on the T2 module should be increased to 3 minutes.
Demolishar
United Aggression
#1583 - 2016-10-26 13:10:41 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Finally, the burst strength on the Titans was making them a bit too much of a jack of all trades. We are leaving the ability to operate multiple bursts and the range bonus, but removing the burst strength bonus from titans so that we won't be pushing people towards all-titan fleets. Of course the Titans all have the ability to use their own unique Phenomena Generators (previously known as Titan Effect Generators) which give them their own special capability for influencing the battlefield.


At least give the titans the same bonus as a supercarrier. They already have to give up either a gun, a DD, or an effect generator to be able to fit a burst module.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#1584 - 2016-10-26 13:22:40 UTC
I just read through this as I'm now interested in command ships and not sure if this was mentioned earlier: Shouldn't the dedicated command ships have the same role bonus as the force auxiliary, and carriers etc have the 100% bonus listed for Command ships? It would make more sense that the dedicated command vessels have a better bonus than combat vessels.
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#1585 - 2016-10-26 13:30:59 UTC  |  Edited by: HandelsPharmi
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I just read through this as I'm now interested in command ships and not sure if this was mentioned earlier: Shouldn't the dedicated command ships have the same role bonus as the force auxiliary, and carriers etc have the 100% bonus listed for Command ships? It would make more sense that the dedicated command vessels have a better bonus than combat vessels.


The range is bigger, yes, but the effect STRENGTH is smaller compared to CS.

Command Ship
Can fit two Command Burst modules
+3% bonus to two racial types of Command Burst Effect Strength and Duration per skill level
Role Bonus: +100% bonus to Command Burst Area of Effect Range


Carrier, Supercarrier and Force Auxiliary
Can fit two Command Burst modules
+1% bonus to two racial types of Command Burst Effect Strength and Duration per skill level
Role Bonus: +200% bonus to Command Burst Area of Effect Range
Skyler Hawk
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#1586 - 2016-10-26 13:34:39 UTC
Gotta say, the change to the Evasive Maneuvers link seems very heavy-handed. All of the other boosts have remained close to their current strengths - for example, the current Shield Harmonizing/Passive Defence links increase resists by 25.9% if fielded on a max-skilled CS with the correct mindlink in, whereas the new Shield Harmonizing/Armor Energizing links increase resists by 21.6%. However, the Evasive Maneuvers link is going from -34.5% sig on a max-skilled CS (plus a 15% improvement to agility from the mindlink) to -16.7% (plus a 16.7% boost to agility). Sig reduction is certainly a powerful effect, but not necessarily more powerful than increasing resists or reducing rep cycle times, and certainly (IMO) not so much more powerful as to justify being whacked so much harder than the other tanking links.
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#1587 - 2016-10-26 14:21:38 UTC
Signature radius bonus is less than before, I agree with you.


But you had a passive bonus of 15 % to shield or armor (slot 10 imp)

or a combined bonus of armor / shield with agility / targeting range
Navy Mindlinks...


Now you will receive less resistance but more shield / armor HP (15 % vs. +21.56%)
Zetakya
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#1588 - 2016-10-26 14:51:51 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks, have another update for you all with a few more changes to the plan.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, we have been giving some thought to the feedback we've received in this thread about the Evasive Maneuvers burst. We agree with the argument that signature radius is an extremely powerful bonus, however we think that converting the burst entirely into something else (like agility) would be a bit too much of a nerf.

So we're adjusting the Evasive Maneuvers burst to provide 6% bonuses to both signature radius and agility, rather than the previous 12% bonus to signature radius. We think this will help ensure that the Evasive Maneuvers burst remains powerful and thematic without being too overpowered.


Can you add to Evasive Maneuvers as a compensating factor an effect that increases a ships Warp Speed to 3 AU/s if it is normally less than that?
Arronicus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1589 - 2016-10-26 14:56:15 UTC
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks, have another update for you all with a few more changes to the plan.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, we have been giving some thought to the feedback we've received in this thread about the Evasive Maneuvers burst. We agree with the argument that signature radius is an extremely powerful bonus, however we think that converting the burst entirely into something else (like agility) would be a bit too much of a nerf.

So we're adjusting the Evasive Maneuvers burst to provide 6% bonuses to both signature radius and agility, rather than the previous 12% bonus to signature radius. We think this will help ensure that the Evasive Maneuvers burst remains powerful and thematic without being too overpowered.

We are also increasing the strength of the Leadership, Wing Command and Fleet Command range bonuses by 16.7%, 20% and 25% respectively (new values will be 7% per level for Leadership, 6% per level for WC and 5% per level for FC).
This helps boost the value of these skills a fair bit while also extending the max possible burst range by 12.5%.

Finally, the burst strength on the Titans was making them a bit too much of a jack of all trades. We are leaving the ability to operate multiple bursts and the range bonus, but removing the burst strength bonus from titans so that we won't be pushing people towards all-titan fleets. Of course the Titans all have the ability to use their own unique Phenomena Generators (previously known as Titan Effect Generators) which give them their own special capability for influencing the battlefield.


Any news on the bonus for mining equipment, in the thread some people made suggestions.


People made suggestions, but the mining foreman boosts seem REALLY well balanced already as is. I'd take the lack of CCP making revisions to them to mean that they understand that the mining foreman bursts are in a good place despite the odd complaint.
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#1590 - 2016-10-26 15:41:45 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
CCP Fozzie wrote:

We are also increasing the strength of the Leadership, Wing Command and Fleet Command range bonuses by 16.7%, 20% and 25% respectively (new values will be 7% per level for Leadership, 6% per level for WC and 5% per level for FC).
This helps boost the value of these skills a fair bit while also extending the max possible burst range by 12.5%.



That's cool, I guess. My main problem with that whole setup, though, is just the sheer volume of range-increasing skills. First of all, it's just boring. 3 consecutive skills that do the same exact thing, in the same exact way, with the only difference being the magnitude. There aren't many places this exist in the game without at least some small qualitative differentiation between them. Gunnery/Rapid firing and MLO/Rapid launch are all that come to mind. Other skills tend to differentiate on the breadth of their application.

The damage skills, for instance:

Surgical strike - damage bonus to all turrets.
Medium Energy Turret - Applies only to medium sized lasers
Medium pulse spec - Applies only to T2, medium-sized pulse lasers.


There is also an inherent diminishing level of value on further range increases, as most fleets are just never going to be -that- spread out. Another 12.5% maximum range is not necessarily another 12.5% of range-related "value". Sure, the skill makes a number bigger, but since the realized effect of that number is boolean (Close enough to receive bonus? True/false), and the previous ceiling was already "big enough" that in most cases, it's hard to care overly much about the increase. Mining fleets seem like the largest beneficiary, here.

Is there not something more interesting you could do with at least one of those skills? Maybe consolidate the range bonus down to using just two of them and do something else - anything else - with the third?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
#1591 - 2016-10-26 16:04:54 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

We are also increasing the strength of the Leadership, Wing Command and Fleet Command range bonuses by 16.7%, 20% and 25% respectively (new values will be 7% per level for Leadership, 6% per level for WC and 5% per level for FC).
This helps boost the value of these skills a fair bit while also extending the max possible burst range by 12.5%.



That's cool, I guess. My main problem with that whole setup, though, is just the sheer volume of range-increasing skills. First of all, it's just boring. 3 consecutive skills that do the same exact thing, in the same exact way, with the only difference being the magnitude. There aren't many places this exist in the game without at least some small qualitative differentiation between them. Gunnery/Rapid firing and MLO/Rapid launch are all that come to mind. Other skills tend to differentiate on the breadth of their application.



I am already hearing experienced FCs talking about extracting FC 5 because it isn't worth the sp, and the sp could be better used elsewhere or just sold.

And there still isn't an effect with the mining boosts to compensate for the loss of the +15% to mining yield presently provided by Mining Foreman V + Mining Foreman Mindlink.

Oktura Ostus
THE CORP WITH NO NAME
#1592 - 2016-10-26 16:54:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Oktura Ostus
JTK Fotheringham wrote:
As there's a consumption item involved, I think a corresponding cycle time bonus is merited - so that cycle time and burst duration match.

It just seems a bit of a perception disconnect - I mean, my blaster ROF might increase, so my DPS will increase, but so will my ammo consumption. Why can't Fleet boost bursts work the same way?

/JTK


Please, don't. It's not like DPS on practice. There is only tiny moment when you apply bonuses to teammates, and if one of your teammate (or even you) failed to be in needed range at this moment, he will fly without bonuses next cycle. In quick kitting fights it happens a lot.

From this point of view I'd like to have booster cycle small enough so I could reapply bonuses to teammates as quick as possible if he missed previous cycle, and the duration of booster effect to be long enough so teammate could miss one-two cycles and still fly with bonuses

On practice on sisi now it works like this:
- newbie command destroyer has cycle 1 minute and apply time 1 minute, so teammates have to catch every cycle to fly with boost.
- skilled command destroyer has cycle 1 min and apply time ~2 mins, so teammates could miss one cycle but still fly with boost all time.

It's balanced I think ...
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#1593 - 2016-10-26 16:56:41 UTC
Balder Verdandi wrote:
Orca running boosts = no MWD. That means two cycles for the 500mn AB.

If you knew how to fly the Orca, you'd know this won't help much but puts it into the same category of "Mining Preservation".



I'm not sure I follow why this matters. An Orca with a Higgs Anchor has proven to be pretty awesome in my testing.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

TomyLobo
Negative Density
D3nse Matter
#1594 - 2016-10-26 17:01:07 UTC
Why are the tanking bonuses not being left as they are atm? Links are coming on grid and they are getting worse. At the very least, they should stay the same given all the totally unnecessary burst mechanics you've added.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#1595 - 2016-10-26 17:02:45 UTC
Regan Rotineque wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
have you tried ORE stations?



There are no Ore stations in high sec that I am aware of...... did CCP put them into ORE null only ?


Yes, you have to fly out to Outer Ring to get them, just like with the Orca and Rorqual BPO. It's super easy in a travel Interceptor. If you choose to use anything other than a travel Interceptor, I suggest you fly through F7C. That's the best way for me to kill you.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

TomyLobo
Negative Density
D3nse Matter
#1596 - 2016-10-26 17:08:38 UTC  |  Edited by: TomyLobo
HandelsPharmi wrote:
The 15 % effect of your slot 10 implant will be lost.
With all the moduls (T2), ship boni and implants, your boost will be the same compared with the boost at the moment, without the 15 % of the mining forman implant.

The old warfare specialist skill that gave you a 50% bonus to the warfare link bonus has been removed with nothing to replace it. Hence, the net decrease in bonuses all across the board.
Jo Jl
Doomheim
#1597 - 2016-10-26 17:09:09 UTC
killing off the reasons we might play, CCP?

you brought this command burst(nerfing passive stuff) and its not even hit transquility yet and your already nerfing it.YOu have killed ships in doing this ,instead of Making them shine.practically the only reason to have someone in a fleet is for this boosting ability.Why push this button every minute?it isn't fun at all.Now we have Rorqaul Drop fleets ,lol,soon it will be roaming Orcas .You really need to stop with the half baked schemes.I really would like a refund of skill points,its not even worth bringing up the dead horse,but you tricked people into thinking these skills are something we will need,and its not.Alot of people have given you feedback,and still ,you seem to think your right.

YOU should just list the ships and tell us how You want Us to play/fly them...which one is ok to mine in,which one is ok to put a cloaking device on.I am really tired of playing a game that is not producing,you maybe recycling,renaming,'recoding' ,taking away from, but its not producing. Operation Failline should be the name cause its not Ascension,unless you like things going up in smoke or into the heavens,more like Decension.
Thogn
Republic Logistics II
#1598 - 2016-10-26 18:12:10 UTC
Englisch bleibt für mich eine Fremdsprache. :-) please be aware of that

a) Let us assume for a second - that I have all the skillz for the old system. // Pilots, there should be many, have invested heavily to reach the status. // You want to balance their whatsoever losses as well.

b) Your statement "Activating a Command Burst will generate a weapons timer and therefore prevent the boosting ship from jumping through gates or docking for one minute." Now - that's interesting. Maybe it's only me - but a minute - I mean an entire minute - really, that can be an ultra-long time in New Eden. Think about a moving fleet or an escort-job for something valuable. They do what in future ... they can't jump into the next system ... without leaving their booster behind. To me : a No No - a minute is way too long. My opinion : 30 secs .. will be already tricky ... but could work. Needs more discussion ... o7
Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
#1599 - 2016-10-26 18:18:49 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Regan Rotineque wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
have you tried ORE stations?



There are no Ore stations in high sec that I am aware of...... did CCP put them into ORE null only ?


Yes, you have to fly out to Outer Ring to get them, just like with the Orca and Rorqual BPO. It's super easy in a travel Interceptor. If you choose to use anything other than a travel Interceptor, I suggest you fly through F7C. That's the best way for me to kill you.



I'll be sure to wave to you from my nullified/cloaky t3 cruiser. Cool

Sylvia Kildare
Kinetic Fury
#1600 - 2016-10-26 18:21:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Sylvia Kildare
Jo Jl wrote:
practically the only reason to have someone in a fleet is for this boosting ability.Why push this button every minute?it isn't fun at all.


The only reason to have a boosting ship in the fleet is for the boosting ability, you mean? ... well, yeah, but that was the same before this change, so...

We won't have to push the button every minute. It's a module that auto-cycles, same as the current ones, same as most high-slot modules. you don't have to micromanage it manually unless you want to (aka flipping off the auto-repeat switch).

Thogn wrote:
b) Your statement "Activating a Command Burst will generate a weapons timer and therefore prevent the boosting ship from jumping through gates or docking for one minute." Now - that's interesting. Maybe it's only me - but a minute - I mean an entire minute - really, that can be an ultra-long time in New Eden. Think about a moving fleet or an escort-job for something valuable. They do what in future ... they can't jump into the next system ... without leaving their booster behind. To me : a No No - a minute is way too long. My opinion : 30 secs .. will be already tricky ... but could work. Needs more discussion ... o7


Tell us Marauder pilots about it. ;)

Most fleets shouldn't be needing to boost while landing on a gate, so... the only tricky part is with super-fast fleets in systems with gates very close together. In a PVP fleet, though, FCs often call for fleets to hold together on a gate anyway, will just have to do that now and then for the booster's timer to elapse before gate is green and jump jump jump.