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Warfare & Tactics

 
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CSM Minutes on Faction Warfare
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Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#21 - 2012-01-17 23:28:39 UTC
So am I going to have to go to high-sec to get away from 0.0 politiking now?

And FW isn't about absolutely and unequivocally crushing your opponent; that is what it has tended towards in the past year and in my opinion has been detrimental to the casual and gentlemanly small-gang/solo atmosphere FW engenders.

In FW, the goal is "fun" which means good fights. In Nullsec, the goal is "winning" which means destroying the opponent and taking their stuff until you have a new opponent that you can destroy and take their stuff.

The militias rely on their counter-part(s), installing a microcosm of 0.0, "Nullsec-lite" per se, is an advance in the opposite direction of what FW has been about.

Maybe this is just my opinion; though it was always more fun when there would be escalations from the FCs, multiple engagements over several hours where each side would ship-up just enough to have a good chance against the opponent, not one single ****-blowing engagement where everything gets dropped in the intent to absolutely crush the opponent. vOv What?

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#22 - 2012-01-17 23:33:02 UTC
It really shows how little CCP actually reads this forums, time and time again FW pilots state that they dont want some watered down Null Sov. That null and all it "leaders" playing Julius Caesar are not want we want, need or like. That endless bashing, and ship up = win is more likely to have us log off and not get stuck in.

FW pilots have been to null, have dealt with the Caesars and left. FW pilots like being able to undock in a thrasher and fight in minor plexes knowning four battlecruisers are not on the way. FW pilots like 2 on 4 fights, 5 on 5, 10 on 10. They like being able to play for a few hours or not.

Null is not our end game, Null is not appealing to us at all.

Do not ccp, turn our War into thier test bed. Our War is OURS, Your constant drive to move more and more people in to null is becoming annoying. We dont want to be their, stop pushing its game on us. We chose not to play it, respect that for once.

FIX FW, don't merge FW into Null Sec.

Its likely I've just wasted my time, cause no doubt no one from CCP reads this **** anyway. Who knows, maybe a Dev will reply but highly doubtful.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#23 - 2012-01-18 03:15:30 UTC
Quote:
CCP would like to inject some of the drama that surrounds the CSM election system into FW, by having some sort of in-game election of militia leaders/admirals. This would help move some of the 0.0 style politics/revenge/spying into FW.
LOL at Militia elections. bad, bad, bad idea.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#24 - 2012-01-18 03:50:55 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Super Chair wrote:
Quote:
CCP would like to inject some of the drama that surrounds the CSM election system into FW, by having some
sort of in-game election of militia leaders/admirals


Fleetwarp sujarento for president


A main in FW, two alts in the opposing militia. This isn't just conjecture that alts will show up, I already run into the situation where I start harrassing a caldari mission runner and then his gallente main messages me to let him run the missions...

WTF is CCP thinking?
Cromwell Savage
The Screaming Seagulls
#25 - 2012-01-18 04:00:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Cromwell Savage
FW =/= Dull Sec...

To treat us with the same mindset or as some "stepping stone" is to do it WRONG.


I am not in FW to pretend to be in 0.0....
Marz Ghola
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-01-18 05:16:07 UTC

That was a long list of seriously garbage ideas. Any time FW players want anything to do with null, we go to 0.0 and farm them like the fat ratters they are.

Please remember your (ccp) pledge about Eve going back in the right direction...these proposals are not the right direction.

Jans Jagerblitzen and several other FW players gave you all the info you needed to make FW into an exciting venue which would allow PVP'ers to avoid the "drama" and nonsense of nullbearitis.

Reading through the lines of your FW minutes screams of ccp trying to placate the whiney b!tch nullbears with any morsel possible just to try to shut their gobs for the time being. X

cack...that is all. clean this mess up.Evil
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#27 - 2012-01-18 05:19:24 UTC
sYnc Vir wrote:
It really shows how little CCP actually reads this forums, time and time again FW pilots state that they dont want some watered down Null Sov. That null and all it "leaders" playing Julius Caesar are not want we want, need or like. That endless bashing, and ship up = win is more likely to have us log off and not get stuck in.

FW pilots have been to null, have dealt with the Caesars and left. FW pilots like being able to undock in a thrasher and fight in minor plexes knowning four battlecruisers are not on the way. FW pilots like 2 on 4 fights, 5 on 5, 10 on 10. They like being able to play for a few hours or not.

Null is not our end game, Null is not appealing to us at all.

Do not ccp, turn our War into thier test bed. Our War is OURS, Your constant drive to move more and more people in to null is becoming annoying. We dont want to be their, stop pushing its game on us. We chose not to play it, respect that for once.

FIX FW, don't merge FW into Null Sec.

Its likely I've just wasted my time, cause no doubt no one from CCP reads this **** anyway. Who knows, maybe a Dev will reply but highly doubtful.


I'm....i'm upvoting an all italics post....this...this feels so wrong!


A well deserved +1 though.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#28 - 2012-01-18 06:25:38 UTC
sYnc Vir wrote:
It really shows how little CCP actually reads this forums, time and time again FW pilots state that they dont want some watered down Null Sov.


Actually, like it or not one of the consistent whines from many with-in FW here on the forums has always been plexing means nothing as you really gain or lose nothing. There have been countless people asking CCP to make various changes to plexes to cause advantage to one side or other for capturing the system.

This means we can't really just bash CCP on these ideas because many have supported and asked for it , regardless if the rest of us like it or not.

I know I poke fun at them, but it is the truth many have asked for things as excessive as no docking rights for WTs in friendly occupied systems.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#29 - 2012-01-18 06:29:22 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Super Chair wrote:
Quote:
CCP would like to inject some of the drama that surrounds the CSM election system into FW, by having some
sort of in-game election of militia leaders/admirals


Fleetwarp sujarento for president


A main in FW, two alts in the opposing militia. This isn't just conjecture that alts will show up, I already run into the situation where I start harrassing a caldari mission runner and then his gallente main messages me to let him run the missions...

WTF is CCP thinking?


Lol
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#30 - 2012-01-18 06:35:54 UTC
I'm all for there being consequences for failing to defend a system and benefits for capturing one. I'm not for the complete removal of the plexing mechanics. Tweaking, sure. Refer to my first post in this thread regarding my take on the whole deal with making all ship sizes relevent.

These "elections" are going to be a load of garbage unless safegaurds are in place to, you know, make sure that those who are participants (note simply members of a militia, not mission farmers, not 3,000 goons who joined FW for a day to vote an alt to remotely siphon isk, but actual participants) in faction war.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#31 - 2012-01-18 07:06:07 UTC
lol how it looks Goons want to change fw
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#32 - 2012-01-18 07:44:35 UTC
Deen Wispa wrote:
He doesn't get it. High level organization brings high level espionage, manipulation, and metagaming. Everybody wants to win, ya know. Which is essentially nullsec; do whatever it takes to bring down your competitor.


You do understand that FW is already full of espionage, metagaming and all other things associated with "srs spaceship buziness" of 0.0 and only time it has not been such was in the first couple of months of existence.
Byron D
No Duck's Allowed
#33 - 2012-01-18 08:53:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Byron D
Mandatory :

Terribad ideeas tbh, try moar fail sov mechanics elsewhere please.


In all seriousness, I think CSM and CCP are under the impression that FW is full of noobs preparing to make the step twoards the 0.0 "endgame", when in fact most of us have been there, decided that it's pure **** to wait 4 hrs on a titan just to bridge and bash structures and came back to "undock, pvp for the sake of it, dock back up" .

As for the elections, I thought introducing alliances will pretty much allow ppl to elect their own leaders by , well... forming alliances. Plus, FW was supposed to be free access for everyone, introducing discretionary leaders can't really help that in any way shape or form. Imagine if I'd win some sort of elections, I'd freaking kick or ban from fleets anyone who's unable to fly a t2 fit abaddon as a bare minimum. How would that help ?

A lot of people came to FW for a no drama, no politics, instant pvp 2 jumps away environment. And those who want drama and politics in FW can create them without new mechanics, trust me. SO if you want to improve FW, improve it on those principles , not on some testground/recruiting ground for null.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#34 - 2012-01-18 09:09:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Hidden Snake
Hidden Snake wrote:
lol how it looks Goons want to change fw



to make it clear ... Goons became new BOB with ability to manipulate CCP via CSM. They see FW as a valuable not yet fully utilized resource of isk and high quality gunmen, they can use. Unfortunately CCP became afraid of their market manipulation attempts (which was just Mittanis political demonstration of weakness) so they allow CSM to take power over some parts of game .

I will say something:

"This game should be about allowing new entities to rise and challenge the old one through the game itself. Not to old dinos to grew in power more and subdue every entity rising via metagaming of this style."

CCP listen to people who live in lowsec and NPC null (FW, pies, antipies, indies) and dont bow before nullbears, because every day i see u getting more and more used by them. Do u really need another BOB scandal to happen.

BTW proposition of alliances in FW was to allow them, but not to allow them to hold sov (so the big nullbears will be out of game). Low sec is nearly same or maybe even bigger pvp playground then null and nobody wants naptrains and megablobs like in null (sov).

I would rather join Gals and Minnies then to allow Goons to metagame shape FW.
Silence iKillYouu
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#35 - 2012-01-18 09:31:28 UTC
Ive been in FW for 3 years or more.
Any change will be good.

At the moment FW is gang green and needs to be cut of or have radical surgery.

All month logging in to empty FW systems and not much happening in channels.

EVE Mail me i dont check forums often.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#36 - 2012-01-18 09:35:00 UTC
Silence iKillYouu wrote:
Ive been in FW for 3 years or more.
Any change will be good.

At the moment FW is gang green and needs to be cut of or have radical surgery.

All month logging in to empty FW systems and not much happening in channels.



u probably doing it wrong (for last 3 years) .... we having fun and current change of plexes was step in the right direction ... what is step in wrong direction is to make FW another null ground - well actually turn low and NPC null into another sov null.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2012-01-18 09:49:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
Hidden Snake wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:
lol how it looks Goons want to change fw



to make it clear ... Goons became new BOB with ability to manipulate CCP via CSM. They see FW as a valuable not yet fully utilized resource of isk and high quality gunmen, they can use. Unfortunately CCP became afraid of their market manipulation attempts (which was just Mittanis political demonstration of weakness) so they allow CSM to take power over some parts of game .


lol look at this post. just look at it.

yo, what system you stage out of, i'll put some tinfoil on contracts for you.
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#38 - 2012-01-18 11:16:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Rel'k Bloodlor
Thanks CCP!
For the shitsandwatch that will be alliances and a pile of pipe dreams that will at best take years or worst never happen.
I also like the part were they turn a feature that we use in to there testing for sov warfare, yay cuz were all just here to learn how to sov right guys?
You guys all glad they fix FW finally after all this time.Roll

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#39 - 2012-01-18 12:10:00 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
It really shows how little CCP actually reads this forums, time and time again FW pilots state that they dont want some watered down Null Sov.


Actually, like it or not one of the consistent whines from many with-in FW here on the forums has always been plexing means nothing as you really gain or lose nothing. There have been countless people asking CCP to make various changes to plexes to cause advantage to one side or other for capturing the system.

This means we can't really just bash CCP on these ideas because many have supported and asked for it , regardless if the rest of us like it or not.

I know I poke fun at them, but it is the truth many have asked for things as excessive as no docking rights for WTs in friendly occupied systems.



Yes you will find an occassional bad post asking for no docking rights in an occupied system. But by and large such excessive consequences have been rejected by most people in favor of more nuanced ideas.

And in just about every thread for "consequences" someone would ask that ccp actually fix the plexing mechanic *before* adding consequences to it. And by "fix" I do not mean "throw it away. " I mean tweak it. If anyone were to propose that we use some sort of sov warfare mechanic for fw they would be told the same thing ccp is now being told - this is a bad idea.

Its true we left ccp allot of rope to hang themselves. fw players have not really stood behind any particular idea of how fw plexing should be fixed. So yeah many complained while offering nothing but very vague notions of what they want. So we get this abomination.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#40 - 2012-01-18 12:14:25 UTC
Silence iKillYouu wrote:
Ive been in FW for 3 years or more.
Any change will be good.

At the moment FW is gang green and needs to be cut of or have radical surgery.

All month logging in to empty FW systems and not much happening in channels.


Then join a sov holding alliance now.

Thats where they are going with this. Why wait for the change?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815