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118.9 - General feedback (PC)

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Jorr Meditir
Embers Children
#61 - 2016-10-11 19:52:02 UTC
Dont often post, but now im here to pay my respect to the dead.

So now CCP, when you saved in on the workload of the maintenance of the IGB, can you please use those hours to implement every single feature it provided that you didnt?
Dotlan, tripwire etc?
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2016-10-11 19:52:31 UTC
Kasia Kash wrote:
FraXy wrote:

Easily would be having an option to set a default displayed time to show, but from 5 minutes right clicking just about everything that is not the case.
Market items are set as 30 day default and any slider changes you make doesn't carry over to other items.

I don't know about the rest of the people trying to trade, but manually setting the time for ALL items whenever I feel like looking at different time displays is not what I would call intuitive and easy.

TL;DR:

Add back the drop-down box to universally change the time displayed by default and while you're at it allow the option to add custom times.

Thank you.


Totally agree, the sliding thing its a pain in the *ss. A box to customize colors would be a def +1 too

Edit: an option to remove the animation please, its nice but it gets into annoying very soon



remove animation under the sproket on the right side of the market screen for settings.


Also, the slider doesnt go down to 5 days, max is 9.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2016-10-11 19:55:08 UTC
Domain's Eye wrote:
I usually don't wish terrible things to people i don't know, but those in charge of the new market graphs should be fire. Simple as that.

To think that you actually put (very needed elsewhere) ressources there, to screw up something that nobody asked you to change, is simply infuriating.

The left axis makes no sense, at all. I can't see the current day's dot, regardless of how much i tinker and screw this f*ucking slide. I'm forced to "Show Table" every single time. I can't set a default size other than 30 days. The 365 days size is flawed as many already stated.

New pale colors inside a very dark window, same kind of crap you pulled for the "New Map" (forever in Beta) which is an absolute mess. You can hardly see anything, and with the gigantic failure of the left axis, the whole thing is simply not usable as it is.

I'd highly encourage you to look at that quickly, otherwise i'll quit EVE once again, for good and forever this time.



Dont worry, I'm sure they'll fix it as they have fixed the new map.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
Kasia Kash
Raging Bull TC
#64 - 2016-10-11 20:01:58 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
Kasia Kash wrote:
FraXy wrote:

Easily would be having an option to set a default displayed time to show, but from 5 minutes right clicking just about everything that is not the case.
Market items are set as 30 day default and any slider changes you make doesn't carry over to other items.

I don't know about the rest of the people trying to trade, but manually setting the time for ALL items whenever I feel like looking at different time displays is not what I would call intuitive and easy.

TL;DR:

Add back the drop-down box to universally change the time displayed by default and while you're at it allow the option to add custom times.

Thank you.


Totally agree, the sliding thing its a pain in the *ss. A box to customize colors would be a def +1 too

Edit: an option to remove the animation please, its nice but it gets into annoying very soon



remove animation under the sproket on the right side of the market screen for settings.


Also, the slider doesnt go down to 5 days, max is 9.


Ty m8 didnt notice that
Benevolant Khan
Doomheim
#65 - 2016-10-11 20:51:25 UTC
i just dont see how these come close to replacing POS,

1) POS costs come to on average 1bn ISK fully fitted for a large this has nearing on 60m hp (between shield armor hull), to get an equivalent HP once they are gone and only citadels / engineering complexes remain - this figure goes up to 30bn+

2) POS are widely used for supers to stage from - so far the only thing produced that could stage supers is a keepstar....so again 1bn vs 140bn now...which is frankly INSANE.

3) vulnerability timers on engineering complexes i.e. structure less able to defend themselves...is HIGHER than citadel timers??? that seems to be the wrong way round? the vast majority of small corporations running manufacturing or whatever in POS are generally quite small corps is the idea to just do away with ppl in small groups and just have very very large alliances playing the game? Because it seems like if you want to have the same level of defence that you did in the past (once POS exit the game), that is going to come at a significantly higher price tag and a significantly higher risk of getting the sort of attention you probably dont want.
Amber Solaire
COMA Holdings
Cosmic Maniacs
#66 - 2016-10-11 21:48:19 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Ivan Beer wrote:
not all the burst bpo's are available on the market, only the armor.....

They aren't all in the same place, they will be spread across NPC space in appropriate places :)



Apparently, they cannot be found anywhere on the markets (search does not even recognise it)

Nothing in contracts either

(I searched more than one region, nothing found.....)
Antheria
VVV Enterprises
#67 - 2016-10-11 22:51:09 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Ivan Beer wrote:
not all the burst bpo's are available on the market, only the armor.....

They aren't all in the same place, they will be spread across NPC space in appropriate places :)


This is a really disappointing response from someone who is supposed to be serving "us" - the customers!

Perhaps you could let a few of us in on what is obviously your little secret.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#68 - 2016-10-11 23:29:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Sobaan Tali
Atrox Wagner wrote:
@ccp what happened to Crimson Harvest event ? stated and promised in today's release http://updates.eveonline.com/date/2016-10-11/ ?


18th. Not 11th. Admittedly they should never have even mentioned the SKINs on that page, but read it more carefully: it merely state that the SKINs will be available when the Harvest is started, not promise anything for today therein.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Linoire Ironblade
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#69 - 2016-10-12 01:42:06 UTC
Benevolant Khan wrote:
i just dont see how these come close to replacing POS,

1) POS costs come to on average 1bn ISK fully fitted for a large this has nearing on 60m hp (between shield armor hull), to get an equivalent HP once they are gone and only citadels / engineering complexes remain - this figure goes up to 30bn+

2) POS are widely used for supers to stage from - so far the only thing produced that could stage supers is a keepstar....so again 1bn vs 140bn now...which is frankly INSANE.

3) vulnerability timers on engineering complexes i.e. structure less able to defend themselves...is HIGHER than citadel timers??? that seems to be the wrong way round? the vast majority of small corporations running manufacturing or whatever in POS are generally quite small corps is the idea to just do away with ppl in small groups and just have very very large alliances playing the game? Because it seems like if you want to have the same level of defence that you did in the past (once POS exit the game), that is going to come at a significantly higher price tag and a significantly higher risk of getting the sort of attention you probably dont want.


1) An Astrahus costs most corporations with supers ~1B ISK. They result in more engagements rather than spending an hour setting up a POS. People are aware of their existence a full 24 hours before they're online. That gives one side the time to coordinate its destruction, and the other side something to actually defend.

2) POS, in this case, are just bubbles of protection that supers cyno to. Even an Astrahus can tether supers. And you can "Log off safely" while tethered; effectively the same thing as the bubble.

3) Basically, they're killing auto-defending structures. I had a POS in j-space for nearly a year. It got kills even while I was away from the game for a couple of weeks. Their goal, again, was engagement by players to defend their structures. A small gang COULD take out a POS, but an undefended POS is a hot mess to defang.


The problem is - and this is where we probably agree - EVE has always been a game that did appeal to players who prefer to keep tight-knit and small groups; or even entirely solo (1 man corps). Forcing engagement on people that have largely tried to avoid it doesn't hurt new players as they'll never know it existed.

While new players are valuable, they're hypothetical. Whereas I know dozens of "1 man corps" that have been playing for years. These changes effectively throw proven subscriptions right under the bus in favor of the hypothetical unaffected new players (note I'm being quite clear here about who is actually impacted).

The wrecking crews out in EVE seem to really hate the thought of not being able to small gang something to death. And CCP has answered the call.
Dr Moe Dallocort
Sword and Shield RD
#70 - 2016-10-12 02:02:33 UTC
Yep - I have the equipment to setup a POS for short things I need done in INDY work - only up for a few days to get stuff done I need there. Why would I want something bigger for such small time periods? So the new stations are useful; but not what I am looking for. Also the cost and defense of POS for R&D is much better - so there is no real upside to that part. The increase in Overhead on the INDY platforms make them a poor choice. And what sort of rebate will I get for my faction BPC on POS hardware?

the new graphic mods kill a lot of frame rates + notice big issues on delays in looking at BPO's.

Also the location of some of the BPO's for the charges are a bit too restrictive (mining)

Last, 1/2 my tunes have issues bringing up the PI interface while instation; I verified the files, etc. No errors in the log files
if I undock I can work PI, hmm, seems in the ship spinning location I can run PI interface.
Dominous Nolen
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#71 - 2016-10-12 04:14:12 UTC
Atrox Wagner wrote:
@ccp what happened to Crimson Harvest event ? stated and promised in today's release http://updates.eveonline.com/date/2016-10-11/ ?


As per updates.eveonline.com it appears to have been pushed back a week

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood
Benevolant Khan
Doomheim
#72 - 2016-10-12 06:11:12 UTC
Linoire Ironblade wrote:
Benevolant Khan wrote:
i just dont see how these come close to replacing POS,

1) POS costs come to on average 1bn ISK fully fitted for a large this has nearing on 60m hp (between shield armor hull), to get an equivalent HP once they are gone and only citadels / engineering complexes remain - this figure goes up to 30bn+

2) POS are widely used for supers to stage from - so far the only thing produced that could stage supers is a keepstar....so again 1bn vs 140bn now...which is frankly INSANE.

3) vulnerability timers on engineering complexes i.e. structure less able to defend themselves...is HIGHER than citadel timers??? that seems to be the wrong way round? the vast majority of small corporations running manufacturing or whatever in POS are generally quite small corps is the idea to just do away with ppl in small groups and just have very very large alliances playing the game? Because it seems like if you want to have the same level of defence that you did in the past (once POS exit the game), that is going to come at a significantly higher price tag and a significantly higher risk of getting the sort of attention you probably dont want.


1) An Astrahus costs most corporations with supers ~1B ISK. They result in more engagements rather than spending an hour setting up a POS. People are aware of their existence a full 24 hours before they're online. That gives one side the time to coordinate its destruction, and the other side something to actually defend.

2) POS, in this case, are just bubbles of protection that supers cyno to. Even an Astrahus can tether supers. And you can "Log off safely" while tethered; effectively the same thing as the bubble.

3) Basically, they're killing auto-defending structures. I had a POS in j-space for nearly a year. It got kills even while I was away from the game for a couple of weeks. Their goal, again, was engagement by players to defend their structures. A small gang COULD take out a POS, but an undefended POS is a hot mess to defang.


The problem is - and this is where we probably agree - EVE has always been a game that did appeal to players who prefer to keep tight-knit and small groups; or even entirely solo (1 man corps). Forcing engagement on people that have largely tried to avoid it doesn't hurt new players as they'll never know it existed.

While new players are valuable, they're hypothetical. Whereas I know dozens of "1 man corps" that have been playing for years. These changes effectively throw proven subscriptions right under the bus in favor of the hypothetical unaffected new players (note I'm being quite clear here about who is actually impacted).

The wrecking crews out in EVE seem to really hate the thought of not being able to small gang something to death. And CCP has answered the call.


Good reply man

Must be honest didnt consider that aspect with astrahus - but you must admit Astrahus are very easily removed, large POS are not so easily removed - the reinforced mechanic gives any surprise attacks a chance to respond when the stront runs out - perhaps there might be space to introduce this mechanic to citadels / engineering complexes?
all for small gang warfare, blob warfare gets laggy and old fast :P

I still feel those vulnerability timers on the engineering complexes are WAY too high though - 3 hours vs 9 hours is a pretty big difference.
Cerdic Sarain
Trade and Profit
#73 - 2016-10-12 06:49:50 UTC
In the market graph the "Medium Day Price" blips are not in the correct place, however when mousing over them they jump to the correct location.

It would also be nice if the selected viewing period in the marked graph would retain the selected period (if looking at the entire last year and when the selected product is changed the graph is still displaying the entire year rather than the default 1 month).

There is also a need for a modifiable price range in the market graph or at least having the price range being defined by the displayed values (if the displayed product had some major price fluctuation in the last year then it is almost impossible get any information out of the graph)

Otherwise it looks grate and I am loving the added information in the new market graph.
Andiell Chao
The Pinecone Squad
United Federation of Conifers
#74 - 2016-10-12 08:30:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Andiell Chao
Linoire Ironblade wrote:
My brain always loses a few cells when I see a company maintaining their own browser. Both Chrome and Firefox are open source, and you can slam whatever GUI over their Web View that you please. In fact, you can just import the web view as an object and respond to simple events (i.e. clicking back, home, etc).

FYI, the in-game browser was based on an old version of WebKit.

WebKit is just a web user agent, layout engine, and JavaScript runtime. Out of the box, WebKit doesn't know how to draw anything in an EVE game window using DirectX. CCP maintains that code. To complicate matters, CCP ran WebKit in a separate process to isolate crashes. That suggests some custom IPC protocol. Just think of the rapid pace of change in WebKit, particularly 3D transforms, video, and canvas. Keeping the WebKit-EVE integration current is a lot of work!

The devs deserve kudos for this move. Removing the IGB is gutsy and the right long-term approach. I just hope CREST is up to the task. There are definitely some holes. I'm really going to miss the Dotlan radar until I find a suitable alternative. I hope CCP will dedicate some developer time to smoothing over the gaps.
Christopher Nolm
Malevelon Roe Industries
Convocation of Empyreans
#75 - 2016-10-12 08:48:12 UTC
Ok. As a ccp dev it must be really hard reading these forums. Just a wave of negativity. In actual fact I think there are probably a lot of great improvements that just aren't realised yet or need a few quick fixes to make it good. I love the game and the community so thanks guys for the hard work.

What is hurting me is the loss of the IGB. I know we've known about it for ages and we all saw it coming. The idea was that there was enough notice for 3rd party developers to adjust using CREST. The problem is that some of the tools are not being developed anymore and so there is no fix or no prospect of a fix. What I am going to find hard to live without is Dotlan. Specifically the ability to track your movement around with easily readable maps and functionality that allows you to set destinations and waypoints etc through the IGB. Before anyone says, I know I can still use it out of game but it was the in-game intergration that made it really useful.

My understanding is that Dotlan won't get updated because the Dev's for that site are not Dev'ing it. Basically Dotlan provided a tool that the game lacked but probably should have and now the game is moving on, this tool is going to be lost. From a role playing perspective, the residents of New Eden would have developed easy to read star gate maps (like Dotlan). Even 21st century humans have worked out that accurate representations of geography aren't easy to read. That's why all major city underground transportation systems are shown in a kind of abstract way with straight lines and right angles when in reality the tunnels are wavy lines connected in a way that would look a bit more like spaghetti. This is because an abstract map is easier to read. The in game map is not like that. It's realistic, which is cool but hard to navigate. In my opinion something like Dotlan maps need to be encorporated into the game and in the meantime some way to have in game access to Dotlan. Realistically that would exist in New Eden. The lack of it doesn't add interesting game play - it's just harder and more annoying without it.

Anyway. Nuff said. Don't want to be overly negative because I love you guys and what you do.
Benevolant Khan
Doomheim
#76 - 2016-10-12 09:29:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Benevolant Khan
Christopher Nolm wrote:
Ok. As a ccp dev it must be really hard reading these forums. Just a wave of negativity. In actual fact I think there are probably a lot of great improvements that just aren't realised yet or need a few quick fixes to make it good. I love the game and the community so thanks guys for the hard work.

What is hurting me is the loss of the IGB. I know we've known about it for ages and we all saw it coming. The idea was that there was enough notice for 3rd party developers to adjust using CREST. The problem is that some of the tools are not being developed anymore and so there is no fix or no prospect of a fix. What I am going to find hard to live without is Dotlan. Specifically the ability to track your movement around with easily readable maps and functionality that allows you to set destinations and waypoints etc through the IGB. Before anyone says, I know I can still use it out of game but it was the in-game intergration that made it really useful.

My understanding is that Dotlan won't get updated because the Dev's for that site are not Dev'ing it. Basically Dotlan provided a tool that the game lacked but probably should have and now the game is moving on, this tool is going to be lost. From a role playing perspective, the residents of New Eden would have developed easy to read star gate maps (like Dotlan). Even 21st century humans have worked out that accurate representations of geography aren't easy to read. That's why all major city underground transportation systems are shown in a kind of abstract way with straight lines and right angles when in reality the tunnels are wavy lines connected in a way that would look a bit more like spaghetti. This is because an abstract map is easier to read. The in game map is not like that. It's realistic, which is cool but hard to navigate. In my opinion something like Dotlan maps need to be encorporated into the game and in the meantime some way to have in game access to Dotlan. Realistically that would exist in New Eden. The lack of it doesn't add interesting game play - it's just harder and more annoying without it.

Anyway. Nuff said. Don't want to be overly negative because I love you guys and what you do.



I think it would be nothing short of amazing if they did this - though i imagine it would be quite a significant undertaking - both from a gate to perspective, and from a jump perspective. Just to add - regarding the negativity aspect - you should bare in mind that if no-one says anything then nothing changes, and i personally do feel there is a genuine issue with these citadel structures REPLACING pos - if we could keep both - and thereby allow people the CHOICE of how they wish to engage with their environment that would wash away every issue I have.
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2016-10-12 11:32:32 UTC  |  Edited by: 13kr1d1
Christopher Nolm wrote:
Ok. As a ccp dev it must be really hard reading these forums. Just a wave of negativity. In actual fact I think there are probably a lot of great improvements that just aren't realised yet or need a few quick fixes to make it good. I love the game and the community so thanks guys for the hard work.

What is hurting me is the loss of the IGB. I know we've known about it for ages and we all saw it coming. The idea was that there was enough notice for 3rd party developers to adjust using CREST. The problem is that some of the tools are not being developed anymore and so there is no fix or no prospect of a fix. What I am going to find hard to live without is Dotlan. Specifically the ability to track your movement around with easily readable maps and functionality that allows you to set destinations and waypoints etc through the IGB. Before anyone says, I know I can still use it out of game but it was the in-game intergration that made it really useful.

My understanding is that Dotlan won't get updated because the Dev's for that site are not Dev'ing it. Basically Dotlan provided a tool that the game lacked but probably should have and now the game is moving on, this tool is going to be lost. From a role playing perspective, the residents of New Eden would have developed easy to read star gate maps (like Dotlan). Even 21st century humans have worked out that accurate representations of geography aren't easy to read. That's why all major city underground transportation systems are shown in a kind of abstract way with straight lines and right angles when in reality the tunnels are wavy lines connected in a way that would look a bit more like spaghetti. This is because an abstract map is easier to read. The in game map is not like that. It's realistic, which is cool but hard to navigate. In my opinion something like Dotlan maps need to be encorporated into the game and in the meantime some way to have in game access to Dotlan. Realistically that would exist in New Eden. The lack of it doesn't add interesting game play - it's just harder and more annoying without it.

Anyway. Nuff said. Don't want to be overly negative because I love you guys and what you do.



basically like WIng Commander Privateer's map. Wasn't there a setting on the map where you could click it to go to "2D" mode and it'd flatten everything out in some animation process?

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
Christopher Nolm
Malevelon Roe Industries
Convocation of Empyreans
#78 - 2016-10-12 11:47:27 UTC
Benevolant Khan wrote:

I think it would be nothing short of amazing if they did this - though i imagine it would be quite a significant undertaking - both from a gate to perspective, and from a jump perspective. Just to add - regarding the negativity aspect - you should bare in mind that if no-one says anything then nothing changes, and i personally do feel there is a genuine issue with these citadel structures REPLACING pos - if we could keep both - and thereby allow people the CHOICE of how they wish to engage with their environment that would wash away every issue I have.


They wouldn't need to get rid of the current map. They just have a parallel map that is laid out like a London underground map for each region. You could start out basic - just add the same sort of statistics available in the current star map but in a Dotlan style format. Why not even hire Daniel Hoffend to do it for them.

Or why not have an IGB that will only access pre-approved domains - i.e. a 3rd party developer would have to request o CCP to have the IGB access their website. The strange genius about the IGB is that it allowed others to develop features of the game for them for free. I understand the point that it is resource intensive to maintain, but it may well have been saving a lot time by not needing to develop a Dotlan type feature or other tools that could be accessed through the IGB. It sort of allowed a kind of modding without actually modding. If someone develops a tool for your game, then surely it's less effort to integrate that tool than it is to develop a similar tool yourself.

Probably dumb ideas and I probably am not understanding all the issues around that.

With regards the pos removal (or market changes) - I'm not judging anyone for bringing it up or being negative. I just can empathise that reading constant negative comments might chip away at someone. I don't have much experience with those mechanics in any case so it's a learning experience for me.
Christopher Nolm
Malevelon Roe Industries
Convocation of Empyreans
#79 - 2016-10-12 11:49:27 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:


basically like WIng Commander Privateer's map. Wasn't there a setting on the map where you could click it to go to "2D" mode and it'd flatten everything out in some animation process?


Have you got a link to a screenshot?
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2016-10-12 16:01:59 UTC
Please see below some thoughts of mine on how to improve the new market chart:
(Many of these have already been stated by other players, btw.)


  1. There needs to be some way to set a default time window, or to retain the last-used window.
  2. The numbers on the y-axis need to be clearer. Multiple entries of 0.3b, 0.3b, 0.3b are not useful.
  3. The transition between scales, for example from 9,722 to 10.3k, isn't intuitive.
  4. In general it's not clear if the y-axis is showing singles, thousands, millions or billions of ISK.
  5. The negative ISK display isn't helpful.
  6. Manual scaling of the y-axis is needed. A 1000 ISK item that has a single sale of 1000k ISK renders any chart including that particular day useless. Or add the ability to exclude outliers.